Should churches who hide molesters be tried as the mafia?

United States
November 26, 2010 11:49am CST
Two part question. 1) These are felony accusations, and great organization is put into hiding the accused felons. Jesse Ventura and Bill Maher discuss it around 3:33. They have a fantastic conversation beforehand, too. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAmxVIZoal4 Do you think the Catholic Church should be tried? 2) I am referring to actual victims of child molestation. Not make believe victims because of a TSA pat down. Understanding that genuine victims of molestation were already subjected to dehumanization one (or more if repeated assault) time/s around, do you understand that dehumanizing them again by trying to link an exaggerated view of the TSA patdowns is akin to victimizing them again, at least emotionally? They are not your political football either. This is similar to comparing Obama to Hitler - it is utterly offensive to genuine victims. I know the TSA patdowns toe a fineline, but, if parents discuss with their children beforehand at home, and conduct TSA drills, so the kids know what to expect, it won't come off as a full assault. If they also know that teddy or dolly get to take his/her own ride in a neat conveyor belt, that will help calm the situation. How would you prepare your child for a TSA patdown? Screaming that they shouldn't be subjected to one is not a solution, by the way. And, how would you help them differentiate this patdown between a good touch and a bad touch that you have to tell your parents or trustworthy adult about?
2 people like this
4 responses
@gewcew23 (8012)
• United States
26 Nov 10
When some one commits a crime has should be punished for that crime no matter who or what it is. What makes the American judicial system suppose to be the fairest in the world is that justice is blind and justice is equal. Only problem is that Catholicism is the largest denomination in the USA and many of the lawmakers and enforcers are Catholic themselves. No wonder no one is willing to touch this problem with legal authority. As to the TSA pat down look folks if you find the pat down to be something you object to use the scanner option and make sure you do it correctly. If you don't want to go through the scanners and you don't want to go through the pat down don't fly. I don't have any children so I cannot give you any insight into what to tell children about the pat downs.
1 person likes this
• United States
26 Nov 10
Thanks for taking time to answer. What can the typical Joe Shmoe do to have the Catholic church tried legally, and publicly, instead of concealing this all and keeping it hush-hush?
@Taskr36 (13928)
• United States
26 Nov 10
A lot of this gets concealed because the Catholic church settles outside of court. People get a settlement and don't press charges. It's sick and it's shameful, but some people would rather that than put their child through a trial. Children are extremely difficult to use as witnesses. "If you don't want to go through the scanners and you don't want to go through the pat down don't fly." I agree. Unfortunately when you purchase non-refundable tickets a month before such procedures go into place, you're kind of stuck. That's why I'm doing everything I can to get the word out and have this crap ended before Christmas when I'll be flying.
@gewcew23 (8012)
• United States
26 Nov 10
When election come around ask the candidates for prosecuting attorney and attorney general would they be willing to prosecute a priest who molested a child and any body with in the Catholic church who conspired to obscure justice. If a candidate said that they would vote and campaign for them, if the candidate said that they would not don't vote and campaign against them. Just my guess.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40326)
• Canada
27 Nov 10
The Church's duty would be first to warn the person who is the molester and if he does not take the warning, (in our church it is between brothers or sisters, then with two or three witnesses, the elder talks to the person and tells him what he is doing is an offence, then there is the announcement to the congregation as to the reason he is being scolded, and if he does not comply after three times, they tell his name and excommunicate him. And I am sure that if the police said so and so was molesting a young boy they would cooperate. So we would not keep silent. As for the TSA example, the patdowns the body scanners, I do not like the idea of all Americans who fly are considered potential terrorists. I would be wary of going through on or having my grandchildren go through them and have them patted down by strangers or have the TSA agents feel my private parts. I would not want to have my sons to say, years later, that one of ;my grandchidlren and surprise it was the one who went to the States for something or other. I do not think they are safe and I lived through the time when they gave X-rays to see if one had TB. I do think the patdowns if they touch the chld's private parts is a bad touch. And will leave the child in confusion. I do hope they do not have them when people take the train because when I want to visit the States and cannot get a ride, I would not mind going on Amtrack.
