I am sick and upset
@GardenGerty (157721)
United States
June 28, 2018 7:20am CST
It makes me ill to have to be mean.
We sent a registered letter to the person in this previous discussion.
They had paid us in January, after a quarterly statement telling them they had not paid since August.
They have responded to our letter, let us see if they stick to their word. Hubby wanted them to just give the car back.
Statement sent in March.
Bob spoke to them personally in May.
I am using scripture to deal with this debt. There is a protocol. This is important, since the debtor is a pastor.
The steps are
1. speak privately about a wrong with the offender.
2. If that has no result, speak again, with two witnesses.
3. Should that step fail, tell the church about it.
4. If you receive no satisfaction, then that person is like a gentile and outcast to you. Translate that to "Take them to court"
This is the protocol laid out in Matthew 18:15-17.
I see there is another message for me in Facebook. I told him this morning that he has a reputation with others of not paying. I feel nauseous.
I sold something this summer. It was for more than a little pocket change, but we agreed to take payments. Weekly payments. I last received a payment August...
13 people like this
15 responses
@GardenGerty (157721)
• United States
28 Jun 18
Just not a responsible human. Also not scriptural, actually.
2 people like this
@GardenGerty (157721)
• United States
29 Jun 18
@LadyDuck I know and it makes me very sad.
2 people like this
@LadyDuck (459677)
• Switzerland
28 Jun 18
@GardenGerty Humans are humans, they are not perfect, we have seen what Priests have done, not only about money.
3 people like this
@Carmelanirel2 (8084)
• United States
29 Jun 18
Wow, I didn't realize that was the protocol in the Bible, if I had known, we probably won't be in the mess we are in now. I am sorry this is happening, and I am trying to not judge all believers (as you know, I am one myself) but over the years I have seen dealing with someone who says they are "Christian" usually do me wrong. Why is that? Maybe they don't know these steps and believe I won't take legal action? I think so, because that is why I didn't take him to court.
2 people like this
@GardenGerty (157721)
• United States
29 Jun 18
The only persons who have ever cheated us have been Christians, church members, and people we have known well. Oh, and family. I was too tired and stressed in the past to deal with or follow these steps, but I believe God reminded me of this scripture to use in this case, and being unhappy about it has been disturbing my peace.
1 person likes this
@Rollo1 (16679)
• Boston, Massachusetts
28 Jun 18
Unfortunately, paying off debts is like a character trait that people have or they don't. It's an attitude and a habit, maybe learned in childhood when one has poor role models. But you are doing all you can to handle this privately and with discretion. Perhaps the best thing you can do is to force someone to face their obligations, this person obviously needs that push.
2 people like this
@GardenGerty (157721)
• United States
28 Jun 18
Yep. He just does not understand because we had assured him there was "no pressure". Of course at that time both my husband and I were working.
1 person likes this
@lovinangelsinstead21 (36850)
• Pamplona, Spain
28 Jun 18
Hope it all gets sorted out for you as its difficult to get people to pay sometimes.
1 person likes this
@GardenGerty (157721)
• United States
28 Jun 18
Supposedly they will pay us on July 1st. and every week thereafter until paid off. Talk is cheap.
1 person likes this
@GardenGerty (157721)
• United States
29 Jun 18
@lovinangelsinstead21 Hubby points out that they could not afford their original promise, now they are promising double payments and we do not understand how that is possible.
2 people like this
@lovinangelsinstead21 (36850)
• Pamplona, Spain
28 Jun 18
@GardenGerty
Even so I hope that they do pay you this time as they really ought to do so.
1 person likes this
@GardenGerty (157721)
• United States
29 Jun 18
Oh, this guy could not be long gone, but in a year's time he has paid $275. We told him he could give the car back and we could just call that rent. The person who asked hubby if he had ever been paid is a mechanic in town here. Hubby ran into him in an auto parts store thirty miles away and the man said he refused to work for John unless he received upfront pay. That lit a fire under my meanness.
