The same old argument between christians, pagans, and athiests  

Haha, that's very much like my theory that we aren't really real...just characters in some artist's book. Here simply for the 'real people's' amusement..either way though, it WOULD explain alot, wouldn't it? Lol.

Anyways, thanks ^_^

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Lmfao! I guess we're onna have to get someone with speaking-to-the-dead-capability then..so you can tell us the fine details of the afterlife hehe. ^_^

I always try to keep an open mind :)

That's a pretty good and very open view of things, methinks.

I believe in cause and effect and karma as well. I differ a little only on the last part..sometimes we need a little help, but most situations we get into we can get ourselves out of.

Exactly. It's like arguing what food's better than another..pointless and a waste of energy lol.

Debates aren't completely useless though, they can be very educating about people in general.

In any event, trying to convince somebody of something they don't want to believe or just simply can't is one of those excircises I think it'd be safe to classify as a bit arrogant..

Einstien himself classified insanity as doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results lol.

Anyway, thanks for responding ^_^

I never worry about trying to change their beliefs system. I don't care what goes on in their churches or what they want to teach their children. I draw the line when they want to pass of their belief system as some sort of academics. Creationism, faith healing, the argument that Christianity is under attack, the idea that the US was founded as a Christian nation, or that there is any sort of innate superiority to Christianity/Judaism/Islam/Buddhism are not a part of science or the reality most of us live in. I will always answer those types of arguments with the truth (if you will).

I haven't been hurt arguing with people over this..no one CAN hurt me simply arguing about it. In situations in my every day life..well, I'll take my chances.

I'd rather get killed telling the truth than for lying or keeping quiet.

Why do I keep sayin' things? Because people are THINKING it, because I'm tired of people dancing around it. Just TALK ABOUT IT already..you know? Besides, I'm not the only one who thinks everyone should get along.

I'm not tellin anyone to follow my principles..I know people won't all like what I say.but I never cared what people thought of me anyway. People can all think of me as they want..they can all believe whatever they want..I just would very much like for people to stop judging others..to treat them like human beings..an that's why I do what I do.

It'd be very selfish of me to not say anything when someone else is being verbally attacked in another thread for disagreeing, just so I wouldn't be scolded too. Likewise it would be wrong for me to do nothing if I saw someone getting mugged worrying about my own safety..you see?

I appreciate that you're concerned though..it's nice to know people do care sometimes. Anyway..I figured you were tired about all my topics on this lol..that's one of the reasons I had the note lol.

I guess I am a bit bold..but isn't sad that we live in a times when it's bold to create a discussion where urging people to treat eachother nicely can land one in hot water? If I didn't mention the conditions of which people mistreated eachother people probably would agree with me..as it is, I tell it as I see it..which I guess is kinda close to the truth if it isn't the truth..it must make pople incredibly uncomfortable then, that I like how they disagree with me..but won't put up with how they treat others..and yet won't force them to change..hmm.

If I have any say at all about it, I won't let it progress to a point beyond that. That's how we give up things..letting stuff slide until it becomes to great for a single person to do anything. I'm not sure if it could ever get that bad..but you know..you see my point, right?

Sorry..I kinda went on there lol.

btw funny posts by both of us.The topic is something and we're talking about something else.lol.
i should be taking the blame for it i guess.
Talking about what you were saying, what is the "TRUTH" ? And whaterever you said about saving someone instead of keeping mum is totally right.But the fact is you are not saving anybody here cuz nobody's in trouble and nobody asked for help.
Not tryin' to beef though.I just wanted to appreciate you for that for taking whatever i said in the way it was mean to.You know that i like you for the way you are and thats the sole reason I'm here talking to you.No issues i totally understood whatever you had to say.I'll always enjoy and have enjoyed making replies to your posts.Nothing's gonna stop me from that unless you want me to. *smiles*

Lol..that is true. But see I'm not TRYING to save anybody.

