Should the P-45 Mountain Lion be Killed?
@DeborahDiane (40845)
Laguna Woods, California
December 1, 2016 6:21pm CST
There is a major discussion going on in Southern California right now. Our local mountain lions are numbered, and Puma 45 or P-45 has apparently gotten in the habit of killing domesticated animals ... more than he can eat.
Recently, he jumped into an enclosure and killed ten alpacas in one night.
The California Department of Fish and Wildlife issued a 10 day permit to the owner of the alpacas, which gives her permission to have the mountain lion killed.
Mountain lions are beloved here in California, and even the owner of the alpacas does not want to kill it. She wants it re-located, but the experts say it would just return to its original territory ... and could get in a fight with another mountain lion if it is moved.
Expensive fencing is another possibility, but not all the local farmers can afford it.
Right now, things seem to be in a stalemate. Even I am not sure what is the right thing to do.
What do you think? Have the mountain lion killed, re-located or hope the problem just goes away on its own? 
18 people like this
20 responses
@JamesHxstatic (29410)
• Eugene, Oregon
2 Dec 16
I favor relocation in northern California or eastern Oregon, far from anyone's farm or home. As to the territorial problem with another lion, that is nature in action.
5 people like this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
4 Dec 16
@TheHorse - The decision is still pending, as far as I've heard today. Maybe they'll just decide to do nothing and see what happens.
2 people like this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
3 Dec 16
@JamesHxstatic - I agree. They should at least give relocation a try. It is better than simply killing the animal.
2 people like this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
3 Dec 16
@NJChicaa - So far, it has not been killed. My fingers are crossed that they will find another solution.
1 person likes this
@crossbones27 (52905)
• Mojave, California
2 Dec 16
They are saying this was not about survival and that the cat is a serial killer. Let me think about this. Could have been hungry, went to get one, but saw it was outnumbered and decided to eliminate all threats. That is how cats think. Look at lions. Also desperate and hungry, probably not in the best frame of mind just as people would be.
I do not see why they do not relocate it and put a tracker in it. If it does something again, then eliminate it. Put it in a sancturary and that way it does get fed and you can see for sure if the animal is off. There is options, but people always want the easiest out and one that is the most cost effective. They could use this animal to learn, but instead lets do what we always do kill something when we invaded their territory in the first place.
2 people like this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
3 Dec 16
@crossbones27 - You'll be pleased to know that, so far, they have not done anything. The alpacas have a better enclosure and the owners are waiting to see what the wildlife department decides to do about the puma.
1 person likes this
@PatZAnthony (14749)
• Charlotte, North Carolina
2 Dec 16
It is like putting dinner out there for the mountain lion. These are natural to the area. Can't help but feel terrible for the alpacas, but wasn't the mountain lion there first? We are lessening the territory for so many creatures. Where are they to go?
2 people like this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
3 Dec 16
@PatZAnthony - You are absolutely right. So far, the mountain lion has not been killed. I hope they find a good solution for dealing with it.
@LadyDuck (502316)
• Italy
2 Dec 16
Exactly like @JamesHxstatic I am in favor of relocation. The mountain lion should be moved far from areas where domesticated animals are grown.
3 people like this
@LadyDuck (502316)
• Italy
3 Dec 16
@DeborahDiane We invade the animal spaces and then our solution is to kill them. This is something I cannot understand.
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
4 Dec 16
@LadyDuck - I agree. We need to find better ways for animals and humans to live together.
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
3 Dec 16
@LadyDuck - I agree. So far, they have not made a final decision.
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
3 Dec 16
@JudyEv - The owner has decided to wait on having the puma killed and she has improved the fencing around her alpacas. Some people are concerned that the puma could go after other animals, pets or children, instead, so there is still some concern about it ... especially since it is obviously killing more than it can eat.
2 people like this
@JudyEv (381956)
• Rockingham, Australia
3 Dec 16
@DeborahDiane That would worry me too. If it can't get to the alpacas it could easily go to the next easiest prey. I wouldn't be at all surprised if, at the end of the day, the puma has to be killed.
2 people like this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
4 Dec 16
@JudyEv - I hope they don't have to kill the puma, but it could eventually happen. It was unusual for it to kill so many alpacas at once.
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
3 Dec 16
@jstory07 - So far they have not killed the mountain lion and they are discussing the alternatives.
1 person likes this
@moffittjc (128832)
• Gainesville, Florida
10 Dec 16
Did you see Will Smith on the Ellen Show recently? The security cameras at his home captured a mountain lion prancing around his property at night while they were all sleeping! I thought of you when I saw the show!
1 person likes this
@moffittjc (128832)
• Gainesville, Florida
11 Dec 16
@DeborahDiane That's pretty funny that you know the specific cat that is running around Will Smith's house. Will Smith said he thinks he should send the cat over to Denzel Washington's house!
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
12 Dec 16
@moffittjc - Ha Ha! Mountain lions in Southern California each are numbered and are beloved ... except when they get too far out of line! They even have cameras with motion detectors set up all over the wildlife areas here. Whenever a mountain lion, bear or other large animal walks near, the cameras snap a picture, and they have gotten some phenomenal ones. That is funny what Will Smith said about sending the cat over to Denzel Washington's house. 
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
11 Dec 16
@moffittjc - Oh, wow! I missed that. If he lives in the Hollywood Hills, it was probably P-22 ... the Hollywood puma. He even has his own Facebook page ... LOL. People in the area post pictures of him. It was actually P-22 in the picture I used in my article, since I didn't have one of P-45. 
