A Canadian woman sued a Muslim barber for refusing to cut her hair.

@Naseem00 (1996)
Pakistan
November 17, 2012 6:31am CST
Hello myLotters, A Muslim barber in Canada is sued by a woman when he refused to give her a hair cut because Islam forbids touching of strange women. This was seen as discrimination by the woman who has sued the barber for refusing her. “We live for our values. We are people who have values and we hold on to it. I am not going to change what the faith has stated to us to do. This is not extreme — this is just a basic value that we follow,” said Karim Saaden, co-owner of the Terminal Barber Shop. You can read full story here. http://english.alarabiya.net/articles/2012/11/16/249931.html Do you think the barber had a right to do what he did or you think the woman is correct to fee discriminated?
1 person likes this
13 responses
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
17 Nov 12
The barber was within his rights because he owns a private establishment and can legally refuse to serve any customer for any reason at all, whether stated or not. The word "Barber" (as clearly seen in the sign above the shop in the photograph) traditionally implies a place which only cuts men's hair. I am sure that the woman was fully aware of the meaning of the word and, in fact, she wanted her hair cut in a man's style. Omar Mahrouk was absolutely within his rights and legal obligations in refusing to cut Faith McGregor's hair. Faith McGregor, on the other hand, has failed to respect another person's right to hold and adhere to religious convictions, which do not cause harm to anyone and do not deprive anyone of their rights, and is seeking to do actual [financial and social] harm to someone by supposing that she 'has a right' to have her hair cut by anyone she chooses.
1 person likes this
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
17 Nov 12
Actually I should modify my statement that the owner of a premises can "legally refuse to serve any customer for any reason at all, whether stated or not." In fact, the owner is likely to be more within the law if he refuses to give a reason because there are circumstances where some reasons may constitute illegal discrimination. The barber, for example, could not legally refuse to cut someone's hair merely because he was black or a Christian. Exactly the same argument might apply in the case of an Islamic male doctor being forbidden to touch female patients. As far as I know, however, some flexibility is allowed in medical circumstances.
1 person likes this
@Naseem00 (1996)
• Pakistan
17 Nov 12
Hi owlwings and thank you for sharing your thoughts. I am not sure how correct you are when you say a private establishment can legally refuse to serve any customer for any reason at all because recently in UK a court ordered to pay damages to a Christian B&B who refused to rent a room to a gay couple. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/oct/18/christian-gay-couple-ordered-pay-damages I am really interested to see the outcome of this barber's trial
@urbandekay (18278)
17 Nov 12
It is hypocritical to justify the actions of the Barber and not the B and B owners; both refused service because of religious beliefs and what is sauce for the goose is surely sauce for the gander. In fact, as the B and B couple ran not a hotel but a B and B, which is not exclusively a business premises, which business rate legislation on B and B testify to, they actually have a better case, since they would have to invite the homosexual couple into their home. Generally though, religious beliefs should be respected all the best, urban
1 person likes this
@urbandekay (18278)
17 Nov 12
I would need first to know the prohibition and its scriptorual basis all the best, urban
@Naseem00 (1996)
• Pakistan
17 Nov 12
Sayings of the prophet are called Hadith. Going by the Oxford dictionary, a barber is to exclusively serve males. Those barbers who like to serve both males and females, usually use other terms like Groomer or Hair specialist.
@Naseem00 (1996)
• Pakistan
17 Nov 12
Hi urbandekay, here is one from scripture The prophet, peace be upon him said, "It is better for you to be stabbed in the head with an iron needle than to touch the hand of a woman who is not permissible to you." Since you are a native English speaker, may I ask you what the word 'barber' means? because I have looked through the dictionaries and it seems like a person who cuts hair and trims mustache and beard of men. If that is correct, would he be correct to refuse serving a woman even if there was no religious prohibition.
@urbandekay (18278)
17 Nov 12
As a native speaker, I understand a barber to predominantly but not exclusively cut men's hair. Were is that scripture, in the Quran or a Hadith all the best, urban
@bestboy19 (5478)
• United States
17 Nov 12
I'm going to have to side with the barber. That woman is trying to force her secular ways on him; and just as I think it's wrong for the US government to force on Christian businesses the Obamacare portions that go against their beliefs, the same goes for this Muslim barber.