My point was that I should be able to say what I think is true..and it's not like I'm going around telling people to believe this or that..I'm mostly defending others who're being told to believe this or that by others. I'm not saving people..just defending them. I was just trying to tell ye via metaphor..lol

And my entire point to my 'truth' is that everyone's 'truth' is different and that it's folly to project it onto everyone else especially when they're not interested. I'm not doing that because I'm not trying to change anyone in here and people have made the choice to reply to my thread..and evene then I'll say "Thanks for contributing, that's lovely..I disagree in factions but you can believe what you do, and I'll do he same."

Anyway, I'm glad some folks do like my discussions lol.

It is funny how our two discussions kinda ran together a bit there.

btw congrats for making it to the top discussions.

Thanks

"I find it amazing that these beliefs (or nonbeliefs in some cases) can't live together online when they so often do offline"

ahh but do they REALLY live together offline? I see so often and have experienced it far too many times along with my kids, some of our family and friends etc that those who CANT think or live outside the box generally widecircle and when possible completely avoid those of us that do....See where I'm goin with this? Sure we co-exist but i honestly dont think that we live together (in harmony or with compassion in some cases)...

"I know a lot of people who think that because I'm pagan I hate Christianity, which is just silly because I married a Christian!"

LOL Yea I get a little annoyed and quite frankly find it rather insulting when Chrisitans (or anyone for that matter) assume that because I am Pagan I:

- hate Christians
- am abusive to my children
- am full of hate
- am sad, depressed and suffer from self loathing etc
- am uneducated when it comes to Christianity

to name a few....because all those assumptions are WAY off base..

- I dont hate Christians at all...I hate arrogance, narrowmindedness, hatred, discrimination, fanatics and so on...but I dont hate Christians OR Christianity

- the last thing I am is abusive to my children and to attempt to connect my personal spiritual path with child abuse is just sick and twisted and I think that the ppl who have that attitude need to take a closer look at the skeletons in their closets

- I'm not fully of hate at all..in fact Im a very loving, compassionate, kindhearted, empathetic woman and always have been

- though I have and do suffer from extreme depression..my spiritual path is NOT the cause IN FACT when I was a believer in Christ my sadness was enhanced sometimes to very dangerous levels...

- wrong again...I've read the bible from cover to cover...I was some time ago a very devoted Christian...just because I no longer am doenst make me uneducated (in fact it IMO makes me MORE educated)..it doenst mean I "lost my way" etc etc...it means...I know better for me personally...

I agree. So many are still clinging to the very suspect man-made "knowledge" of uneducated centuries past. It's time the world grew out of childish mythology.

Amen and so true Dan!

The Bible is God's Holy Word to us. It is the Truth.

I'm so glad that I believe in the Living God.

Though I may not exactly believe that Bible's not the only book that deserves a bit of attention..and the fact that I'm a skeptic on what's happened to it over the years and where it comes from..AND the fact I just see a different version of the same creator (in my opinion at least) than you do..that is the point I was trying to convey Dan..that one can't take only pieces, and you do have to think outside the box with it. My mother said you need other books to study that one book..and that's all I've done. I'm not saying Christ didn't exist, that I don't like him, or that it's not the word of God..even if I may disagree on a few points, I was simply trying to point out a few facs you can figure out via any history book.

You and Spring may believe it's the truth, but I don't think that means everyone else does either -- though yes, you're allowed to hope they will see things the way you do someday. I think everyone does that.

Anyway, thanks for responding ^_^

You're absolutely right. We have proof of practically nothing in the life we now live. We only "believe" things will happen, etc.

We believe we will wake up tomorrow.
We believe that our heart will keep beating.
We believe, we believe, we believe.

We also believe or don't believe, that there is a God and a Heaven and yes even a place called Hell or Hades.

We believe or don't believe, in the Son of God who died for us and was raised again and is coming back to bring us home.

What would you rather believe? No one is stopping anyone from believing, or not believing whatever they choose.

