Contemplating 'Autumn' v. 'Fall' And Where This Leads Us

@MALUSE (69413)
Germany
October 6, 2020 3:18pm CST
I've learnt the word 'autumn' at school because in Germany school children are taught British English. I like it better than 'fall' which is strange considering what I'm going to tell you now. It is derived from the Latin word autumnus which explains the strange combination of 'mn' at the end of the word. The word 'fall' is of Germanic origin.  In Middle English it was 'fallen', in Old English 'feallan', in Old Norse 'falla'. In modern German the word is 'fallen'. So 'fall' should be the more natural word for me. 'Autumn' and 'fall' - a perfect example for the fact that the English language as we know it today is a mixture of two languages, namely Anglo-Saxon and Norman-French ("1066 And All That") which is a daughter of Mother Latin. Every possible result can be seen: the Anglo-Saxon word has remained in the vocabulary; the Anglo-Saxon word disappeared and was replaced by the Norman-French one; the Anglo-Saxon word and the Norman-French exist side by side. They're rarely complete synonyms, though. The meaning may be the same but stylistically there's a difference. Spoken English prefers the Anglo-Saxon terms, formal, written English the Norman-French ones. Just by looking at the English vocabulary you can learn how the people on the British Isles lived after 1066 when William the Conqueror and his Norman-French troops didn't return home but decided to stay. The farmers were Anglo-Saxons. They had the animals the masters wanted to eat. The words for the livestock are Germanic. German (and Scandinavian) pupils have no problems learning the words. Bull, ox, cow, calf = Bulle, Ochse, Kuh, Kalb. Where the Norman-French masters interested in the animals? No, they were only interested in the meat on their plates. They wanted 'boeuf' which you now have as 'beef'. And so it goes on. The words for simple household things are mostly of Germanic origin, administration, politics, theology and science are of Norman-French origin. (The Romans who ruled Britain from 45 BC until 440 AD didn't leave many words. Most of them were military and administrative terms. 'castrum' = 'castle'). Now you know why the English language has such a vast vocabulary. It's a mixture of two languages. But not only this. Due to British Imperialism it has also incorporated many words of the languages of the countries which became part of the British Empire. Does 'bungalow' sound English? The word entered the English language between 1660 and 1680. It is of Hindi origin (bangla) meaning 'from Bengal'. Contrary to what many English speaking people claim English is not a 'difficult' language to learn. The grammar structure isn't complicated, it's in no way comparable to, say, French, Russian or German. Foreigners learning English don't need long until they're able to form and pronounce a correct or at least understandable sentence of English. Try that in one of the other languages I've mentioned here! I'm glad that my native language is German and I had to learn English and not the other way round. The fact that English has so many words does not mean that English people have a vast vocabulary. The number of words someone uses depends on the level of education someone has. You don't need many words for everyday life. Linguists claim that an uneducated native speaker gets along with ~5.000 words. Someone with a higher level of education may know ~10.000 words. Not everyone is a Shakespeare who used  31.534 *different* words. There may have been more words which he knew passively but didn't use actively. Did you know all that or have I told you something new? ----- Photo: Hans Braxmeier, Pixabay
15 people like this
16 responses
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
6 Oct 20
As the people of Britain spoke various Celtic dialects when the Romans were here, it's hardly surprising that modern English (which is Northern Germanic in origin) has very few words borrowed directly from Latin. Welsh has rather more because the Welsh are descended from people who had direct contact with the Romans. Latin, itself, borrowed a number of Celtic and other words from the people they conquered and many of the 'Roman' soldiers who manned the forts in Britain were actually natives of other countries in the Empire - a lot of them Celtic speakers, chosen because they were more used to the kind of climate we have here than those pampered Latii from Rome.
4 people like this
@lovebuglena (43080)
• Staten Island, New York
6 Oct 20
When you say that English is a mixture of two languages are you referring to British English?