@Naseem00 (1996)
• Pakistan
17 Nov 12
Thanks for sharing. I also side with the barber as I believe the woman is showing her secular intolerance. BTW I have no idea about obamacare and what portions you are talking about.
@Naseem00 (1996)
• Pakistan
18 Nov 12
Abortion is a very hot topic in the US and both groups who are against and for it are very hard on their beliefs. I can understand how Christians must feel bad about it as my religion also forbids killing of unborn babies. As the secular class is gaining strength, do you foresee some strong resistance from those who are against abortion in near future?
@bestboy19 (5478)
• United States
19 Nov 12
I'm afraid there are many denominations of Christians that reinterpret scripture in order to appease secularism so they will not be seen as politically incorrect. The Bible says God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. These Christians have traded their belief in the teachings of Christ for the desires of the world. I won't say they are lost, but they are heading in the wrong direction. There are many who believe abortion is wrong both in the religious world and the secular world but how strong their numbers are I don't know. Whether religious or not, I would hope people would see what a cruel and selfish act abortion is.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
17 Nov 12
Why on earth is this guy a barber if he's only going to cut men's hair? I don't know how progressive Canada is, but I doubt they've progressed to the point of reverting like some other progressive countries have done, being so "tolerant" and multicultural that they allow for their society to be segmented off into tribes. Sued or not, that doesn't matter to me. I want to know what this guy was thinking when opening a barbershop in Canada. They're at least half.
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
17 Nov 12
Barbers, by definition, are solely male hairdressers. Someone who will cut the hair of both sexes usually calls him- or herself a "Hairdresser" or a "Hair Stylist", often with the words "Unisex" or "Men's and Women's" inserted. Anyone who runs a private establishment has a legal right to refuse to serve any customer he chooses for whatever reason. Not many people are fully aware of that.
@Naseem00 (1996)
• Pakistan
17 Nov 12
Hi materfish, as owlwings mentioned, by definition a barber is a person who only serves males. Even if that was not the case, why would the woman insist to have her hair cut by this one particular barber, I am there are lot of others around who would have served her happily. Why to take it as an offence.
@urbandekay (18278)
17 Nov 12
Firstly, Barbers are those that primarily serve men but that does not exclude them from serving women. Secondly, it is not true that "Anyone who runs a private establishment has a legal right to refuse to serve any customer he chooses for whatever reason." As has been shown in recent legal cases all the best, urban
@marguicha (215604)
• Chile
23 Nov 12
In my country there are different kinds of places where you can get your hair cut. There are the onbes that would be called "barber shops" in English. It is just for men. It`s a men`s realm, with some men`s magazines to look at while they wait. Then there are the unisex hairdressers or the hairdressers that will only dress women`s hair. There are even a couple of only children hair dressing shops. If the Muslim barber had it clear in his shop that it was a barber shop (no womaen), the lady had no reason to go there.
@Naseem00 (1996)
• Pakistan
24 Nov 12
Yes barber shops are meant for men only and if a woman goes there she should not always expect to be treated like any man.
@marguicha (215604)
• Chile
24 Nov 12
I hope that the authorities don`t accept that the woman is right. I think she is just trying to get something out of a situation where she had no rights. I am a woman and want respect and equality. That does not mean that I`ll use a man`s public toilet if there`s a ladie`s room.
@iuliuxd (4453)
• Romania
19 Nov 12
This is political correctness crap. Everyone should be allowed to refuse whoever he wants and to do whatever he wants. It`s our fault because we don`t turn off the tv and fight for our freedoms.
@Naseem00 (1996)
• Pakistan
20 Nov 12
The lady in this case sees it as her right to have her hair cut from whoever she wants. How do you see that?
@iuliuxd (4453)
• Romania
20 Nov 12
I think it`s wrong Naseem, probably she was looking for trouble. She should pe punished for harassing that guy.
@Adoniah (7513)
• United States
19 Nov 12
Personally, I think that there is more to this story than face value...Men and women go to hair salons or hairdressers or beauty parlors. Men traditionally go to barber shops. Barber shops are a place where men can go to get away from women. They talk men talk and read mens mags. I would never set foot into a barbershop. Not because I am descriminatory, but because I respect mens need for male time, just as women need female time. I think this woman was looking for trouble. moslems are not the only group that do not approve of unrelated males and females touching. There are christian religions that do not approve and there are Orthodox Jews that do not approve. When you know the traditions of a people you should not cause trouble with them as long as they are not dangerous traditions. The woman is a jerk!