Therefore, if someone states that they believe in a God and His Son and a Heaven, and a Hell, and a Resurrection. That's their belief.

What do people base all these aforementioned beliefs?
The Holy Word of God. If you don't believe in the Bible, then go ahead and believe what you choose.

However, IF and WHEN you DO meet GOD on the other side, and you DON'T BELIEVE it will then be too late.
It's all there in the Bible. Believe it, or take your chances on YOUR BELIEF or NO BELIEF.

God Bless.

Dv

Yes, Dan but what if the person who believed in the Bible their entire life found out THEY were wrong upon dying?

(O_o this is sounding alot like one of Pangeacat's discussions! Omg deja vu! Lol)

Once more I'd like to add, I'm not sayig you're wrong Dan. I'm just pointing it out like Galena was. When we die we could find out that NONE of us were right. Or MAYBE all of us were.

an excellent and interesting post.
as usual.

Well thank you for replying, hun ^_^

I don't so much mind the american flag (I've known some not-so-friendly churches without the flag..), but how some people treat others. They're just using that religion as an excuse to do it..telling themselves it's their right as members of that religion to do those things -- looking at some of the suicide bombers we see the exact same thing, only to a higher degree.

I agree though..it is rather interesting most of the people attacking others actually know little about their own religion themselves. Some people who just splat you with a whole bunch of comments on love -- that's okay, they're not really harmful. But the one's which result in name calling..and some even stoop to a low of actual physical attack..I can't abide by that. I just can't..who could?

I think it just shows that people're insecure I guess..wanting their own little private clubs, trying so hard to make something which never existed real -- I'm not saying christianity isn't real, just that the violently opposed to even the slightest question types' views of christianity isn't real. I'm not going to generalize what their view is either, since that'd be a bit hypocritical of me.

But yeah..Anything can be taken the wrong way *sad*

It DOES seem particularly bad here in America though. You go to the U.K. and there's still some fanatics here and there but overall..I think it's a bit more relaxed compared to here.

there was a really terrifying family on Louis Theroux the other day.

*shudders*

how awful they can bring their children up so full of hate for everyone else in the world.

It's not the American flag, xParanoiax, it's the lack of integrity in the American church, that so perplexes me. As you say, the violence and hate mongering that is done in the name of religion and country. It seems that more people in the church in America are more concerned about their nationalistic pride than they are in the God they purport to serve. Sadly, this is often portrayed as hate toward others, usually intolerance. What's so bizarre to me is that even though nationalistic pride is foremost in American christian thought and action, I would think that that same Americanism would be enough to defend the rights of others to be who they want to be (i.e., freedom of religion, freedom of speech, etc.) Sadly, so many in the American church pick and choose what parts of the U.S. Constitution that they will respect, as well as which parts of their sacred books that they will respect. For me, this is the whole point of integrity, or lack thereof. No common standard of interpretation and expression applied to life. It's no wonder people are so miserable -- they don't even know what they believe.

What do you mean, Galena?

That is true -- I hadn't noticed that, just that alot of christians these days were drifting away from their principles (not hurting others, not judging, etc) -- thinking about it, it does seem like they're doing the worst with those kinds of people in the U.S.

It is dumbfounding how it could happen..though not particularly hard to imagine how.

It's very sad too..but, people don't want to bend or tolerate I guess. Some times I think they'd prefer the world to be wiped out of anyone who disagrees with them. But I guess it'd defeat the purpose of them trying to prove they're better than anyone else.

I think she means alot of the child abuse is also done by supposedly christian peoples? (I don't consider many of the hateful judging one's real christians, since they pick and choose verses most of them don't take the whole book or even know what they were taught..sadly. They're just wannabes, pretenders, fakers.) She does have a good point, you rarely hear abotu a satanist family abusing their children -- or a buddhist one! It's always folks which claim to be of that group, it seems.

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it's on youtube now

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2fUyJQgRuM

Ah, yes, Galena. I know who you're referring to, now. They are quite wretched, aren't they?

just awful.