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What do you think about judicial activism?  email this discussion to a friend?

myLot reputation of 52/100. katran (321)   ranked 445 out of 3,985 in politics 4 years ago

I am taking this fantastic class right now on the philosophy of law, and an issue got raised in class today that made me second guess everything I thought about law, judicial process, and judicial interpretation. Basically, there are two common views on law. Some people believe that any statute passed by a governing body is law. This is usually the only definition that anyone thinks of. There is, however, another definition of law, one set forth by St. Thomas Aquinas. This definition says that if a law is not rational or does not seek the common good, then it is not a law. One good example of this is the Fugitive Slave Acts of the pre-Civil War Era. There were many judges who refused to uphold those acts because they believed them irrational and unjust.

This brings up a question that I think needs to be thought about. Many people are dead set against judicial activists and think that judges should only interpret and apply the law exactly as written in the books, no matter what it says. This might SEEM okay at first glance, but it is likely that justice systems are not meant to function that way. Think of things like Fugitive Slave Acts, Jim Crow laws, Roe v. Wade (though I don't agree with it I know a lot of other of you will), the anti-sodomy laws in Georgia, etc., etc. Would we really expect judges to uphold laws that are immoral and unjust? I would not expect that at all. What do you think about it?

 

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tags:  activism, civil war, e class, function, injustice
 
1. myLot reputation of 83/100. irisheyes (3349)   ranked 213 out of 3,985 in politics   4 years ago

First thing that comes to my mind is if the law seems unjust, we should work to change it. Saying the law is the law right or wrong is like saying my country right or wrong. When we feel our country is wrong, we should work to change it. How far we go with the civil disobedience, I would be determined by how wrong or injust the law was and how many people it was hurting.

I've certainly heard of archaic laws that are on the books still but are basically just ignored. Some of the fornication rulings etc.


myLot reputation of 52/100. katran (321)   ranked 445 out of 3,985 in politics  4 years ago

I think you are right about that. It is everyone's responsibility to work to change laws that are bad, but I think judges are in a unique position where they have the ability to set that kind of thing in motion. Obviously an activist judge cannot change a law, but they certainly can draw attention to it by overturning convictions. I guess to make a long story short, it is our initial responsibility to make sure bad laws don't exist, but judges can help catch the ones that slip through the cracks.

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2. myLot reputation of 91/100. KatieDidit (885)   ranked 657 out of 3,985 in politics   4 years ago

There are laws that are unjust. Never the less I am not in favor of judicial activism.

Judicial activism usually involves one man or woman legislating from the bench though it can involve a very small group such as an appeals court of judges.

That's very different than the legislative process where a bill is proposed, debated in committee and subcommittees, passed from house to senate, or proposed as a citizen initiative and voted upon by all eligible voters.

A judges duty is to interpret and apply the law, not abolish or make new law. If a judge believes a law should be changed or abolished then he /she should go through the same thing everyone else does. Petition for a citizen initiative, enlist a congressman to sponsor a bill.

If we allow judicial activism to stand than we loose the checks and balances the system was designed in and we will be at the mercy of whatever a judge believes regardless of what the law says.

This isn't just about bad laws falling because of good judges. It's about good laws falling because of bad judges as well. You can't have judicial activism without getting both.


myLot reputation of 52/100. katran (321)   ranked 445 out of 3,985 in politics  4 years ago

"Legislating from the bench" is a phrase that is tossed around that people do not really think about. No judge can "legislate" from the bench. The Supreme Court of the nation or of a state can declare a law unconstitutional, in which case it is overturned, but that is well within their power as dictated by law. An appellate court judge can interpret the law in any way they see fit. If they choose not to convict someone or to overturn a conviction, that is also well within their powers as directed by the law. They do not change the law in any way by refusing to sentence someone under it.

It is simply a matter of...well...opinion, to be honest. Some judges believe their job is to apply the law as written. Some believe it is their job to apply JUSTICE. That does not mean that they change the law or even that they overstep their bounds, believe it or not. Oh, and judges are either elected or appointed by people that we elect, so they are just as much a representative as any other branch of government.

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3. myLot reputation of 83/100. xfahctor (7620)   ranked 41 out of 3,985 in politics   4 years ago

Judicial activism is a contradiction in terms.
Courts are suposed to be impartial, unbiased and propper and true expression of law. An "empathetic" judge is derelict in executing the letter of his legal obligation. There is leaway given in many circumstances as to how the law is applied, but again, only with in the expression of the law. If a law does not pass state and united states constitutional muster, then it is the duty of the apelate courts to strike down the law, or through the state or united states supreme courts, not themselves ignore the law.


myLot reputation of 52/100. katran (321)   ranked 445 out of 3,985 in politics  4 years ago

Well, that's just the thing. You might think it is a contradiction in terms, but that is a matter of opinion at best and simply a fallacy at worst. As a law student, I am beginning to realize that the law is NEVER as cut and dry as people want it to be. For example, take contract law. What if Person A sues Person B for a breach of contract because Person B was supposed to get some stuff delivered to Person A in a certain amount of time. Now suppose this comes before a judge and the judge reviews the contract and hears the story and finds out that Person B could not deliver the items because there was a railroad strike. Now, the contract made no provision for extenuating circumstances, so technically if the judge is following the letter of the law he would have to punish Person B and make him pay reparations to Person A. However, common sense dictates that there is nothing Person B could have done about it, and therefore some judges would refuse to punish Person B, and you know what? They are allowed to do so!