• United States
27 Nov 10
That frightens me that they would get a warning. Your Joe Shmoe child molester doesn't get a warning, they straight get arrested. Do you think the warning is fair? It seems overly fair to the offender, but how about to the victim? Here in the states, it is a felony. As for the US, no one wears a sign saying, "I am a terrorist", and right now, people are probably conducting dry runs, and some bombers have made it onboard but have been thwarted. I think that we have all suggested some solutions, like a body scanner if there were no radiation, or bomb sniffing equipment. But we are not able to implement any changes, outside of calling our representatives. This is the kind of thing where "It is what it is." It's a gamble, kind of. Not all Americans are terrorists. But some sleeper cells do live here, some normal every day whack jobs do live here, and some sneak over here illegally. Is TB contagious? I try to weight the means and the outcomes. If the xray, though bad, helps to stop a highly contagious disease, it becomes a good thing, until there are better ways. Right now, we have a bump test for tb, but I think it takes days for the results. Is a bomb bad? While the patdowns are bad, bombs are far worse. Some of us think 9/11 was an inside job. But, why take the gamble? The funny thing is - the complainers are right now the right wing, because they need to find something to somehow blame Obama for. This was Bush's brainchild, and liberals were upset about this years ago, but immediately discredited. The conservative owned mainstream media only worsened the issue with the colour guide telling the current terrorism rating. Now the propaganda machine has bitten the right wing where it hurts. I would think the economy, jobs, the market, the housing industry, faulty loans, health, I don't know .. a couple wars, North Korea's issues, etc, would trump going through a body scanner here, but, the right wingers don't know how to prioritize. They are all bark. And when that doesn't work, they find something else to bark about.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40326)
• Canada
27 Nov 10
The fact is that when someone says that someone is molesting, the reason for having the steps taken is to get the sinner to repent, and to get him to go to the police himself and tell them that he has molested a child, and this also applies to all offences. So by the first warning by a friend who caught someone cheating on his wife, or whatever, that the offender would realize his wrong and leave the other women, wait until marriage, etc, stop stealing and make it right by returning the item, offering to work for free for so long, etc. Whatever it takes. Most of the time, the offender stops the sin, and in the case of a molester, goes for counselling, etc. It is done this way because in most cases, a friend can often get the offender to stop and if the Roman Catholic followed this procedure, the amount of molestation would not have gone this far. Then there is the danger of false accusations. We have to make sure that it is not out of envy that someone accuses another of an immoral act. As it is, this rarely goes so far and when we hear about it, the person's name is not mentioned, and usually it is in context that the person is in counselling or we are told that the person does not want to be near children and in that case, I usually figure that that person could have suffered a loss of either his own children or a favorite brother or sister and not that he may be afraid of hitting on a child.
@suspenseful (40326)
• Canada
28 Nov 10
The only one that can cure them is God, And I guess you are say8ing that the only way God can cure them is to kill them immediately. The fact is if they join the church and go through all the rites, etc. take catechism, etc. that if they continue in their sin, they are hypocrites. And yet in some churches they accept 'gay' Christians who still live the homosexual lifestyle and say they are unable to change. I am not getting in that debate here, but if a molester joins the church and knows that he would still sin, but instead of going after a child in actuality,he would go after him in his heart. So in God's eye, he is still a molester just as someone who used to cheat on his wife in person, and joins the church is still an adulteress even though he looks at a woman and commits adultery in his heart. Yet in those two cases, God has been able to change their hearts and the two individuals will never commit those sins in person because they now have the Holy Spirit in them that keeps them from acting out. And personally I have never questioned any member of our church to find out if they had been a murderer, child molester, adulturer, etc. before they joined. Only the elder who questioned them and me know of the former sins. With some it is very clear - an illegitimate child, a conviction in the courts, having been in prison, etc. but with others the sin is not known. And of course, those coming from prison, the majority, have never been convicted of their sin and they are of course still urged to hurt or molest a child. I think that if that person does physical or mental harm, that he should never be released. So the Meghan's Law would not be needed since they would not be released in society even if one does convert and changes. It would be like a murderer who comes to Christ in prison. He would still be saved, but he would still be executed for his crime. But the feeling nowadays is that if a person committed a crime or sin in person, he will never be able to change. And that is dangerous. .
• Elkin, North Carolina
27 Nov 10
Well honestly I don't think the churches should be tried the same as the mafia unless the whole church knew about what was going on and did nothing about it. The problem with your post though is that you really write nothing substantial on the topic that you set out to write about. You changed the subject after the first couple of sentences and went off on a tangent about the TSA. And the two things that you tried to compare really have nothing to do with each other.
• United States
27 Nov 10
One problem with going after the catholic church as a whole is that it's headquarters is in another country...and the vatican city is considered it's own country with the pope as the ruler of that country. That makes it hard to go after them. Our court system does not have the authority to crinimally go after the Pope. Not only is he not in America or an American. Therefore can not be held accountable for our laws. But he is the leader of a HUGE religion and a ruler of a country. It would cause a HUGE international incident. They can hold the individual priests that molest those kids criminally responsible because they were IN the country and broke it's laws. But they can't touch any of the more powerful people in the church that live in the vatican city. Even if they helped cover up it up. The vatican would have to actually go after the higher ups and do you actually think they are going to do that? Nope. As for TSA..it is simple. If you don't like the rules...don't fly. I am not comfortable with the new scanners or the new pat downs. So I simply don't fly. I have kids and I don't think it is ever OK to teach them it is ok to allow a stranger to violate their personal space. Just because they are little does not mean they don't have perfectly valid feeling about personal space and not wanting strangers to touch them. As for good touching and bad touching. I am NOT comfortable with TSA employees putting their hands all over my children. When a complete stranger puts their hands on your child...there is no such thing as a "good touch". It may not be criminal...but I am not comfortable with complete strangers touching my children. Most children are not comfortable with it either. Just because you prepare them for the pat down does mean it won't make them feel uncomfortable or embarrassed or a range of other emotions. ANd just because they are kids does not mean we should disreguard how it makes them feel. Which is why to solve this problem I have decided that we won't fly. I would rather drive for 10 hours and not have to deal it. It is just not worth the hassle. Not just for me but for my children as well. Why put them through that when I can spare them that experience by driving.