An early provisionnal assessment about Notre-Dame de Paris
By topffer
@topffer (42156)
France
April 16, 2019 3:10am CST
I had a lump in my throat yesterday when I heard that Notre-Dame was burning. I switched the TV on and could not support the disastrous/stupid media comments that I was hearing. It is disgusting how journalists love disasters, I switched the TV off. I do not put any photo here to protest against this unhealthy buzz.
Here what can be told today :
- the fire started near the spire of the cathedral which was restored after the workers were gone. The spire has fallen for the second time, the first spire had been built during the 13th C, this one was from the 19th C, built by Viollet-le-Duc.
- a large part of the roof and timber frame are destroyed. A part of the timber frame is from the 12th C, it is a pity that it burnt, but nobody was visiting the home of Quasimodo... By luck, the bronze statues on the roof had been removed a few days ago to be restored, and they are safe.
- a part of the vault has fallen at the transept crossing and Northern span, permitting to the smoke to enter inside, so all the large paintings that had not been removed and the woods will have to be restored, but it seems that the organ is alright, the altar also, and the treasure of the cathedral has been removed by the firemen and is safe.
- many damages are not yet evaluated, but the main risk now is structural, we can just cross fingers and hope that the rest of the vault will not fall before it can be consolidated.
I have some very personal memories related to Notre-Dame and I am heavy hearted today, feeling a real sadness. When I attended a mass there in February, I could not imagine that it would perhaps be the last one in my life. It will be restored for sure, but how long will it take ? To show our irritation when we are waiting for something or somebody which/who is not coming we say in French «I will not wait 107 years.» This expression is from the Middle-Age, these 107 years were the time spent to build Notre-Dame, we can just hope that the restoration will not take 107 years...
24 people like this
24 responses
@LadyDuck (458106)
• Switzerland
16 Apr 19
Just like you, my heart bleeds and I have no words to describe how I felt when I read the news... I feel French, I feel Parisian, I am sad and even more sad reading the stupidity that journalists writes. I am not sure I will see Notre-Dame rebuilt, surely not in 107 years... but not even in 30 years.
5 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
16 Apr 19
Difficult to tell. Seriously restored with the techniques of the Middle-Age, it will take several decades. The money being there (more than 500 millions Euros offered today), it is possible. But I am afraid that the politicians will prefer to use modern materials and techniques, to re-open it as soon as possible. In this case, it may be done in 3 to 5 years, but Notre-Dame will never be the same
.
.4 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
16 Apr 19
@LadyDuck The vaults would have fallen under the weight of water if Canadairs had been used, he should better send them to California. The firemen did a good surgical work and saved the monument and most of the art inside without the help of Trump.
4 people like this
@LadyDuck (458106)
• Switzerland
16 Apr 19
@topffer I was listening to an interview of the Swiss Architect Botta, he said "It will never be the same", exactly your words. I was reading how the mighty Trump wondered why they did not throw tons of water with Canadair. It clearly shows the usual macho attitude, kill a fly using a bazooka, who cares if you destroy the house?
4 people like this
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
16 Apr 19
My heart goes out to the whole of France, for surely your loss is ours as well.
I watched a good deal of the BBC's broadcast and didn't feel that our journalists gave anything but the best they could muster at the time. There were inanities and much repetition, of course, but one felt that most of them were struggling to find words for a disaster which is beyond words. Perhaps your French journalists see it differently (though I doubt it).
I am very surprised to hear that anything might have survived in what appeared from the pictures we were shown to be an inferno which encompassed the entire nave, choir and transepts - the whole interior, in fact.
I am certain that the cathedral will be rebuilt. Macron has promised that and I don't doubt that there will be many contributions from all over the world. The craftsmanship needed to restore and rebuild such a complex and beautiful building is not easy to come by but it does still exist. First of all, the stonework will have to be supported, made safe and cleaned and restored. It occurs to me that the flying buttresses were there to counter the outward pressure from the roof and, now that that is gone, there may be a tendency for the walls to be pushed inwards and collapse. However, I'm sure that that will be attended to in the coming weeks.
Paris has a great deal of fine architecture by modern architects. Let us hope that the restoration of Notre Dame will both honour and enhance the work of the early builders and will also look forward by adding some tasteful, innovative and modern elements. The process should not be rushed, I think, but nor should it take as long to complete as 107 years!
Nothing of any value to God is lost that cannot be rebuilt.
4 people like this
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
16 Apr 19
@topffer I had forgotten that the ceiling was of vaulted stone with a wooden roof structure over it. Of course, if the stone vaulting survived it would have protected much of the interior. Of course, the collapse of the fleche did a great deal of damage but not nearly as much as one might have thought, seeing it fall. I am relieved that the famous Rose Window seems to have survived.
The 19th Century church restorers had very little to commend them except that they did save buildings which would otherwise have crumbled. Many of our churches were also 'restored' in the 19th Century by well-meaning but rather misguided and over-enthusiastic architects.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
16 Apr 19
The timber frame is at 2/3 destroyed, but most of the vaults are there, the main damages are under the spire. I give you a link with photos of the inside. If is not that bad.
