"I" Before "E" Except After "C"
By Dr. Ann
@drannhh (15219)
United States
December 11, 2007 3:03pm CST
...unless it says "AY" as in "neighbor" and "weigh"
Since this is an English language site and one of the most commonly made grammatical errors in English involves switching the letters "ie" for "ei" I'm curious how many people ever heard this rhyme before and if anyone besides me actually finds it useful in remembering how to spell things correctly.
Do you know of any exceptions to this rule?
This is not a criticism of anyone here and it is certainly true that many people for whom English is a first language still make this mistake. I am just bringing it up out of curiosity and also because I think using to help remember is a neat trick. I am still somewhat dependent on the calendar rhyme to recall how many days there are in each month, too.
7 people like this
14 responses
@kurtbiewald (2625)
• United States
11 Dec 07
My grammer was German
so I don't know
my mom does though
my mom doesn't even need a spell checker
can you imagine the advantage she would have if there was no software and no PCs
she would be the ONLY person to spell everything correctly
@GardenGerty (157555)
• United States
12 Dec 07
Niece is a word that plagues me, even though I know this rhyme, and say it all the time. I know there are exceptions, but they do not come to mind right now.If I dredge any up, I will pop in and add them. The reason I know that "niece" is a problem is because I use it often, and Firefox so nicely spell checks it and tells me I am wrong, wrong, wrong. I come into contact with these mnemonic devices or new ones, often, because I am working in a school. How about "When two vowels go a-walking, the first one does the talking. It says its long name." ? That was one I did not know until I started at this school. Now they even have rhymes for learning to write your numbers: "Around the tree, around the tree, that's the way you make a three."
2 people like this
@drannhh (15219)
• United States
12 Dec 07
I had never heard of the two vowels go a-walking rhyme either until we read about it in an education class where one researcher pointed out that it only worked 45% of the time in his study. Maybe that is why we never heard it before! For very young children such as your charges, though, it does seem quite useful especially with words such as "boat" or "tea" or "pain."
"Either" is an exception, I think, as is "neither."
3 people like this
@SViswan (12051)
• India
13 Dec 07
I've heard this rhyme before (but it was after I finished high school)..funny because I had English as a first language.
A couple of days back, I heard it again on 'Mind your language'.
But I must say that I do depend on the rhymes that I learnt as a kid to remember stuff. We had a teacher in Math who would makeup these little rhymes for us to remember stuff and it has stuck.
I use my knuckles to remember the days in each month and my 7 year old son does the same.
1 person likes this
@SViswan (12051)
• India
15 Dec 07
It's easy. Close your hand to form a fist. Start at a raised part for January. Raised month has 31 days and the depressed part (like a valley) has 30 days. So, start counting and when you reach the end at July (which is raised) count back starting at the raised part again (that is July) - August would be on the raised part too since it has 31 days. I know it sounds complicated here...but it's pretty simple if you can get someone to show you.
There's an explanation on this site.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Primary_mathematics/Time_math
The only diffence is that I use one hand and count back after July instead of using the other hand.
1 person likes this
@SViswan (12051)
• India
15 Dec 07
Here's another explanation (same as mine...and makes more sense:P)
Make a fist and look at your knuckles. Start at one knuckle (say, the one below the index finger). Count either a "hilltop" or a "valley" (between the knuckles) for each month. At the last knuckle (below the pinkie finger), you count the hilltop twice, and go back the same way. December will land you on the knuckle below the middle finger.
So what do you get? January, March, May, July, August, October, December are on a "hilltop"; February, April, June, September, November are in a "valley". Rule? Hilltop = 31 days, valley = 30 days, with exception of February.
@drannhh (15219)
• United States
14 Dec 07
If someone hasn't already done so, it would be great if you would start a new discussion and explain that knuckle rule, as I had never heard of it until recently and sometimes I forget parts of the calendar rhyme. We never leave home without our knuckles!
@aseretdd (13730)
• Philippines
12 Dec 07
I always make this mistake... receive or recieve... neither or niether... achieve or acheive... grief or greif... when i was still a teacher some english smart students would always point out my mistakes... and i would say that spelling is my waterloo... i never got into spelling bees...
