"Internment/Resettlement"..trying to get some facts out  

"Now a proposal awaiting Defense Secretary Robert Gates' approval would allow the military to set up regional teams to assist civilian authorities in dealing with the impact of the swine flu pandemic. And some observers see this level of government preparedness as little more than a pretext for tyranny."

Would this be the same kind of tyranny that allows the Florida National Guard to set up regional teams following a hurricane to assits civilian authorities in dealing with the impact of a big storm? The National Guard is usually in place just outside of the areas that are going to be hit before the storm arrives so that they can get in and set up quickly in order to distribute food, water & tarps to cover roofs. FEMA gets in quickly as well. When Hurricane Wilma left us without power for 5 days I welcomed this government assistance since we had been prepared for 3 days and our supplies had run out.

It's already been reported (somewhere) that the guard would assist regional & local health officials with testing and the administration of medication if the swine flu comes back as a true pandemic during the normal flu season. I live in a rural county among a series of other rural counties and I can tell you that our Health Depts. are small. Even with the assistance of the few hospitals we have in the area, large numbers of sick people needing treatment for this flu would quickly overwhelm the ability of the people responsible for providing care. This is why the Guard would be needed...to provide additional staff for testing and treatment.

The idea of mandatory quarantines is flawed in several areas. Primarily, once you present with the illness, the possibility that you've already infected other members of your family exists. Will entire families be taken to quarantine camps? Secondly, as soon as word gets out that something like this is even being seriously considered, people will stop seeking treatment which will result in more deaths from this flu. Also, transporting sick people to "camps" instead of treating them and sending them home puts those responsible for transportation at risk, those responsible for maintaining the "camps" and caring for the sick at risk. It also increases the liklihood of REAL riots when there is an easier and more logical solution...get treatment and go home.

I have no faith and little respect for the ACLU because of their track record and take what they have to say about most issues with a ton of salt.

I am not always a fan of the ACLU, for instance, when they bully small school districts into banning Christmas concerts, etc., but they aren't the sort of people to oppose a liberal administration lightly. The words Civil Liberties is right there in the organization's title. Due process is one of our civil liberties.

I wondered though, because I see on the news now and then that there are people who have disregarded the evacuation notices and stay on at home during hurricanes. Do they forcibly remove people from their property and transport them to an evacuation center during a hurricane?

I don't think that preparing for vaccine riots and mandatory quarantines is quite the same as providing evacuation and rescue services in a hurricane.

There's something about the word "mandatory" that sticks in my constitutional craw, if you know what I mean.

No, Rollo, the term "mandatory evacuation" is actually a misnomer because no one has the authority to force you to leave your home for any reason...hurricane, fire, flood included. You also can't be forced to evacuate a home that you're renting, which is something we discovered many years ago when we were vacationing on the outer banks of North Carolina. Going to evacuation centers is strictly voluntary and usually consists of a school gymnasium or auditorium somewhere in the community. Here in Florida, even on the islands and far down in the Keys, no one can force you to leave your home and there are those who don't regardless of how bad the storm is projected to be. My family and I have personal standards depending on the strength of an incoming storm and it's track. Our house is wind rated to 150mph so we didn't evacuate when Wilma was coming because she wasn't strong enough. What happened though was that she intensified practically on top of us and there was massive loss of electricity to a very large area because so many trees brought down power lines and so many poles came down as well.

"I don't think that preparing for vaccine riots and mandatory quarantines is quite the same as providing evacuation and rescue services in a hurricane."

I agree, it's worse! Imagine how outraged you would feel if someone wanted to remove a sick family member of yours to some quarantine facility. Imagine how outraged YOU would be if they told you that you had to go, too, because you've been exposed. I do not for one second believe that the American people would stand for something like that and...trust me...if anyone tried something even remotely like that down here, they'd be shot. I don't believe that Floridians are the only folks in the country who would react violently to something like that which is one of the reasons why a "mandatory evacuation" is not and cannot be truly mandatory. The other reason is the Constitution...and a pandemic cannot be used to overstep that document.

Okay, well let's look at the classification of swine flu as one of the "quarantinable communicable diseases". Now, we would like to think that the military wouldn't go along with interning US citizens, but it's already happened. FDR rounded up and interned Japanese-Americans, even those who were born in the US, about 62% of whom were US citizens. The army not only went along, but a Lt. General was in charge of much of it.

Worse yet, it was ruled Constitutional by the Supreme Court. And it was accomplished through an executive order, bypassing Congress. Obama is fond of both executive orders and FDR.

It's not a huge leap to imagine that if they declared a state of emergency because of a disease that is already legally a "quarantinable communicable disease" that there might be an attempt to isolate and if necessary, intern those who have become exposed or infected.

There weren't many who stood up for the Japanese Americans that were forcibly relocated during WWII. Fear and paranoia were widespread after Pearl Harbor, resentments and racism did as well. If millions are projected to become infected and possibly die from a disease, will the fear and paranoia be any less?

These are just things to think about and be aware of. The camps exist. We have had internment of citizens by executive order of a president before. We have the epidemic that isn't still being treated as if it were a national emergency. I hope my worries are all just paranoia, but I can't dismiss them just yet.

Rollo, why do you believe that rounding folks up and risking a national uprising that would get thousands hurt or killed is a better option than quarantining sick people in their homes? Do you really believe that someone who is sick with this flu is going to be hanging out at a mall, going to school or to work? This flu has proven itself to be unpredictable so, yes, there is concern about the upcoming flu season, but it's also proven itself to be relatively mild in many cases.

