the climate change conspiracy

@jb78000 (15178)
July 5, 2009 3:56pm CST
i noticed a fair number of global warming deniers in a previous discussion. if you think climate change is a hoax can you explain why you think this and where you get your information from? i'm not up to 500 posts yet so can't paste in the link but the guardian has an article on this - guardian.co.uk
2 people like this
6 responses
• United States
6 Jul 09
Wasn't there an EPA report that was hidden until after the Cap and Tax was to be voted on??? As far as Climate change goes, one just has to look at the climate latley and sunspots then read between the lines of the ultimate goal of those that are for it to see. Not saying we need to let businesses go unchecked but at the same time the crap they have been predicting since early 70's has not come true and here in Pa it's still barely warm enough to swim.
@jb78000 (15178)
6 Jul 09
climate change doesn't always work that way - i think rising sea levels and the melting in the antarctic gives a slight indication of what's happening. changing weather patterns might do that too if you've noticed them.
• United States
6 Jul 09
Yeh I noticed it was quite cold this June and the artic ice has actually expanded and the polar bears low and behold are not floating down to New York but that EPA report is Mum for some reason so we'll never know.
@jb78000 (15178)
6 Jul 09
ooh, you can be sarcastic too. global warming is happening i'm afraid and glaciers melting and breaking off at the south pole is not particularly normal. just because you can't see something is happening doesn't mean it isn't. i'm going to go along with most scientists on this one and accept it.
@dawnald (84126)
• Shingle Springs, California
6 Jul 09
I read an article recently in a Science Fiction magazine putting forward the theory that we were in a warming trend long before human carbon emissions had any effect on the environment. Of course, I have read what the other side thinks too. Not too long ago a friend of mine who is known for researching his stuff really thoroughly told me he will be writing a blog saying more or less the same thing, that the sun is just in a warming trend. Will be very interesting to read. As for me, it is clear that the climate is changing. There are measurable increases in temperature all over the globe (from what I've read - haven't personally taken any measurements lol). But what is causing it? Too many opinions on the subject and I'm not really qualified to say. But I do hope my friend is right about the panic mongers being wrong.
@N4life (851)
• United States
6 Jul 09
It is called Precautionary Principle and we all better get used to it!
1 person likes this
@jb78000 (15178)
6 Jul 09
that was sensible. as you said we know full well the climate is changing, it is almost certainly being caused by human activity but there isn't definitive proof for that. reducing emissions seems to me to be pretty reasonable, it will probably stop the climate changing too much and if not will reduce pollution anyway. anyway i hope i'm not a panic merchant, i have an interest in the environment but don't want to get people so worried they go and hide in their nuclear bomb shelter or something.
@Rollo1 (16681)
• Boston, Massachusetts
6 Jul 09
There has been no increase in global temperatures since 2001 but I guess there's no point in mentioning it. If people keep going around saying it's getting hotter, what difference does it make what the measurements actually are?
@bziebarth (228)
• United States
13 Aug 09
Some thoughts for this discussion. Is it possible for us to know every weather pattern that has ever happened on this planet? If you believe in creation than the Earth is between 10,000 and 14,000 years old. If you believe in evolution then the earth is billions of years old. To be able to predict, with certainty, what will happen in 100 years would not we need to know every weather pattern. Ok, we cannot know every weather pattern. But, if we forecast with such certainty then don't we know a good amount of past history? I was sitting in a speech given by a National Weather Service Meteorologist a couple of years ago. He was elated to announce that by drilling in the Antartic weather officials had collected 400 years of weather data. If you are a creationist that is about 2 to 4% of all historical weather data. If you are an evolutionist then it is...well let's just say well below 1% of all historical weather data. Let us use evolution some more. I love that scientists believe in evolution. It makes looking at their theories so easy. Over the hundreds of billions of years, there have been a multitude of forest fires, meteors hitting the earth and killing off entire populations of dinosaurs (so they believe), and many other catastrophes. Yet, the land has not disappeared. Life has not disappeared, people have not disappeared. Oh, there is more. The National Weather Service Meteorologist stated that the models used to predict Global Warming/Climate Change were the same models used everyday. The point was quickly brought up that these models rarely predicted accurately. He stated that it is much easier to predict what will happen 100 years from now than tomorrow. One more fact. The same meteorologist stated that four things affected global climate change; solar changes, water vapor, carbon dioxide, and atmospheric changes. Ok, no surprise there. He continued that water vapor has the most effect on global climates, however, this also is the thing that they are unable to accurately track and have very little historical data on. Since there is very little scientific data and it is difficult to track, the models do not consider water vapor in their predictions. I will gladly scan in the meteorologist's handouts and provide the PDF.
