Using abortion to obtain baby gender of choice
By thewatchlist
@thewatchlist (653)
United States
December 26, 2006 3:15pm CST
There have been Reuters and AP articles within the last 2 weeks about how abortions are being used on a wide scale in India and China for the purpose of gender selection, as in people are aborting female fetuses because they want male children. In India, the estimate is that it happens at the rate of about 7,000 gender selective abortions per day. There have also been some cases where female infants have been killed shortly after birth.
See the article here...
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/killing-of-girls-still-present-in-india-says-unicef/2006/12/14/1165685831627.html
http://www.financialexpress.com/latest_full_story.php?content_id=149233
Supposedly census rates are showing the male to female ratio for child births is becoming more and more skewed each year. While females make up 3 to 5 percent more of the population than males in most countries, India has about 7% fewer females than males. The article stated that the gender selective abortions and infanticide were more prevalent among the educated, which UNICEF believed would be a bigger problem to tackle because it isn't just an issue of education.
1) Is this article and others likely accurately describing conditions in India?
2) What do you feel are the primary reasons behind it (practice of dowries or other cultural practices that place high importance on male children or another reason)?
3) Do you believe that there may be negative impact in the future due to the imbalance in males and females?
4) If you answered yes to #3, what do you feel needs to be done to address the issue?
*** The purpose of this discussion is not to pass judgement on anyone, but instead learn peoples opinions on a topic that some might find very controversial. Any abusive remarks left towards other members will be reported and -'d. ***
3 people like this
27 responses
@vivasuzi (4127)
• United States
27 Dec 06
As to #3, yes I think in the future it will be more and more of a problem. They need females to make more children, and eventually it sounds like they won't have enough females to go around! As to #4, I think it's their country, not ours, and they should handle it, so I really have no advice there.
BTW - Why would anyone would think males are more important than females?? There are many great females in the world! I do think it's a cultural thing where some cultures feel men are more important, but as a female, I say that's complete nonsense.
I'm also anti-abortion, but since you asked us to stay on topic I won't go there :)
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
27 Dec 06
Thanks for commenting. As to why people think males are more important, I think it is a religious thing. Look at the most religions. Judeo-christian and muslim scripture both give more value to men than they do women. I'm sure that it isn't just these 3 religions that do so, but imagine the #s of people in the world that fall into one of those 3.
Even though women eventually were given the right to vote here in the US, they often lag behind in equal treatment on the job and elsewhere... I know shorting the ladies $1 per hour isn't the same as what happens in some countries, but we are supposedly a model of human rights (or at least we claim to be). : {
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
27 Dec 06
Mapiklfish1:
I guess we will have to agree to disagree. It is more than just submitting to a husband. There are verses in both the Old and New Testament that set differences in the value of a man and the value of a woman (including verses that actually mention values/estimations in shekels). This discussion is not where we should debate this though. I've you want me to let you know the verses, send me a message and I will send you some of the verses caused me to form my opinion.
@mapiklfish1 (212)
• United States
27 Dec 06
Actually women are not valued less by God than men. God has made the world to run in a certain order and when we take it out of order we get into trouble. Yes, the Bible does tell wives to submit to their husbands but husbands are to love (cherish) their wives as Christ loved the church and gave His life for her. So husbands are to be willing to give their lives for their wives. That doesn't sound second class to me! When Jesus was on earth, He valued women and did not treat them any differently than men.
@babs6219 (153)
• United States
27 Dec 06
In China, because of their overpopulation, couples are only allowed one child. I believe it's due to an honor thing, and carrying on the family name, but for quite a while now, girls are given up for adoption. That's why there are so many girls available. There are even documented cases of infanticide, both with the parental consent and without. In many cases, if a family has a second child, the entire family can be penalized and the chaild could be removed or murdered.
1 person likes this
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
27 Dec 06
The family can be penalized or fined. The govt is not rushing in and murdering children that I've heard of. Also, there are conditions where you are allowed to have 2 children under the their One Child Policy and not suffer fines. In addition to that, people are visiting Hong Kong or other places to have a child and then come back with it because apparently only children born in mainland China seem to count towards this program.
As for the One Child Policy or adoption rules, please check some of my earlier comments as I've included links on those topics.
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
27 Dec 06
Thanks for commenting. I agree that I used the wrong terminology.
What I didn't want was people to stereotype or go off on huge rants about how everyone in India is evil or direct abusive comments towards other users here (which I did mention in my little disclaimer)... I'm used to seeing the forums over at yahoo and it is absolutely disgusting the way people will attack an entire culture or ethnicity based on the actions of a single person in the news.