The internment of Japanese-Americans following the attack on Pearl Harbor is a far cry from this and, by the way, that period in our history is something that the majority of this country is ashamed of. This was a military operation, yes, but we were involved in a world war because we had been attacked, the general public was not as well informed as we are today and, yes, there was fear of Japanese-Americans. Obama can be as fond of FDR and executive orders as he likes but I'm sure he's also aware of the number of Americans who are armed and who are not about to let anyone...military or otherwise...take Grandma without putting up a fight, even if they have to use a tire iron or a golf club. There would be no second term for him and his legacy would be worse than Bush's...that is unless you also think that he's planning to turn this country into a dictatorship...again without anyone putting up a fight.

"If millions are projected to become infected and possibly die from a disease, will the fear and paranoia be any less?"

Have you seen projections like that because I sure haven't.

"We have the epidemic that isn't still being treated as if it were a national emergency. I hope my worries are all just paranoia, but I can't dismiss them just yet."

I don't believe it is an epidemic or anything close to a national emergency right now. There have been two cases in my county and no deaths.

Spalli, have a look around the W.H.O.s website. Google them and see what sort of policies they have set in handling pandemics, then take a look at how our government has been perfectly willing to go slobbering along with. I'm not going to go in to it, just, when you have a bit, go nosing around a bit. I know I said I had already personaly debunked the whole out there "fema camp" thing, but there are still centers being set up by Femam for emergency evac and collection. I can't remember the bill, but there was anther 6 new centers aproved. that isn't conspiricy, it is legislative fact. They aren't concentration camps, they probably aren't for rounding up and detaining dissidents either, but they are being built for national emergencies and swin flu, could very easily become a "national emergency". Does it not strike you as at least a little unsettling that the department of homeland security was the FIRST agency that was involved at the outset of the swine flu discovery? And for weeks they were the ones spear heading and for a short time, were the ONLY ones handling it? then as people began to question that, the dept of health and human services and the CDC began taking a more active role. That doesn't even raise a LITTLE something in the back of your head that makes you wonder exactly how they plan on handling this if it gets bad? Remember the statist nature of our government, remember the ideology of our government right now...."WE are boss - you are serf!"
You and I don't consider this an epidemic, but that doesn't mean THEY won't. The WHO has already declared this a level 6 pandemic situation. This hasn't happened since 1968. This thing has only killed a HANDFULL of people comparitively, yet here we are....a level 6 pandemic???
I'm not saying we should be panicing and arming ourselves for a war or anything, or that we should be freaking out. But this is DEFINATELY something we should be watching.

"That doesn't even raise a LITTLE something in the back of your head that makes you wonder exactly how they plan on handling this if it gets bad?"

Actually the question it raised in the front of my head at first was whether or not this was a bio-attack of some sort. I didn't express that concern much here because folks already think I'm nutty enough.

well, you are certainly not the only person to have raised that thought. There are several microbiologists around the world who raised the very same possibility, or the possibility it was something from a lab that accidentaly got released. The flu is an odd variety, though it does in fact contain swine flu dna, there are aparrently alos other bits in there from avian flu and something else I cannot recall right now. A few even raised the possibility this was a "false flag" incident.

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Dragon, civilians with weapons already outnumber the military in this country and one of the repercussions of the fear that is brewing in this country has been an increase in the number of people who are buying guns and getting permits to carry them. IMO, martial law is already impossible because our military would be unlikely to fire on a fellow American and too many of us are armed, which presents an unacceptable risk to the troops.

Spalladino, that makes me feel better because I was a fool and let my ex-husband keep all our guns. Except my old rifle, which needs repair. I have to get that done, I love that rifle!

The National Guard fired on students on the campus of Kent State in Ohio. It's not unthinkable, it's already happened before.

Dragon54U,

OF course you're not a terrorist. You just advocate buying guns to turn on other Americans.

I love how you can be outraged at being called a terrorist and in the next breath, advocate armed resistance to the US government.

I remember that, Rollo...I'm old remember? Yes, it happened but it wasn't supposed to happen and it certainly didn't happen a second or third time. There had been a rash of violent anti-war protests on college campuses across the country which is why the National Guard was called out in that day. The unit that was involved in the shooting at Kent State was scared and followed the order to fire given by I forget who. I believe that was always shadowy. The difference between now and then is that, in the scenario you envision, young Guardsmen would be taking on adult men and women...both young and old...and armed. Meanwhile, the president would also be packing his bags because his days in office would be severely numbered.

Opalina, would consider Thomas Jefferson a terrorist?
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

"And what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that this people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants"
~thomas Jefferson

I am only pointing out the folly and danger of your casual statement.

I remember that incident and am working from memory here so bear with me. There was a gunman on a rampage who had already killed 11 people as I recall and the commander of the nearby Army base made a call and offered the limited assistance of some military police in to assist the small police force there in a supportive role. Because this situation had so overwhelmed the local authorities, the offer was accepted. The military police did not just "go in". They also didn't take on any role other than manning roadblocks in an attempt to spot the suspect, which wouldn't have been possible with a police force already in place. It didn't just quietly go away. There was an investigation and no one was prosecuted for it because of the ongoing relationship between the community and the military base.

Although it was a noble offer on the part of the base commander, it was stil technicly illegal. The deeper problem is the doors it opens. Is this really the direction we want to be looking down? Could not the county and state law enforcemnt been called in? Or for that matter, national guard? civilian militia? I realize every situation is unique and I may not know all the circumstances. It just seemed another small chip in the stone by a chisle that has been slowly at work for quite some time now. If we accept this instance, it makes the next one easier.

I do agree with you, x, but there does come a point the line being crossed is unacceptable. Interning sick people in camps instead of allowing them to recover at home would be one in my opinion. I believe the situation in that small town in Alabama was beyond the norm and time was of the essence since this madman was still running around. I don't remember all of the details regarding the lack of reinforcements for the local law enforcement but I don't think a civilian militia would have been a good idea since the shooter was a civilian so he could have blended in pretty easily.