What happens to a soul of an ubaptized child that dies...  

I feel that some of what you said has some merit, especially the second part of your last sentence.

Regards...

Not to worry, EVERY child under the age of accountability will eventually have enterance into God's Kingdom.

Christ said that baptism is part of fulfilling ALL righteousness (Matt.3:15).

It also appears that it is a part of the "remission of sin" and the pathway of recieving the Holy Spirit. See Acts 2:38.

And of course, having the Holy Spirit, will eventually lead you into ALL truth. See John 16:13.

Sorry...not an angel. All angels were made in the beginning.

I think Indrajit meant an "Angelic like innocence", and not that the child is actually an Angelic being...

Actually, the Bible teaches that the soul goes to be with the Lord, immediately upon death -- that is, the souls of the saved. The Judgment is when we are all resurrected, our physical bodies are resurrected, as Jesus was the third day after dying on the cross. So far, He is the only One Who has been resurrected, but all will be at the Judgment, "some to eternal Life, and some to Death (which is not to say they cease to exist, but to punishment)".

As for babies, they go to be with the Lord when they die. It is not spelled out explicitly in Scripture, but the references lead most Christians to believe there is an age of accountability for children, at which point they know right from wrong, and at such time they must accept Jesus to be saved. That age is not the same for everyone, and we cannot know it for sure. Only God knows when a child knows right from wrong.

King David, who was a prophet, said that he would see his son in Heaven -- the son that died at birth, and so we understand from that and other passages that babies go to Heaven. Generally, Heaven is considered to be the reward after the Judgment, and before that time, we go, without our physical bodies, to be with the Lord. Jesus said to the one thief on the cross: "This day shall you be with me in Paradise".

Nowhere is it written that baptism is required for salvation: again, look at the thief on the cross who could not be baptized since he was dying when he was saved.
Studying the Scriptures you will find that baptism is the first (usually the first) act of obedience to the Lord, after salvation, NOT a requirement of salvation.

Very interesting comments INDEED tds!

I have a few questions for you...

1) Where in the bible does it SPECIFICALLY say that a saved soul goes IMMEDIATELY to heaven at death? PLEASE be specific with the bible verses AND NOT necessarily with your own personal view or private interpretation of them. I'm interested in specific bible verses ONLY. Beause if you hold this view- then the implication is that we are judged and rewarded at the very moment of death and that we have inherent immortality as one of our characteristics as humans. In other words, WE can't die!

2) If saved souls are ALREADY CONSCIOUSLY in heaven with God, THEN why is there a need for a future resurrection AND JUDGEMENT as the bible declares, if we are ALREADY judged and rewarded at the very moment of death? To judge WHAT... an inert and lifless body? What would be the purpose? Why would an inanimate body be needed if the UNDYING conscious soul can function so much freely without the restrictions of the body AND IS ALREADY IN HEAVEN?

3) Will the RESURRECTED "disensouled", inert, and lifless CLAY body which has no capacity or ability to think, reason, or undersatnd ANYTHING on its own, STAND ALONE in front of God to be judged on judgement day? And if that's the case, what's the purpose of judging something that can't see, hear, talk, feel, comprehend and lacks everything else that's associated with being alive and having intelligence?

4) Or will the conscious soul be brought down from heaven and INSERTED back into its own body so that it can understand the judgement, sentence or reward that is about to be given it? If this is the case, then once again, please show specific bible verses that back this up.

I know it's more than a couple of questions- but that is exactly the kinds of questions which arise when one advocates that we humans are actually "undying immortal souls".

Tell me, what does, 1 Timothy 6:16, mean to you, when it says that "God ALONE is immortal"? Because this is a verse that needs no ones interpretation. It speaks for itself! And yet, is in direct opposite of what you advocate. So explain this to us in light of your view and the other questions I've postd above.

As far as the "age of accountability" goes, I totally agree with you, God, and He alone, knows what that age specifically is for each and everyone of us. I've never disagreed with that.

And you're also right when you say that it isn't explicitly spelled out in scripture that babies go to heaven immediately at death. As a matter of fact, it isn't spelled out that ANYONE goes to heaven immediately upon death! And there's a reason for that. Because NO ONE does! Everyone remains unconsciously dead in their graves UNTIL the promised resurrection. However, The bible EXPILICITLY SAYS that God ALONE is immortal!

So that means that We ALL DIE! It doesn't mean your body does and NOT YOU- the soul! That would equate you with God making you a spirit and immortal too, and therefore not needing the gift of God, ETERNAL LIFE, to live forever! But rather what this means is that "YOU"- THE SOUL (THE WHOLE MAN), which is both soul and body, your WHOLE essence, DIES!

Remember what we are and how we were made. God formed us- or shaped us out of the dust of the earth and breathed into our nostrils the breath of life and man- this clay silhouette, BECAME A LIVING SOUL! Please see Genesis 2:7. So we don't have a soul- WE ARE souls! Without Gods breath of life we'd be dead- or dead souls!

King David DID NOT SAY that he would see his son IN HEAVEN. This is merely your assumption. And that belief would contradict what Christ himself said, "That NO ONE has ever ascended into heaven"! Christ said these words LONG AFTER the death of David's son, so that is proof enough that the child isn't and didn't go to heaven. Please see John 3:13.