@locolady (374)
• Canada
27 Dec 06
thats been going on for several years now in China - go look in the orphanages 99% of them are female and they cant adopt them out as fast as there coming in.. Besides think of it this way if you live in a country where you can only have one child due to the laws of the country and in equality laws (what equality)men are the heirs of family pride tis better to be a male then a female born over there,,,makes me very thankful that I live in Canada...
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
27 Dec 06
Thanks for commenting.
China's One Child Policy is interesting to say the least. There are rules set up where you are allowed to have 2 children. Each thing I have read says something different about having a second child that doesn't fit the rules that allow for it (ranging from paying a fine to being sterilized) so I don't know the real official rule there...
Here is an interesting article if you want to learn more about it...
http://www.crlp.org/ww_asia_1child.html
@mkirby624 (1598)
• United States
27 Dec 06
I think the reason behind it is that the population in those countries is so high that if people have female children, those females will just have more children..therefore there will be more women to have MORE children. But men can't have a baby all by themselves, so this cuts down on the population surplus. I think it the future, it would eventually be detremental to the society.
1 person likes this
@vivasuzi (4127)
• United States
27 Dec 06
I have heard that before but in my opinion, if they want to cut the population they should tell everyone to stop having kids for awhile! Why have a kid just at the off chance it's the male?? Oh well, something like that would never go over in America, at least there would be millions of protestors. That's one thing we can rely on here!
1 person likes this
@rajendra1977 (57)
• India
27 Dec 06
In my view that will be a big problem in the future. but in india there are laws which prohibits such type of acts. there are people who cross the law. i think in india it was controlled a lot and people also not seeing Baby girl as a problem. iam sorry to say i donot know anything about the same in china.
1 person likes this
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
27 Dec 06
Thank you for commenting.
I agree, with the numbers of people in India, this is not something that everyone is doing. Even though the numbers sound large, it is not widespread like some would believe.
In the United States we actually have a much higher % of aborted pregnancies. From some data that I have seen online, it is just under 25% of pregnancies ending in abortion here vs less than 3% of pregnancies in India ending in abortion.
@magikrose (5429)
• United States
27 Dec 06
I have heard in many places that especially in China it is more important and acceptable to give birth to a boy first and then girls after. Even tho I understand that there society is way diffrent than America I do not agree with aborting an innocent child just because of its gender. I think it will cause problems for the future cause there will be an over abundance of males and not enough females thatthey will be looking to other places to find a decent women to fit there needs.
Please dont get me wrong I have NO problem with interracial dating and marriage, but the problem will happen that is they dont just let these females be born then they are going to loos the 1 things that makes them diffrent from everyone else, there herritage and there history.
1 person likes this
@birthlady (5609)
• United States
27 Dec 06
This is not new. Yes, I believe it is true that for many years, female infanticide, and then elective abortion for gender selection, have been major problems in both China and India. Without first reading the article, I cannot judge whether or not it is reflective of accurate conditions in India, especially because I do not live in, nor have I ever visited India nor China.
1 person likes this
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
27 Dec 06
Thank you for your comments. The articles I listed where both covering the same topic. The first one seems a little on the sensationalist side while the second is from an Indian website. Both address similar concerns and talk about the need for a solution.
I am in the exact same boat as you, as I have never visited either country. That is why I am hoping to hear from some from both of those countries to see their opinions and to hear if they feel the articles are accurate. I'm assuming that they both are at least partially correct, but even the news these days must be taken with a grain of salt.
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
27 Dec 06
In my opinion, I believe abortion is abortion (which I do not think should be illegal). I do agree that killing babies after they are born is cruel but I think that these cases are far and few between. According to the article they were drowned with sand, buried alive, or hung upside down... In my opinion, one could at least have mercy on a victim that you have no grudge against.
I'm sure if we look at our own society we can find extremes to pick and publicize due to their level of depravity that would also misrepresent the norms here.
@caj1202 (162)
• United States
27 Dec 06
that's a sad situation and i believe that it's morally bad but for them it's just right. That's why, we should pray for those nations that they will be reached out by the grace of God and more missionaries will go there to let them hear about God.
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
27 Dec 06
Thank you for your comments. I do not believe there is a problem with religion in that country. I am assuming that you are refering to Christian missionaries. To be fair, the Bible does not portray women as equal to man, which is where I believe the issue lies.
@reinydawn (11643)
• United States
26 Dec 06
I have heard, and I have no proof to back this up, that in China, many female babies are not nurtured and therefore die. I don't know why. A friend of mine was going looking at adopting children when they found out that China has MANY female babies to adopt. There are no boys to adopt in China, only girls. They gladly adopted one and are going through the process for a little sister.
