Should Life or Death Be Decided by the Government?

@porwest (112929)
United States
June 13, 2022 2:15pm CST
I have talked at length in the past about many of the reasons why universal health care is a bad idea and why a for-profit medical system such as we have here in the United States is not only better care, but also "patient decisional" care. There is the case in a Royal London hospital of 11-year old Archie Battersbee who has been essentially on life support since early April, who has been diagnosed as "brain-stem dead." According to the doctors caring for him and the hospital, there is no hope for Archie to ever recover. As such, the costs to care for him are very high, and there is no telling how long the boy could be on life support. It's not an issue of "life" or even "death" per se, but an issue of money, and because the UK has a universal healthcare system, the decision being made by the courts is not necessarily on the families concerns nor wishes, not on life, but on cost to the taxpayer ultimately. The court has ruled that life support may not continue. It can be appealed. But ultimately the court has decided on the medical discourse of Archie. While my position is that the doctors are probably right, and that life support should probably be stopped considering the likely prognosis, in a for-profit system this is something more left up to the family or patient involved. Granted, someone has to pay up—insurance companies, patients, patient's guardians or whoever else, and decisions may be made in that regard depending on one's ability to pay. Despite the obvious hippocratic oath of all doctors, one must keep in mind who the doctor is officially working for. Is it the patient? Or the taxpayer? Because ultimately the one he answers to is the one paying the bill. This is not an argument for or against universal healthcare. It is simply something to keep in mind when we discuss it. Keep in mind that the boy has only been on life support for a little over two months and the government is already deciding he must die.
8 people like this
8 responses
@Nakitakona (59987)
• Philippines
14 Jun 22
That's unfair. Let the parents of the boy decide. If they want to spend money for the boy and they can afford it, why not?
1 person likes this
@porwest (112929)
• United States
15 Jun 22
In Universal Healthcare it usually doesn't work this way. They would have to send their child to a hospital in the U.S., for example. My guess is that the family probably cannot afford it though.
1 person likes this
@porwest (112929)
• United States
19 Jun 22
@Nakitakona It would seem so.
1 person likes this
@Nakitakona (59987)
• Philippines
18 Jun 22
@porwest oh I see. Then they have the final say to end the life of the agonizing patient. Haven't they?
1 person likes this
@RubyHawk (99367)
• Atlanta, Georgia
14 Jun 22
For myself I will never be on life support. I’ve taken care of that It’s not living and we don’t know the patient isn’t suffering.
1 person likes this
@RubyHawk (99367)
• Atlanta, Georgia
15 Jun 22
@porwest That’s exactly how I feel. I’ve seen people on life support and it’s horrible.
1 person likes this
@porwest (112929)
• United States
15 Jun 22
@RubyHawk Fortunately I have never encountered someone I have known on it. I hope I never do.
1 person likes this
@RubyHawk (99367)
• Atlanta, Georgia
15 Jun 22
@porwest I hope you never have to.
1 person likes this
@lovebuglena (52208)
• Staten Island, New York
15 Jun 22
My dad was on a ventilator as he could not breathe on his own. He was on it for over a month and then he passed away. The day before he passed away we were supposed to have a meeting with the doctors at the hospital. I bet it was to tell us there is nothing they can do and to turn it off. He was suffering for over a month on that thing and in the end it was useless. Would the ventilator be considered life support?
1 person likes this
@lovebuglena (52208)
• Staten Island, New York
19 Jun 22
@porwest Sometimes they lowered the power a little bit but most of them time I think it was pretty high.
1 person likes this
@porwest (112929)
• United States
16 Jun 22
If he was on the ventilator because he could not breathe on his own, I would consider this to be a form of it for sure.
1 person likes this
@LindaOHio (222806)
• United States
14 Jun 22
The obvious answer is to take the life support away; but if it were my husband on life support, regardless of the prognosis, it would be very hard to pull the plug.
1 person likes this
@LindaOHio (222806)
• United States
15 Jun 22
@porwest Agreed.
1 person likes this
@Kandae11 (57230)
13 Jun 22
For some people the very thought of not seeing their loved one again is unbearable.That is why for them , even having the loved one lying immobile on life support is a better option. After all - hope springs eternal, hope that one day that loved one will get up out of that bed.
1 person likes this
@CarolDM (203396)
• Nashville, Tennessee
13 Jun 22
Should be decided by the family. No matter about insurance or money. This is their child. A human life. I will never have that difficult decision to make obviously, but if I did, I cannot imagine the stress involved. Not something you can say what you would do until you are in the situation.
1 person likes this
@porwest (112929)
• United States
15 Jun 22
I agree, although it is a difficult thing for all sides considering the cost of the care and who ultimately has to pay for it. Even in the U.S. it can be something an insurance company may refuse to pay depending on the prognosis—and then like there, here it goes before the courts to ultimately decide. It is a situation I hope I never have to be in, nor anyone else for that matter.
1 person likes this
@porwest (112929)
• United States
16 Jun 22
@CarolDM I do understand fully. But of course money is not infinite. A HORRIBLE situation.
1 person likes this
@CarolDM (203396)
• Nashville, Tennessee
15 Jun 22
@porwest When it is your child the money issues go out the window. Not a good situation for anyone obviously.
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@marguicha (230365)
• Chile
13 Jun 22
I have thought a lot about this too. And there are many health issues that have chaanged lately. In my country, many years ago, noone could have thought of donating organs. Now you can sign a paper any day deciding that. The same goes for cremation instead of burying. I live in a vastly catholic country so I had to sign a permit for my husband to be cremated. It is changing in other ways too. Euthanasia is a thing to discuss now. Some terminally ill people are living with unbearable pain but to end such life is a crime. The case you speak about is another such thing. I think this should be decided by the family. But is they decide to have the person forever alive, they should find the means to pay for it. I will not touch the issue of abortion, but that can also be discussed.
@NJChicaa (127176)
• United States
13 Jun 22
even in a for-profit situation it is the insurance company who decides what to pay for and what to deny. They refused to pay for 2 doses a day of my antidepressant but didn't balk at paying for a double dose once in the morning. They have denied medications in the past when it was "too soon" to fill them despite the fact that the doctor had changed the dosage. I have had to have CT scans and ultrasounds pre-approved even though the doctor said they were necessary.
1 person likes this
@porwest (112929)
• United States
13 Jun 22
I did allude to some of that in the post when I said, "Granted, someone has to pay up—insurance companies, patients, patient's guardians or whoever else, and decisions may be made in that regard depending on one's ability to pay." Money is ALWAYS going to be a factor somewhere in any decision being made. Ultimately though, the decision to end life is usually, in our system, one that is much less quick to be decided. Neither system is perfect, they all have their upsides and downsides, and I think when we consider what system we should BEST decide on, it should be one that meets somewhere between the for-profit incentivized system and "universal" payers. This is simply something to think about as we discuss the issue amongst ourselves and publicly and how we interpret and decide the positions of people we elect who will ultimately decide what kind of system we have. What we want to aim for is a system which weights the doctors and the patients heavier than the taxpayer and the government bodies making the decisions as to what kind of care and what level of care is ultimately provided.