2 people like this
@owlwings (43915)
• Cambridge, England
6 Oct 20
American English is so close to British English that it can barely be called a dialect. the English you speak is the same mix of Anglo Saxon and Norman French as well as some other words from other languages) as the English I speak. By the time that (Eastern) America was no longer a colony of Britain, we both spoke a language which we'd easily recognise today. Your accent might have sounded 'regional' to me (and mine to you) but the words and the grammar would have been much the same.
2 people like this
@MALUSE (69413)
• Germany
6 Oct 20
No, I'm referring to English as such. More on the topic here:
Why is it that Italian, French, Spanish and Portuguese students of English can read English texts quite easily, the more highbrow the better, but have problems...
3 people like this
@lovebuglena (43080)
• Staten Island, New York
6 Oct 20
@owlwings There are many terms or phrases in British English that are not in American English and vice versa. And there is also Australian English.
3 people like this
@xFiacre (12607)
• Ireland
6 Oct 20
@maluse I've never fully investigated the origins of English beyond acknowledging the Anglo-Saxon and Norman contributions. When I arrived back in Ireland at 14 years of age from Africa I thought I spoke English like any other Irish person, but I soon got laughed at for including French and Tumbuku* words in my vocabulary while using English grammar. *Tumbuku is the language on N Malawi and it still slips out, especially when I speak French and can't think of the French word I'm looking for.
2 people like this
@MALUSE (69413)
• Germany
6 Oct 20
That's fascinating! --- Check out this book. You may be interested in the stories. It's about how the brain works. 'The Man Who Mistook His Wife for a Hat' (Picador Classic) Paperback by Oliver Sacks
2 people like this
• Midland, Michigan
7 Jan 21
You've told me many new things. I've used the word fall for so long it's hard to say autumn but I do try when writing about the season change on here. What I could look up is when and why the word fall even began being used instead of autumn.
1 person likes this
@MALUSE (69413)
• Germany
7 Jan 21
It's nice to learn that a foreigner can teach a native speaker of English something new. :-)
1 person likes this
• Midland, Michigan
7 Jan 21
@MALUSE I just looked it up and autumn came on the scene in the 14th century and quickly took over the original term of harvest. The term fall showed up on the 17th century possibly used first poetically as an opposite of spring and took hold eventually.
1 person likes this
@LindaOHio (156488)
• United States
7 Oct 20
Most of this was news to me. Thank you for a very interesting post. The English language is quite rich in its heritage.
1 person likes this
@MALUSE (69413)
• Germany
7 Oct 20
Thank you for your friendly comment.
1 person likes this
@MALUSE (69413)
• Germany
7 Oct 20
Re: "The English language is quite rich in its heritage." --- What makes the English language outstanding is that it is so young. Before 1066, English as we know it didn't exist.
1 person likes this
@LindaOHio (156488)
• United States
8 Oct 20
@MALUSE I didn't know that. Thank you for the information.
• United States
17 Oct 20
I prefer the term of Fall because it reminds me that leafs are starting to fall.
1 person likes this
@MALUSE (69413)
• Germany
17 Oct 20
I prefer 'autumn'. 'Fall' is so simple. 'Autumn' is a more interesting word. (From Wikipedia) "The word autumn is derived from Latin autumnus, archaic auctumnus, possibly from the ancient Etruscan root autu- and has within it connotations of the passing of the year."
1 person likes this
• United States
18 Oct 20
@MALUSE Yes, I agree. Autumn is the more sophisticated word.
@GardenGerty (157598)
• United States
6 Oct 20
You have confirmed what I have believed which is that both German and French are more challenging than English. I know we collect and borrow words from every one. In the US, especially the south west part, we throw in Tex Mex and other Hispanic dialects.
1 person likes this
@LadyDuck (458458)
• Switzerland
7 Oct 20
I knew all of that from school, but I forgot some of that. The English language is not difficult, it has a vast vocabulary, but very simple grammar structure, no feminine or masculine words and adjectives, very easy compared to French, Italian, Spanish, German and Latin.