I am also curious about this.
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
26 Dec 06
I would guess that his has to do with the One Child policy and wanting a child that one child to be a male (carry on the name and what not)...
As for adoptions, China recently set a series of new rules/benchmarks pertaining to foreigners adopting Chinese babies due to the high demand.
For more information on that, see the following:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/12/20/asia/china.php
@babykay (2131)
• Ireland
27 Dec 06
I know you said you didn't want to hear judgmental replies so I will apologise now for being judgmental. Quite frankly I cannot see how anyone cannot be "judgmental"about murderers of little girls. The parents who do this should be completely ashamed of themselves. They do not deserve children - of any gender. Societies which favour men over women and boys over girls - who knows what the solution is to this? All I can say is that is is very deeply ingrained and perhaps education can solve it. By education I mean, moral education, reminding people that it is WRONG by all laws and by all religions to kill little babies. Obviously there will be very negative implications for the future with the huge imbalance that these practices create, it is being felt already in China where women are being kidnapped to provide wives. Many men can't get married, not enough wives to go round! Perhaps as these effects are felt more, the equal value of girls and boys will be realised.
1 person likes this
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
27 Dec 06
Thank you for your comments. Because this is a very controversial topic, I do not doubt that it is difficult for one not to be judgement. I should have worded my warning a little different. I do not want to see any harsh statements or generalized judgemental comments towards Indians or Chinese. I don't feel that you are being harsh and you were not directing your comments at these cultures as a whole so I'm not reporting or -'ing your comments.
As for societies that favor males over females, I agree it is an issue that needs looked at. It occurs everywhere across the globe, including here in the US. Even though women have been given the right to vote, they are still not always treated as equals (as in regards to pay, job status, social expectations, etc).
I do agree with your last statement about this potentially raising the value of women in society. I would imagine that if this trend were to continue, this generation as it grows older will quickly see the issue that the previous generation has caused. It also might turn the tide in the opposite direction. For example, the parents might not feel the need to pay a dowry if marriage to their daughter becomes a greater honor due to the unfortunate shortage of women. It is too bad that this is what it takes, but if some good comes of it then at least there is a positive in there.
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
27 Dec 06
Thank you for commenting. I do agree that we are not in a position to judge. People will and can judge how they would act if they were injected into a situation, but until it actually happens, there is no way to truly understand.
@bimmer999 (1159)
• Philippines
27 Dec 06
wow thats just sick..IMO people should not have kids if they prefer one gender over the other. thats just cruel to the unborn child.
1 person likes this
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
27 Dec 06
Thanks for your comments. It is my understanding that most cultures prefer male children over females. If you have information that says otherwise, please do share.
@djbtol (5493)
• United States
27 Dec 06
Abortion is murder, as is infanticide. Does not matter the reason. When a society is accepting of killing babies, or old and sick people, it is a clear picture of how perverted the society has become. When it comes to murder, the Bible leaves no room for discussion. God gives life and God takes life. Your opinions and mine are meaningless.
@calvin222 (1606)
• India
27 Dec 06
this is basically premeditated murder and the life of the culprit should be aborted itself. how can some one do this to an innocent and defenceless foetus.
@dentonbecca (38)
• United States
27 Dec 06
I think that culture is not quite catching up with technology.
@cutejhan18 (910)
• Philippines
27 Dec 06
That hilarious. You will going to abort the baby because u don't like the gender. It's still your baby wheither it is a boy or a girl. Y don;t u wait for the gender that u like to come. Abortion is not solution.
@fayzah (253)
• United States
27 Dec 06
I think that this is sad, and these billboards should be banned, what is the differance between a boy or a girl, other then in some cultures they believe that a boy will bring them future security by working for them, but in the 20th centery, women are also big bread winners, and would be willing to help out her family if given the chance. yes it will eventually unbalance the ration of men to women.
@thewatchlist (653)
• United States
27 Dec 06
Thank you for your comments.
"... these billboards should be banned..."
As in you think that we should not discuss this issue? If this piece of information is true, then why can it not be discussed in a public forum? By educating and better informing ourselves and sharing information, we can work together to make this world a better place for everyone. What should we talk about if not something like this?
@mikaghi (388)
• United States
27 Dec 06
i think the root of this problem is the treatment of women in countries like India and China. although we have come very far in technology and development, society still has double standards and women are treated differently.
the only way to solve this problem is by educating people and raising the living standards of women and girls.
1 person likes this
