Proof of God?

Thailand
May 4, 2008 10:11pm CST
I need to preface this with a statement of my position. I am an agnostic leaning towards the atheist’s side of things. Being agnostic, I am open to proof of either of the existence of God or up the absence of God. There are things that I cannot except as proof. My mother and father have never lied to me and they told me there is a God. Therefore there must be a God. This is not proof to me. The Bible tells me there is a God, so there must be a God. This again is not proof. The universe is so complex that I cannot understand it. Because I cannot understand this complexity there must be a God. Still, no proof. Is there proof of God or for that matter is their proof there is no God?
4 people like this
8 responses
• United States
5 May 08
How about because I can feel him inside me? That's proof enough for me. If you don't have him inside, you, you can not ever understand can you? The Bible even says you can't understand unless you have the spirit. I guess there is no solid "proof", you have to want to accept the gift he offers. All I can tell you is that I was atheist 26 years ago. My parents never ever said if there was or wasn't God. My Grandmother said there wasn't though and we weren't allowed to bring him up unless we were swearing or telling a dirty joke. I asked Jesus to come into my heart, He did and my life has never been the same.
1 person likes this
@dbzfan (254)
• India
5 May 08
Well My friend Also Asks The Same Thing. Then i Began My Q&A to Him. Have u Ever Seen Air? He Said "Hell No" Adn Have u Ever Seen Africa? Again He Replied No. And Then i Said it,s Not Neccessary That if u Don,t Visited That Place or Person. That Doesn,t Mean It Doesn,t Exist.
@santuccie (3374)
• United States
5 May 08
You make a good point, but I'd say it takes more than that. I am in fact a believer, and technically on your side; but I was agnostic until I was 16, when scientific evidence not only "failed to disprove the existence of God," but indeed went so far as to manifest a necessity for intelligent intervention. As it were, the laws of nature alone cannot jump-start life, then sustain it while guiding its evolution into millions of species, each of which may have billions or even trillions of members, no two of which are exactly alike. And before an atheist can attempt to explain diversity through either of the two main evolutionary theories (natural selection or mutation), they still have to explain the various phenomena of biology itself, such as how amino acids were ever able to join together in the presence of oxygen, let alone like-handed amino acids. It's not enough to tell an atheist that they cannot disprove God's existence, because all the beauty and symmetry of nature are apparently not enough to impress them. They will continue to doubt, and take such wonderful things for granted, until you give them evidence which states not only that they're wrong, but that you're right. Cheers!
• Thailand
6 May 08
Please tell me: "when scientific evidence not only "failed to disprove the existence of God," but indeed went so far as to manifest a necessity for intelligent intervention." Unless I missed something science has never set out to either prove or disprove God. It has certainly never "manifest a necessity for intelligent intervention."
@santuccie (3374)
• United States
6 May 08
Clearly you don't know what "science" means. It means the gathering and analyzing of data. Science does not start with a hypothesis; that is only the third step. The first step is observation, and thus the beginning of creation science, which you are apparently going to argue until you're blue in the face involves no science at all. Clearly you also did not read the information I linked to previously. There is plenty of scientific evidence to manifest the necessity for intelligent intervention, some of which you will find in my previous post. In case you haven't learned this lesson in your 64 years on this earth, you do not win arguments by simply saying, "Nope, you're wrong." You have to substantiate your claims. I've been doing this; you have not.
@ClarusVisum (2163)
• United States
5 May 08
There is no proof of the existence of any god or gods, period. In fact, you are right to be agnostic (which actually doesn't have to do with theistic belief, but about belief in the impossibility of proving a god or gods) because it is impossible for a natural being like a human to be able to prove the existence of a SUPERnatural agent, like a god (or ghosts, or anything else like that). There isn't proof there is no god, because it's impossible to prove a universal negative. It is the burden of the theist to prove that god exists, not for the atheist to "disprove" it. Christians can't prove that Odin (for example) doesn't exist, but they have no problem not believing in Odin. So why should they hold atheists to a different standard?