2 people like this
@MarshaMusselman (38675)
• Midland, Michigan
29 Jun 18
@GardenGerty so then his not paying doesn't sound like common knowledge? I thought maybe you found this out from someone on the church.
Are you attending that church?
@RubyHawk (99423)
• Atlanta, Georgia
30 Jun 18
@GardenGerty I can see why. That was rubbing salt in the wound.
@GardenGerty (157721)
• United States
28 Jun 18
Oh, it is a long story, and yes if we had chosen to donate it to him, he would have snapped it up. We gave him very generous terms, but he is surprised that we are wanting them enforced now.
2 people like this
@GardenGerty (157721)
• United States
29 Jun 18
@josie_ I used to. This is one of several reasons why we no longer attend there. If he does not honor his latest promise, we have two elders of the church whom we will speak with, then the church board, then it is a lawsuit.
2 people like this
@josie_ (9763)
• Philippines
29 Jun 18
@GardenGerty _Do you happen to belong to his congregation?
1 person likes this
@GardenGerty (157721)
• United States
28 Jun 18
Thanks, we believe we will need it. Talk is very cheap.
@GardenGerty (157721)
• United States
29 Jun 18
Oh yes, I never told him there was any pressure. I have not been firm in the past when I talked with him, so he thought there was no rush. The car has depreciated so much we could not sell it for what he owes, but I did not tell him that. I think sending him a quarterly statement, with a deadline of when he should have the car paid for should have been sufficient.
1 person likes this
@MarshaMusselman (38675)
• Midland, Michigan
29 Jun 18
It's awful when pastors can't keep their word. Too bad you didn't know he had problems on this area before you agreed to work with him on it.
Did you inform the church or just the elders or/and deacons? I'm not sure what's proper there but I am familiar with the steps you shared as I write a thesis on it f for my associates degree long ago.
1 person likes this
@GardenGerty (157721)
• United States
29 Jun 18
Right now we have just warned him that we consider this to be a wrong. He is surprised we consider this a problem as we have never said that there was any pressure to pay. I will not argue but I have copies of communications where I told him he needed to have it paid off on time. If he does not stick with his latest payment plan we will talk to him and ask two of the elders of the church to be witnesses. If that fails, then the whole church, and if that fails it will be small claims court. Or he can give the car back. We gave him the title when he signed a payment agreement, so he may have sold it. Who knows?
1 person likes this
@MarshaMusselman (38675)
• Midland, Michigan
29 Jun 18
@GardenGerty have you not driven be three church to see if the vehicle is around? Hopefully he didn't sell it. Since you turned the title over to him already it could be possible that small claims would throw your case out. Maybe there's a lawyer there than can give a consult on the matter for a small fee just to see the possibilities.
On the other hand did he ever sign anything saying he would pay for it? Even if he didn't your copies may be enough. Hopefully the elders will get him to pay without the courts intervention.
@GardenGerty (157721)
• United States
29 Jun 18
It makes me feel mean, and somehow like I am at fault. I get anxious and nauseous about it.
1 person likes this
@JudyEv (326434)
• Rockingham, Australia
29 Jun 18
@GardenGerty Our son's last house-mate owed him money when he moved out and he still owes a small amount. My son feels like you do but really it is their debt and they should pay up. I'm sorry it is causing you such heartache.
1 person likes this
@GardenGerty (157721)
• United States
1 Jul 18
There are things that seem like carelessness and lack of personal integrity in his life.
1 person likes this
@YrNemo (20261)
•
1 Jul 18
@GardenGerty I met quite a few who thought by becoming pastors, they could get away with murders.
@saritflor (3914)
• Hungary
28 Jun 18
Sorry but I don't understand who didn't pay you?
I wish you to feel well.
1 person likes this
@GardenGerty (157721)
• United States
28 Jun 18
We sold a car over a year ago. We agreed to take small payments. We do not even receive that. The person we let take the car for payments is a pastor. He also has dabbled in local politics. He seems surprised that we need the money. We are not rich.