1 person likes this
@LadyDuck (458458)
• Switzerland
7 Oct 20
@MALUSE I wonder how they can say that it is "difficult" if it's the only language they know. Italian is my native language, I know it's difficult for non native, but it was not for me. I had a harder time with French and all those accents.
@MALUSE (69413)
• Germany
7 Oct 20
It always amuses me when people who don't know any foreign languages claim that English is a difficult language.
1 person likes this
@garymarsh6 (23393)
• United Kingdom
9 Nov 20
Having grown up and educated in England naturally my mother tongue is English and yes l knew the above. English language is constantly evolving as are other languages. 'Olde English' 15th,16th and 17th century English is quite a challenge to read and is a good example. Many words starting or including a S were written as a lower case f. Examples can be found in our great churches around the UK. Shakespearean English l find quite tiresome to read. Over the years spellings change knocking letters off to make it easier to read. A few years ago the French attempted to ban English words which they felt were anglicising their language and certainly a ban existed in playing less English music. I find it interesting how much English is used interchangeably in other languages.Urdu/Hindi/Malay and find it quite amusing to hear the switch between the two! As for colloquialisms l know sometimes you find difficulty understanding, that is not a criticism because we too find them difficult or strange to understand. Some examples for example a small bread roll can have several regional names. Regional variations can be really confusing and that is before we even get started on accents! Listening to older BBC broadcasts is really interesting when the standard clipped British accent was spoken is far more pleasant to listen to than today's Broadcasts using regional broadcasters.
1 person likes this
@MALUSE (69413)
• Germany
9 Nov 20
I'm sure that many speakers of English don't know the history of their language.
1 person likes this
@DianneN (247080)
• United States
8 Oct 20
I use fall and autumn interchangeably.
@MALUSE (69413)
• Germany
8 Oct 20
Are you puzzling your American country people with this?
1 person likes this
@DianneN (247080)
• United States
8 Oct 20
@MALUSE No one has questioned it, yet!
@lovebuglena (43080)
• Staten Island, New York
6 Oct 20
This was pretty much new to me. I've always wondered why there are two different words for this time of the year. Now I know that Autumn is a British term.
1 person likes this
@MALUSE (69413)
• Germany
6 Oct 20
I'm happy that I could fill the gap! :-)
2 people like this
@JimBo452020 (42629)
• United Kingdom
7 Oct 20
@MALUSE Yes indeed.
1 person likes this
@Ronrybs (17840)
• London, England
7 Oct 20
I like the word autumn. I used to live in the US, for a while and a long time ago, and used fall there. It is quite amazing how many people don't realise that English is full of borrowed words. I read that English jumps out and mugs other languages for their grammar!
@MALUSE (69413)
• Germany
7 Oct 20
"...English jumps out and ***mugs other languages for their grammar***!" I don't understand this sentence. Please explain.
@thelme55 (76485)
• Germany
6 Oct 20
Yes, you have told me something new. Very interesting.
1 person likes this
@MALUSE (69413)
• Germany
7 Oct 20
You're welcome! :-)
1 person likes this
@JimBo452020 (42629)
• United Kingdom
7 Oct 20
I prefer not to Fall
1 person likes this
@jstory07 (134403)
• Roseburg, Oregon
7 Oct 20
@JimBo452020 Don't fall you might get hurt.
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@JimBo452020 (42629)
• United Kingdom
7 Oct 20
@jstory07 Lol, I almost fell in a hole on the pavement last night. I didn't see it, it was dark,
@jstory07 (134403)
• Roseburg, Oregon
7 Oct 20
Very interesting . I will call Fall. Fall and not Autumn.
@MALUSE (69413)
• Germany
7 Oct 20
Well, 'fall' is American English. So you are excused.
@Tampa_girl7 (49056)
• United States
8 Oct 20
You have taught me something new