Turin Shroud (Jesus Christ) is it a fake?  

but the question is, how and who could possibly have the means or technology to forge something like this. Moreover, to be as accurate to the crucifiction as imaged. Regardless of Christianity, the image is there, but who is it?

I think its not a big deal to forge the shroud..the question is how they preserve it..and I wouldn't be surprise if somebody with high position within the church turns out to be the culprit..

Roy Rogers was a one of the scientists who analyzes a sample in Arizona. He himself was adament after the findings that the science was not wrong proving the shroud a fake. Anyone who challenged the findings infuriated him. However, in 2003, or so, a challenge was put that the piece in question may have not been the original, and attached to the cloth a medieval sample and then dyed to make it look like the original. Rogers again was dismissive, refuting the claims that carbon dating was accurate.

However, Rogers was not arrogant, he conducted tests on this theory. In his possession, whilst the original sample was destroyed, a part of the sample Rogers had retained. To the direct question of both dyes and newer cloth, Rogers made some startling discoveries ie there were cotton in the cloth woven with the linen, which is not present in the original cloth. Moreover, Rogers also found pigment samples which do not conform to the original. This is consistent with the ultra violet findings. In this context, Rogers whilst supporting the science of carbon dating, came to the conclusion that the sample in question was wrong and another test needs to be carried out from a more credible part of the cloth.
He therefore concluded that the test was correct but the sample in question could not be verified as a credible in its authencity. Rogers sadly lost his fight against cancer in 2005. However, before he died, his last paper calls for a new test. I am sorry, but I will have to dig out the reference and name of paper, but if search on Roy Rogers then you will probably find his work. I will try and get you the reference.

Anyway, my observation is twofold. If it is a fake, then why will the Vatican release another sample? And why is it in the Vatican in the first place if it does not hold any religous value?

More importantly, the image is consistent with the practice of crucifixion ie the crown of thorns, the hands and body bearing witness. Also, it shows where blood flowed and where a spear pierced the body on the side. We know that the Romans were keen to take the body down before sunset due to the Sabbath, and were perplexed as to why Jesus died after only a few hours. The observation then becomes one of the very foundations of Christianity, the death of Jesus on the cross. For if he died, no sweat or blood could have stained any cloth. But if he was alive, this is possible. Therefore, to be genuine, the beleif that Jesus died on the cross can be plausible.

This is why I wonder why the Vatican holds it and why won't it release a sample? and why was the original sample taken from such a poor area? What has the vatican got to hide? If it not Jesus Christ, send to the British Museum or something.

btw, much of this is documented by 'Turin Shroud - the new evidence' - a documentary on the Discovery channel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shroud_of_Turin

Thank you bionic, this is an excellent reference, and a very interesting read. Note it mentions Rogers and STURP.

You're right, what matters in the faith of belief. But if it is a fake, why do Christians purport and safeguard it as a prized jewel? Does the church have something to hide? Modern day preservation techniques can allow it to be in a Museum, and rotated as you say, so why won't they allow it ? Unless they have beleif it is probably authentic and therefore it raises fundamental questions about the death of Jesus himself - the sweat and blood of the image forged the image of a live bodym - unless of course it is a fake.

Yes, the shroud, as the discovery of Rameses II (Pharoe) and dead sea scrolls, are examples of important archeological finds relating to one's religious faith. But, faith and religion is determined by the nearness to God, and being able to practice their faith.

Christanianity may not be DEPENDANT on the Turin Shroud, but it certainly can form part of the reason why the authencity is hotly debated - it could be just a nail in the coffin of a concept which modern Christianity alludes to which may after all be untrue.

The cloth resemble much detail and it indicates a very close match to the biblical and historical accounts of the crucifixion of Jesus. But crucially, for it to form, the body was more than likely have been alive, for the sweat and blood would still stain the cloth, but since he was unconscious, there would be no movement. The image shows, laceration to the head, a chest wound of the spear, and clear nail marks in the hands and feet. If it is Jesus, then we know the modern Christian death on the cross will be shattered. If however, it is not, then the modern Reserection theory remains.