@Naseem00 (1996)
• Pakistan
20 Nov 12
Hi, I totally agree with you and fail to see why the case was even filed.
@Cutie18f (9551)
• Philippines
17 Nov 12
Wait a minute--why did this woman go to a barber? Barbers cut men's hair. Women go to beauticians or beauty salons and not a barber shop. But anyway, I do not know what the practice is, but probably in that country barbers cut everybody's hair but the only problem here is the barber's refusing the woman because he does not know her. Well, that's weird. That is his occupation. That's his job. Why go into that kind of business if he chooses his customers?
@Naseem00 (1996)
• Pakistan
17 Nov 12
Yes barbers are usually meant to cut men's hair. but some people from US and UK on this discussion told me it is usual in their country for ladies to go to barbers. The reason why the Muslim barber refused to serve her is not that he does not know the woman. The reason is being a Muslim he is not allowed to get in body contact with strange women.
@marie2052 (3691)
• United States
18 Nov 12
Naseem00 while not everyone can understand other cultures, I would respect his culture and religion. Everyone has come to the U.S. via ancestors of various countries. We are known as the "melting pot of the world" many people have paid the price dearly to live free in America. I have to agree with the shop owner as he was just a barber shop anyway. There are many beauty shops this lady could have gone to. I dont understand why we have to sue someone over every simple thing that exsists in the world. I sincerely hope the barber gets off this suit. Doesn't our courts have more meaningful trials to do than this? And we are paying attorneys to take such stupid and trivial cases. Then we wonder why they have the latest cars, houses, vacations. We throw our money away to see if we can gain a bit more money from someone that is doing an honest job. Seriously! I know if I could show up in court I would so be there to back this man that has probably struggled to own his own shop, become a legal citizen and work very hard to have someone try to dismantle him. Such a sad way of thinking our society has become.
@Naseem00 (1996)
• Pakistan
18 Nov 12
Hi marie, yes the lady did not have to sue the barber for such a small issue specially when he offered he to find her another place around to have her hair cut. I appreciate your gesture showing support for the barber and hope the court decides in his favor. Thanks
@ecaron (678)
• Canada
18 Nov 12
I agree with marie2052 in this discussion. There are plenty of beauty shops for women and men in Canada although I know some barber shops that serve both sexes. I also think that this barber has a right to uphold his religious beliefs and the woman's suit is uncalled for,totally.
@koopharper (7477)
• Canada
18 Nov 12
The woman is wasting her time, the barber's time and her money because Canadian courts won't swallow this. I'm surprised Human Rights Tribunal of Ontario even let it go this far. They seemed more intelligent than that the last time I spoke with them. I think the barber was entirely within his rights. I also don't see his refusal of service as discrimination. She thinks his refusal to cut her hair disrespects her as a woman. He feels he would be disrespecting her as a woman if he were to touch her hair. There are plenty of barber shops in the Toronto area that would happily cut her hair. She should go to one of them.
@Naseem00 (1996)
• Pakistan
18 Nov 12
Hi, Since the case has been filed, I am really interested to see the outcome. Yes the woman seems to be at fault here. Thanks for your comment.
@samar54 (2454)
• Egypt
5 Dec 12
I do not know why this woman did so, the barber did not mean to discrimination and were not intended to angering her , it just follows the religion orders not to touch a woman who is not permissible for him, which if shaving will touch her ??hair certainly is not it?
• Qatar
18 Nov 12
I can'thelp but smile upon reading this. Denying a barber cut will lead to court. It is kust a petty thing. If the barber refused, then go to another barber shop, I am sure a lot in the area. It is their belief not to cut women's hair, we should learn to respect.
@Naseem00 (1996)
• Pakistan
18 Nov 12
Hi, yes I totally agree. Thanks for sharing
17 Nov 12
Hello Naseem00 greetings. Actually, this is not an isolated case wherein a conflict arises between religious and civil rights. From the term itself, both the barber and the woman has the right to refused and to file a complain respectively. Since the case has already been brought to the court of law in Canada, well I am very curious to know the outcome of the said case.
@Naseem00 (1996)
• Pakistan
17 Nov 12
Hello mangtony7451, I see this kind of 'secular intolerance' on rise in the western world which is alarming. The woman felt offended while knowing she is asking a barber to serve her while by definition barbers only serve males.