Now take the example of the Fugitive Slave Laws. Do you HONESTLY believe that if an alleged slave (because many so-called slaves that were caught and "sent back" South were actually legitimately free, but no proof was required under this law) was brought before a judge, potentially to be sent South into slavery, that this judge should sentence them because it is their duty to follow the law? I would hope that no judge would do so!


myLot reputation of 83/100. xfahctor (7620)   ranked 41 out of 3,985 in politics  4 years ago

Ok, your a law student. The contract scenario, it is not nessesarlily the contract the judge is interpreting in itself, but how the law views the contract. I'm sure you know, contract law varies state to state. In many cases, the judge would in all likelyhood, rule in favor of the plaintiff, unless their was a legal remedy in the law that ruled a contract cannot be considered in breach due to an organized labor action. It would not matter then that there was no such stipulation in the contract. I'll take that one step further. If such a stipulation in the law existed and the contract stated explicitly that a strike was not considered a viable excuse, the law would then render the contract in itself void and could not be considered breeched.


myLot reputation of 83/100. xfahctor (7620)   ranked 41 out of 3,985 in politics  4 years ago

"Now take the example of the Fugitive Slave Laws. Do you HONESTLY believe that if an alleged slave (because many so-called slaves that were caught and "sent back" South were actually legitimately free, but no proof was required under this law) was brought before a judge, potentially to be sent South into slavery, that this judge should sentence them because it is their duty to follow the law? I would hope that no judge would do so!"
Ok, now were getting interesting.
At the time, it was in fact wrong moraly, but, constitutionaly legal. The remedy of course was the passing of the amendment banning slavery. This trumped the right of the states to exercise extradition.
This is a pretty extreme example of course, I realize that. We don't have much in the way of LEGAL atrocities these days of that scale.


myLot reputation of 52/100. katran (321)   ranked 445 out of 3,985 in politics  4 years ago

Well, some people might say that Proposition 8 is a legal atrocity. (I personally would disagree with them, but oh well.) You are right that the constitutional amendment was the right course of action, but what about up until then? The judges should have sentenced even wrongly accused blacks back into slavery until the amendment passed?

I realize it is a difficult thing to swallow, which is why I started the discussion. I am just playing Devil's Advocate, because my teacher made ME think about it and now I want to see what other people think about it.

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4. myLot reputation of 95/100. OreoCookie3 (22476)   4 years ago

I've never thought about that before. Thanks for the topic Katran. If a law was unjust then it should not be upheld. I'm thinking about something everyone thinks about from time to time. Spanking. I did a paper on spanking and the law a few years ago. I don't remember it all, but from what I remember each state has it's own idea as to what is excessive and what is appropriate. Now if a law is so vague on what is abuse and what is appropriate how can a judge rule? In a grocery store a mother was hitting a little one. She was going off on that kid. Someone called 911 and the mother was taken away in handcuffs and the kid was put in protective custody. The consensus was, for the people that heard of it, if she was this bad in a public place, what was the kid getting at home. I don't know the outcome of that arrest..if it went to trial or not.

It seems you can hit your kid all you want, but don't leave bruises that a child can show a guidance counselor at school also. So it seems that 'spanking' is only legal when you don't get caught doing it in public in some states, and permissible in other states.


myLot reputation of 52/100. katran (321)   ranked 445 out of 3,985 in politics  4 years ago

That is a good example that you bring up. I personally don't have a problem with spanking, but people do hide child abuse under the guise of spanking and that is not right. My parents spanked me, but they never hurt me. It was usually just barely one slap on the bottom or sometimes the hand, and it was more for the purpose of embarrassment or surprise or to get my attention. Spanking is not supposed to be about disciplining the child through pain. If any law lets a parent get away with pure child abuse, I do not want the judges that I elected or that my representatives appointed upholding that law.

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5. myLot reputation of 63/100. ParaTed2k (6340)   ranked 324 out of 3,985 in politics   4 years ago

Judicial activism is a cancer on society. "Judges" who take part in it are enemies of freedom.

There is a difference between judicial activism and civil disobedience. Civil disobedience is knowingly breaking a law to call attention to something you feel is wrong about law. Judicial activism is abusing authority and the public trust.
When someone chooses to use civil disobedience to make their point, they are still subject to being arrested, tried and convicted. They are putting their future on the line for their cause.

"Judges" who practice judicial activism are cowards who hide behind their robes. They are just as quilty of breaking the law as the civil disobedient, but they feel they are above the law and not subject to it.

Judges who disagree with a law should do what the rest of us do when we see an unjust law... work to change it. They shouldn't abuse their authority to simply ignore it.

How can a judge ethically preside over a trial where the defended ignored the law for their own purposes when the judge is just as guilty of the same thing?


myLot reputation of 52/100. katran (321)   ranked 445 out of 3,985 in politics  4 years ago

Hmm, I can see you have a strong opinion on the matter. ;P

I used to think along the same lines as you, but you are making one assumption that I am not sure we can assume: that judges are abusing their authority by choosing not to apply a law that they think is unjust. Criminals ignore the law because they are selfish. Judges do not so much ignore the law as bend it where they deem that it should be bent. I don't know. I will have to look into it more myself, but I think that it is an interesting concept that people don't really put much thought into.

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