Our media gave a relation which was half catastrophism/half voyeurism, interviewing people crying, and not realizing that the spire and roof burning (at least at start) were only from the 19th C. The more important was to save the facade, towers and rose windows, and the firemen did a wonderful job : it is confirmed since a moment that not only the facade, but all the rose windows are saved.
The facility would probably be to add some modern elements and use modern materials, to restore it quickly. Personally I would like to see it restored like it was... before Viollet-Le-Duc, with no fancy addition.
Des photos prises tard dans la soirée de l'intérieur de la cathédrale montrent la violence de l'incendie et l'ampleur des dégâts.
2 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
16 Apr 19
@owlwings They need 2 days to consolidate the vaults ; after that Notre-Dame will be saved.
This is true, without 19th C architects, many churches would not be there today. The problem is that some of them, like Viollet-le-Duc or Abadie, could not restore a monument without adding a personal touch. All is not bad, I have visited in Brussels Notre-Dame du Sablon, a 15th C church where a fan of Viollet added a lot of 13th C like elements, from the pinnacle to the most funny gargoyles that I have seen : they are laughing or grimacing
.
.1 person likes this
@lovinangelsinstead21 (36850)
• Pamplona, Spain
16 Apr 19
Just by chance I read the text on the bottom of the television screen last night and I thought wow and then I thought of you also and how you must be feeling about that.
I trust your evaluation of it all much more than theirs and you are right its only a big buzz they want and then forget about it after.
I reckon it won´t take them that long to fix and repair it all at least I hope not.
It really is beautiful and La Familia Sagrada has also been in line for sabbotage on it as well.
Of course I don´t know how true that is and not saying that the fire itself was intentional but that is about the only time that beautiful Church in Barcelona gets a mention.
Trusting that all the other things got saved and will follow your stuff not theirs about it.
3 people like this
@lovinangelsinstead21 (36850)
• Pamplona, Spain
16 Apr 19
@topffer
I feel for you tops I really do its like as if they would say to me that St. Peter´s Church the main one of them all has been burned down also.
It means a lot to us Wulfrunians also even if we are not actually living there.
I never went inside that Church myself as I thought it was not for us to enter there unless you were somebody special.
I have seen inside the Notre Dame of Paris in images and love it.
You are right the first choice will take place I suppose or maybe and expert that can do both you know keep some of the older bits and strengthen it with new things.
Our Lady of Guadalupe suffered some kind of fire ages ago and yet she was not touched her image I mean.
Things that happen.
Hoping for the best solution for Notre Dame de Paris.
Also that they will find someone or some people that will know what to do and treat Notre Dame with loving care.
2 people like this
@topffer (42156)
• France
16 Apr 19
@lovinangelsinstead21 Notre-Dame was a house opened for free to all visitors, Christians or not. I was a toddler when I went inside the first time, last time was 2 months ago, in my way to London and Dublin. I am so sorry, it is like if my own house had burnt.
We have very talented heritage architects and curators in France, I hope that their opinion will win on the opinion of politicians.
.1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
16 Apr 19
The fire in Notre-Dame was probably due to a soldering accident on the roof. The roof is/was covered with lead, some embers/melted lead have probably fallen on the timber frame, and the workers did not noticed it.
I was very sad yesterday, and the voyeurism of some journalists was disgusting, they were somewhere hoping that all the building would fall.
A lot of money is given today for the restoration of the building. There are 2 options : or, you restore it with modern materials and techniques, and it may be done in a few years, or you rebuild it like it was, and it may take decades. I am afraid that the first solution will win, because the millions of people visiting it every year represent a lot of money
.
.4 people like this
@Morleyhunt (21737)
• Canada
16 Apr 19
Why do we feel the need to view this disaster as it occurs. I did watch some of the video footage, but watched it with the volume on mute..
Thank you for giving us such a succinct update without the media's sensationalist views.
3 people like this
@florelway (23141)
• Cagayan De Oro, Philippines
16 Apr 19
It is really very sad.
3 people like this
@Sreekala (34312)
• India
16 Apr 19
Media is not there to report the events correctly but for adding their popularity and profits. I am also irritated with the media debate on every now then by different channels when there is some thing happened. This is applicable to all media channels among world.
Sad to know that massive fire happened in Paris.
3 people like this
@marguicha (215441)
• Chile
17 Apr 19
I have been in mourning too. But you lifted a weight from my chest: I read that the organ had been burned.
1 person likes this
@much2say (53958)
• Los Angeles, California
17 Apr 19
I heard and couldn't believe it. Instead of checking the news first, I saw the many photo posts on FB from friends who had visited Notre-Dame. So heartbreaking that a beautiful monument burned - but thank goodness much of it was saved and could be restored. It is a treasure for so many. I just happened to see the news tonight - hopefully it will be completed in maybe 5 years? I understand it must to be structurally safe first, but I hope the restoration can be as close to the original as it was . . . I truly hope there are no modern twists.