@jb78000 (15178)
13 Aug 09
well because you're quoting a meterologist, at first glance this might look like it makes sense. however you are using some pretty dodgy science here. i'll divide this up: humans have not been around for hundred of billions of years. and yes millions of species have become extinct, on the whole gradually. the land might not have disappeared but sea levels have changed dramatically (and also gradually). the climate change being discussed here is happening at such a rate that ecosystems will not have the time to adapt if it goes out of control. yes some species will survive. a hell of a lot won't though. here's a general link which explains things accurately and simply http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11462-climate-change-a-guide-for-the-perplexed.html weather and climate are not the same thing. weather is chaotic, climate is an average. depending where you're from you might not be able to say it'll snow on christmas day but you will be able to predict with a high level of accuracy that it will be colder in the winter than it is now. subsection of that link http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11649-climate-myths-we-cant-trust-computer-models.html you are right, water vapour does have the greatest effect on climate. however its effects are short term because it does not accumulate in the atmosphere. sooner or later you get rain. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11652-climate-myths-co2-isnt-the-most-important-greenhouse-gas.html i left this bit till last because it's not so relevant but just a general point about science. i'm not going to get into evolution since that is not what this discussion is about. i'll just say science and the spiritual are (usually) different areas. and based on different ways of perceiving. you can have both but using one to explain the other doesn't usually work very well. anyway, thanks for responding to an old discussion.
• United States
14 Aug 09
I don't want to be a smart### but I do not want to be accused of misquoting someone. The meteorologist portion was only the last two paragraphs of my post. The beginning section was from me. It probably does not matter but just wanted to clear that up. You seem to know a large amount about this. Please address the fact that the model that is used everyday is the same model that is used to predict global warming. I do not pretend to be a scientist, so if you already addressed this and my thick head is just not getting it then I apologize. I actually do find this topic interesting.
@jb78000 (15178)
14 Aug 09
i know your response was mainly your own ideas, ok i wasn't very clear with that but if i thought it was all a paraphrasing job i would have said so. anyway i would like to see what this meterologist did say if you want to do your scanning and/or give me a link. i don't know all the ins and outs of forecsting models. but again the main point is that weather and climate are not the same thing. it is possible to tell if the climate has changed and predictions are possibly with a fairly high likelihood of being correct (that was the hundred year comment he made). weather no. (we've all noticed this and this was the noon tomorrow comment). i don't see how a weather model could be used for climate but as i said i don't know all the technicalities here.
@jlamela (4909)
• Philippines
13 Aug 09
Climate Change is a global phenomenon and that is the whole truth, we should not deny it because it is happening right now. What we should do now to minimize the effect of the worsening condition of the global warming is be aware in our environment, we should take actions right now before its too late. I think we are now being punished by our mother Earth because we continually abused the environment and neglected what God gave us. Right now I am super aware of the climate change, the fluctuating weather is distressing but this is the reality we must endure now.
@jb78000 (15178)
13 Aug 09
there seems to be two reasons there is debate about it - the usually vested interests e.g. oil companies, and people being afraid that it is just a new way for their government to control them (presumably all of the world's governments are in it together in that case). whether or not the highly unlikely chance of this being true is worth risking ruining the world even more for is up to the individual. jb
6 Jul 09
Watch "an inconvenient fiction" on information TV. The main crux of the argument is that human induced climate change is only having a slight effect - with most of the change being cause by natural factors.
@jb78000 (15178)
6 Jul 09
i'll take that on board. but still most people think what's happening is due to human activity, which needs to be reduced. i know that especially in the states some people don't like the idea (take a bus instead of the 4 by 4, you're joking!) but it is not a sneaky way for the government to get money, it's just what is happening.
• United States
5 Jul 09
I am not quite sure what you question is Is it will there be a climate change is the earth in sense changing its seasons and locations then if this is what you speak of yes it is happening how fast no one knows but one only has to look at history and see it will happen. History has shown different shifts in the earth it is normal to think this will eventually evolve into something anew. I mean it could be pretty egotistical to think what we say something is someway and it is just to stay that way the universe the world it is a miracle a force of its own and will do what is is inclined to doing we are only to sit back and watch whatever as it happens and hope we will still be around when it is all done
@jb78000 (15178)
5 Jul 09
the climate does undergo gradual shifts over millenia. global warming on the other hand is rapid change caused by human activity, which perhaps we should take responsibility for and try and stop. there are a number of reasons that it could become a huge problem, if it's not already. i made this post because i'm curious about the views of people who think it doesn't exist.