1 person likes this
@MarshaMusselman (38865)
• Midland, Michigan
21 Dec 16
Where mountain lions born in America or were they brought here years ago from another country? I never even realized there were any mountain lions in any state here. We have coyotes on the outskirts of our small city, but to my knowledge, they're not out of hand yet even though sometimes you can hear their calls in the distance.
If they were relocated would it just be to another area in California? I've no idea what is the best place for them either.
1 person likes this
@MarshaMusselman (38865)
• Midland, Michigan
25 Dec 16
@DeborahDiane I never realized there were mountain lions native to any part of the US before. I know that bears and coyotes can be just about anywhere, but I thought possible those particular lions were brought here from another country. That would be a difficult decision to make if more problems arise from them getting too close to inhabited areas.
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
25 Dec 16
@MarshaMusselman - Fortunately, mountain lions (also called cougers and pumas) do not form families or prides, like African lions do. They are isolated hunters, and there are not a lot of them, so it is rare to hear about them attacking people or domestic animals ... which is why the incident with P-45 was so shocking. So far, there have been no more incidents and P-45 has not been hunted down.
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
22 Dec 16
@MarshaMusselman - Mountain lions are native to many parts of the U.S., including Florida. Yes, if they relocate the lion, it would just be moved to another part of California. So far, there has not been another attack, so nothing has been done about relocating this lion. If it attacks humans or domesticated animals again, however, it will almost certainly be hunted down and killed.
1 person likes this
@TheHorse (238294)
• Walnut Creek, California
3 Dec 16
I heard about this case on the radio. I like the fact that that one rancher lady wants to tranquilize and relocate, rather than kill. But I hadn't thought about the issues you suggested. If they relocated it to Mt. Diablo, where I hike, getting back to Southern California would be quite a chore. I've never actually seen one (I think I saw one bobcat), so I assume there is plenty of territory to claim. And there are tasty ground squirrels, rabbits, wild turkeys and deer everywhere.
1 person likes this
@TheHorse (238294)
• Walnut Creek, California
4 Dec 16
@DeborahDiane Me too. Intresting that the lion is a bit more...violent...than your average mountain lion.
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
5 Dec 16
@TheHorse - Yes, the violence of this particular mountain lion is what concerned them the most.
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
4 Dec 16
@TheHorse - I know they are still struggling to decide what to do. I hope they come up with a working solution that will benefit everyone.
1 person likes this
@PainsOnSlate (21845)
• Canada
4 Dec 16
I think it should be moved far away into the mountains where there are no humans.
1 person likes this
@PainsOnSlate (21845)
• Canada
5 Dec 16
@DeborahDiane I hope they do too, We often see news that some animal has been put back in the wilds. It is a good thing. .
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
6 Dec 16
@PainsOnSlate - Yes, it is very good when the animals are given open space in which they can roam freely.
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
5 Dec 16
@PainsOnSlate - I hope they do find a place where they can relocate the puma. I'll write another article, if they do.
1 person likes this
@KristenH (33591)
• Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio
3 Dec 16
@DeborahDiane Keep me posted. There's got to be another option to it.
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
3 Dec 16
@KristenH - So far, they haven't killed it, but they are discussing what alternatives they have.
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
5 Dec 16
@DianneN - I will write another post if I hear what they decide to do!
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
4 Dec 16
@DianneN - Yes, it is a dilemma and I know the owner of the alpacas and the authorities are grappling with their choice.
1 person likes this
@DianneN (254926)
• United States
4 Dec 16
@DeborahDiane It's a tough choice. Please let me know the resolution!
1 person likes this
@MarymargII (12422)
• Toronto, Ontario
13 Dec 16
If they are right and it will return, it may have to be killed. Pet owners have to have a quality of life and don't want to be stressed and having the onus put on them. I wish the relocation would work- but frankly it sounds a little dangerous too for people!
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
15 Dec 16
@Marymargll - So far, nothing has been done about the mountain lion and the license to shoot it has expired. I guess everyone is just waiting to see what happens next.
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
16 Dec 16
@MarymargII - So far, nothing new has happened with P-45. However, I just wrote another article about how P-39, a different mountain lion, was recently killed by a car on the local freeway. It was sad.
1 person likes this
@MarymargII (12422)
• Toronto, Ontario
16 Dec 16
@DeborahDiane It's a hard call for sure- but safety is premium. Wish they could re-locate successfully!
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
10 Dec 16
@Bluedoll - You are right ... the mountain lion is a wild cat in the wrong neighborhoood.
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
6 Dec 16
@Jackalyn - Oh... I never thought about the fact that other countries no longer have wild lions. They are pretty prevalent in much of the Western U.S.
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
5 Dec 16
@TheHorse - I used a photo of P-22, which I already had on my computer. P-22 is also called the Hollywood puma because that is his range. He is the one that killed a koala bear in the L.A. zoo, but it was an old koala and the zoo declined to have P-22 relocated. There are cameras up in Griffith Park and they get photos of P-22 all the time. He is very popular and has his own Facebook page! LOL
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
5 Dec 16
@just4him - Eventually, the mountain lion will probably be put down, if they can't find a better situation.
1 person likes this
@JESSY3236 (22246)
• United States
7 Dec 16
I think they should be relocated to a much better place.
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
8 Dec 16
@JESSY3236 - I agree that the mountain lion should be relocated. No decision has been made, yet, and so far there has not been another incident.
1 person likes this
@JohnRoberts (109841)
• Los Angeles, California
2 Dec 16
Every effort should be made to save the mountain lion.
1 person likes this
@DeborahDiane (40845)
• Laguna Woods, California
3 Dec 16
@JohnRoberts - So far, the mountain lion has not been killed. They are trying to find a way to save it.