1 person likes this
@much2say (53958)
• Los Angeles, California
17 Apr 19
@topffer It would definitely take time to do a restoration true to the integrity of the original - such intricate work shouldn't be rushed. But ah, the Olympics and tourism then, now I can see the motive for that time frame. There is a lot of history and pride attached to Notre-Dame, it deserves only proper treatment - I do hope they "do it right". I must throw in that a certain someone is a dingbat for his suggestion via tweet on how to put out that fire .
Looking on FB, I had forgotten that a long ago childhood friend has a sister living in Paris - apparently they video chatted and Notre-Dame was burning behind her .
.
Looking on FB, I had forgotten that a long ago childhood friend has a sister living in Paris - apparently they video chatted and Notre-Dame was burning behind her .1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
17 Apr 19
@much2say It looks like quite everybody has received photos of Notre-Dame burning here.
I saw this tweet, but I do not look anymore for the tweets of your President. The only thing that I learned with him is that one can be together rich and a kind of social case.
The damages are not evaluated yet, but today our PM presented a law for Notre-Dame. I think there is already twice the money needed, but as they are speaking of billions now, maybe they really want to do a good restoration. We will see.
I saw this tweet, but I do not look anymore for the tweets of your President. The only thing that I learned with him is that one can be together rich and a kind of social case.
The damages are not evaluated yet, but today our PM presented a law for Notre-Dame. I think there is already twice the money needed, but as they are speaking of billions now, maybe they really want to do a good restoration. We will see.1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
17 Apr 19
It is the most visited monument in Europe, I was worried yesterday that the politicians pushed for a quick and fast restoration of the timber frame, with concrete or metal. But I was not expecting that from Macron himself. Why 5 years ? Because there are Olympics games in Paris in 2024. Restoring the frame like it was would take a lot more time, we would not have enough carpenters specialized in historical monuments in all the country to do it in 5 years. This said, 1 billion euro has been collected in 24 hr for the restoration, it is more than needed to restore it exactly like it was, and people are sensible to the way their heritage is treated, so I have still a hope that Notre-Dame will not be offered up to business.
. Restoring the frame like it was would take a lot more time, we would not have enough carpenters specialized in historical monuments in all the country to do it in 5 years. This said, 1 billion euro has been collected in 24 hr for the restoration, it is more than needed to restore it exactly like it was, and people are sensible to the way their heritage is treated, so I have still a hope that Notre-Dame will not be offered up to business.1 person likes this
@allknowing (130064)
• India
16 Apr 19
I have visited this place as a tourist. I can understand your sadness.
3 people like this
@changjiangzhibin89 (16532)
• China
16 Apr 19
That is a really heartbroken thing to hear ! I have watched the film «Notre-Dame de Paris»,what a majestic building the Notre-Dame is ! Hope it won't be too long before it is restored.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
16 Apr 19
Because of the book of Victor Hugo, all the planet knows Notre-Dame. It is a big symbol for French people, the soul of Paris (the km 0 of streets in Paris starts not from the City Hall but from Notre-Dame), and everybody is sad today.
The timber frame is unique and it may take a lot of time to restore it, but for sure it will be restored
.
.1 person likes this
@changjiangzhibin89 (16532)
• China
17 Apr 19
@topffer This Gothic masterpiece is a splendid heritage for French people,thus the date of Notre-Dame being burning will always be a sore point with the French .We all look forward to the day when it is restored.
1 person likes this
@janethwayne (5193)
• Philippines
17 Apr 19
I saw it in the news also and sorry to hear about that.
1 person likes this
@janethwayne (5193)
• Philippines
17 Apr 19
@topffer Your country is one of my favorite destination that I love to visit when I go for a holiday.I understand what you feel.
1 person likes this
@GardenGerty (157551)
• United States
16 Apr 19
Thank you for providing a factual assessment and I trust you will be able to keep us informed.
1 person likes this
@BarBaraPrz (45487)
• St. Catharines, Ontario
16 Apr 19
Thanks for the information. I heard something about a fire yesterday on the radio but I wasn't paying attention. Later I found out it was Notre-Dame but still didn't know the details. Do they know how it started?
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
16 Apr 19
There were restorations on the roof around the spire, and it is probably a problem of soldering : some embers or melted lead (the roof was covered with lead) have fallen on the timber frame without being noticed by the workers. The alarms detected the fire later, when all the workers were gone. There is an investigation opened to establish the responsibility.
1 person likes this
@cmoneyspinner (9221)
• Austin, Texas
16 Apr 19
I breathed a sigh of relief when it was reported that it was NOT a terrorist attack and the news reports did not mention any loss of life. The fact that they will rebuild the cathedral is a given.
1 person likes this
@Shiva49 (26202)
• Singapore
17 Apr 19
If I feel a sense of deep loss, I can well understand your feelings
I recall my visit about three years ago.
We spent a couple of hours and enjoyed the time.
I do hope it will be restored to what it looked like when it was built.
These monuments are part of our DNA - siva
1 person likes this
@JohnRoberts (109857)
• Los Angeles, California
16 Apr 19
I have been there several times myself. I can't imagine how crushing this is to a French person. It's bad for the rest of us.
1 person likes this