What King David was merely implying is that his son couldn't come to him (being dead), but that he would go to him, as in joining him- but in death! And David has done exactly that. The bible says that David IS DEAD, BURIED, AND HAS NOT GONE INTO HEAVEN. Please see Acts 2:29, 34.

The thief on the cross DID NOT go to heaven on the day of the cross as you imply. Three days AFTER the cross, christ said he had NOT YET asceneded to the Father in Heaven. Please see: John 20:17. So how could the thief have gone to heaven with Christ on that very day? Besides that, if king David is not yet in Heaven, then no one is.

And lastly, I never said that baptism was "a requirement" for salvation, even though it's something that could certainly be favoribly argued for. Go back and read the original posters comments, where he quotes John 3:5, "Unless a man be born again of water and spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God";

I knew the implication here is baptism, but the posters context is in regards to a child. So if you look carefully at my response to this particular line, you'll see that I placed my emphasis on "A MAN", to make the distinction from a child, indicating that a "MAN" is someone already having attained the age of accountability, rather than implying that baptism is required for salvation.

Anyways, if you care to answer some of these questions, please feel free to do so.

Regards...

I have to agree with thedogshrink... I can't answer starflames questions though... I'm too sleepy for that... I'd love to hear what thedogshrink has to say... cheers! :)

Hi Rem,

Well it's okay... get yourself a good and restful sleep and perhaps at some other time, you can share your views.

I too am getting a little tired, but I really am wanting to make an effort in getting to the magic number of 500 posts. I can't wait to be able to copy and paste! LOL... But I still have a very,very long way to go.

God Bless...

well, the passage you're referring to in matthew 19 says that the kingdom of heaven belongs to SUCH AS THESE... Jesus probably meant that the kingdom belonged to those who had a childlike faith... he didn't exactly say that it belonged to the children, but to such as these... so it doesn't necessarily support the view that children go to heaven after they die... it's still debatable... but then, that's just my interpretation... cheers! :)

haha! i wanna get to 500 posts so i can copy and paste too! hahaha! goodluck to the both of us then... ;p

I'll be signing off in a while... you should take a break, too... :)

Oh, I am... and good luck with that magical 500! hehe....

Cheers...

The conditions of baptism:

Faith (Mark 18:18, Acts 8:37)
Penance (Acts 2:83, Matthew 3:8)
Personal Request (Acts 8:36)
I doubt a newborn could "fulfil" these, despite Tit 3:5.
Even more, as 1Peter 3:21 highlights, the baptism is the confession of a pure soul not a spiritual remission of the sins.

Perhaps you mean, Matt.18:1-6 and/or Matt.19:13-14.

Baptizing ALONE will not get anyone into Gods Kingdom... but I think that it is a part of fulfilling righteousness for any whose reached the age of accountability. Please see Matt.3:15 and Acts 2:38.

I agree, everyone is born a baby! Can't get any kinder than that.

Hmmm... I'd really be interested in seeing biblical evidence supporting these views.

I am sensitiv person and im alwready a bit sad about that but that life. I know that they are ok and that they are happy with dear Good. My father died i was in pain and i once saw him in my dream asking me what do i want him to do for me, what wish do i have? Nice dream. Im catolic and i belive in Good so like i sad that boys or girls are just fine. WE HAVE TO BELIVE, THAT THE POINT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IF YOU BELIVE IN GOOD, CAN YOU QUESTION THIS???????
O ITS SO SAD

There is nothing anywhere in the Bible that teaches
infant or any other baptism, apart from an experience
of repentance, and confessing one's sin to God.

Jesus continually rebuked the religious leaders of His
day, for making up doctrines that were NOT according to
the teaching of His truth. Doctrine and or tradition, that
is not according to truth,keeps people in bondage.

Jesus said (concerning children and heaven) - (Matt.
19:14) "Suffer (meaning LET) the little children come unto
Me, for of such is the Kingdom of Heaven."

In (Matt.18: 3) He said:"Except you become converted and
become as little children, you shall in no wise enter the
Kingdom of heaven."

In 2nd Samuel 12:23 (Old Testament) after David's 7 day
,old son died, David said:"I will go to him one day, but
he shall not return to me."

The Bible is your roadmap and information book on how to
come to know God the Father personally, through acceptance of His son
Jesus. It also answers many questions in life. Why just
accept everything that your church teaches, without reading
the book for yourself? Religious leaders 'can' be wrong,
and when they are - they lead many down the wrong path.

Every place in the New Testament, where baptism is taught,
it is 'only' where adults are involved. Baptism does not
get one into heaven, but is a commandment to be fullfilled
by each believer. It should be a very sacred and special time.
I know it was for me.

And just believing in God isn't enough according to scripture.
It says that the devils believe and tremble, and they're not
going to be in heaven. One must receive (or accept Jesus) into
their heart/life as Saviour and Lord, and then do their best
to live as the Bible directs.

One last thing - there is also no place in the Bible that teaches
that babies or adults will be angels, or that one will sit around
on a cloud, playing a harp. I don't know where people get these
foolish ideas.

If you don't have a Bible, you can go to this link to read one,
or choose to have it read to you:
www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=

Hope I have helped you somehow. God bless.

C.C.