But your way or remembering this "ie" "ei" thing is great... i just wish my elementary english teacher also knew this method...
The English language is so difficult when it comes to its rules... because there would always be and exemption...
@GardenGerty (157555)
• United States
12 Dec 07
Since their is from the word "they" I have not had a problem with it. Either and neither, yes, you are right. I think I still hear 'ay' in their, or almost do.
1 person likes this
@drannhh (15219)
• United States
12 Dec 07
Neither, which you mention above, is an exception, as are about a 100 other words, but of those in common usage, there are only a handful. Most of the exceptions can be remembered in some other catchy way. The most common mistakes I see concern the incorrect "thier" being used where "their" is the correct spelling, and "recieve" used wrongly in place of "receive" so although some say the exceptions make the rule worthless, I find it quite helpful as it jogs the memory to look up the ones about which I am unsure.
1 person likes this
@hillock (749)
• Qatar
13 Dec 07
oh my im way too guilty on this "i" and "e" thing..i still remember when i was in grade school that we spend a lot of time memorizing words that has ie and ei on it.
i also read this rule on a english grammar book for 9 - 10 yrs old. and somehow i realized i didnt listen well to my english teacher way back..LOL!
and if im writing something in the computer i always go to dictionary.com to check if my spelling is right.. ^-^
1 person likes this
@bong_domingo (878)
• Philippines
13 Dec 07
hands raised ! i'm guilty with that at times.... but study shows that no matter how we jumble the letters in between as long as we get the first and las letter in the correct place, our brain can still guess/read the given word :-)
1 person likes this
@bong_domingo (878)
• Philippines
13 Dec 07
and with human ambiguities, we are also influenced by those who say what is right or true :-)
1 person likes this
@mimpi1911 (25464)
• India
4 Jan 08
Oh drahhnn, I still go by the calender rhyme besides my knuckle trick, to remember the number of days in a month. And as for your topic of discussion, I would say it's 'freind' (which often gets to a terribly stupefying typo 'fiend') instead of 'friend' is very cliched.
@suspenseful (40193)
• Canada
14 Dec 07
I do find it useful to spell correctly. I am too upset right now to find out the exceptional rule and for those whose first language is English, it must be hard. That is why we who learned English from birth should be careful to show a good example. I used to learn things by rhyme when I was a kid and this method still sticks. Oh and to remember to use the speller checker. It works on Firefox, but I do not know when it comes to play on myLot.
@drannhh (15219)
• United States
14 Dec 07
You are right, and that is why I am embarrassed when I don't fix a typo here on myLot. Lately I've been making quite a few of them though, as I want to be sure to reply to all friend's discussions when possible, and there are so many active friends.
@abbey19 (3106)
• Gold Coast, Australia
16 Dec 07
Yes drannhh, I was brought up with this saying, and it has stayed with me all my life! I can't think of any exceptions to this rule at this moment, but I'm sure there are some.
I also still use the calendar rhyme to remember how many days there are in each month too!
@eyewitness (1575)
• Netherlands
12 Dec 07
I'm dutch but even in my own country people make a lot of mistakes.I think this problem started when msn messaging came.People made there own internet language so now people don't know what's the normal language and what is the internet language.
Some people are word blind and some just don't understand the grammer.
I was never good at grammer and i also had problems with math.But i was good in languages and i couldn't understand why people couldn't pronounce some words because i never had problems with it.But they couldn't understand why i had problems with math.
But it's just recognition.
1 person likes this
@drannhh (15219)
• United States
12 Dec 07
But you are such a GOOD spieler. Nice try. "Their" is not an exception to the so-called rule because it says "AY" as in neighbor and weigh...sort of. Thayre, thayre, now, don't feel bad.
Science is an exception, though, and most of the words pertaining to it.
@girlgonefishing (2174)
• United States
14 Dec 07
Oh I always use that too! I know there are exceptions besides the ones already posted here but, I can't for the life of me think of one single example right now. I'm behind posting on mylot lately because hubby and/or the kids have been home a lot.
@mrsjbelle (1640)
• United States
12 Dec 07
Wow I always use that rhyme but I didnt know the last part of it. How interesting:) Another one I use is Never Eat Shredded Wheat. North South East West clockwise.
1 person likes this