• France
6 May 08
I agree completely that it it upto the Theists to prove God's existence. I do not believe in ghosts. But after I saw A few scary movies I could not sleep at night. Whenever I closed my eyes I felt that Jason would come to chop my head off with a chainsaw.I felt the presence of spirits and ghosts lurking around me when I tried to go to the bathroom in the dark. So I could not actually see anything, but felt their presence. So does Jason,Freddie, Chucky, ghosts anf ghouls exist?Even the most devout Theist would say that I am just a scared cat, that I was being silly. but when it comes to god,it's just about FEELING His divine presence-that's enough proof that God exists. No need of scientific proofs. When I first read Harry Potter, I felt that everything in the book was real. I knew it was absurd, but I wanted it to be real. Besides, Noone can disprove that Hogwarts exists. So we can take that Hogwarts does exist. These aren't proofs. And the scientific evidentce the creationists provide are just meant to disprove the theory of evolution. As if if the theory of evolution were disproved, creationism would emerge as the only truth. It might just be that creatures came to be in some other way, which noone has thought of yet. I hope it does not sound all gibberish. I wrote whatever came in my head.
• United States
6 May 08
What you said makes sense. You make a good point about the strength of human imagination, and basically how easy it is for us to be 'fooled' in some way or another. When you immerse yourself in a subject, you really do start to 'feel' it around you, don't you? When you walk out of a martial arts movie, you feel like a martial artist yourself for a short time, don't you? It's all the same, except that when it comes to most of these religious people, that 'immersion' never ends. A martial arts movie is over in a few hours, but a religion can be lifelong, and so that 'feeling' can last indefinitely, possibly preventing the person from EVER returning to reality.
@danzer (2732)
• Philippines
5 May 08
You don't need to go far and wide, deep and up to find proof of God. Your mere existence is a proof that there is God. Your inner being tells you there is God, your environment tells you there is God. You cannot see God, because if you see Him, you need to die because you are sinful and God is holy.
• Thailand
5 May 08
I am afraid I must humbly and respectfully disagree with you. My inner being, if anything tells me that in fact there is no God. The question of sin? I do not believe in the existence of sin. I believe that there are correct actions and incorrect actions in this world but there is nothing that falls under the blanket of sin. Sin is an invented concept used to bring the masses into conformity.
1 person likes this
• Philippines
6 May 08
Chiang_Mai_boy; to be honest, Im not that scientific nor have any higher education attained in my life. But I do read the bible and some science books. Tho my knowledge in science of man is limited and so little. I'l try to show you what I've seen and share whats inside my little and hallow nut shells, so bare with because Im not good in english grammar. Im from Philippines FIY. Correct me in the ff. if im wrong: ---Science stablished its knowledge base on things that already existing thru observation, exprerimentation etc... It cannot stablished FACTS unless it is already existing and undergo the process of scientific method. (I hope I was right) My conclusion: --science of man really cannot stablished its on FACTS but rather it only acquires knowledge from something existing. But, KNOWLEDGE/WISDOM was already established before scientist have known it and acquires the knowledge and wisdom around him. E=MC2, newtons law, law of gravity etc. are just derived from nature where knowledge/wisdom is existing and already established long before we exist. ---the science of man are keeps changing, upgrading thru expreriences before, new discovers that proves the later are not true and inaccurate. But, the science/wisdom of God is perfect. It doesnt change even thru times. One example is...... long before man discovered that the earth is round, God already declared it in: Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth,....." --God already stablished his FACTS/KNOWLEDGE/WISDOM thru His creation. **I dont know if I've explained it to you exactly what I wanted to, but I believe and hope, there is God, whom can do things beyond what I can Do. I've found this site recently, but I havent read all the article's in it that proofs the excisting of God. You can check it out. www.esoriano.wordpress.com
@underdogtoo (9601)
• Philippines
6 May 08
You say that you are agnostic which to my mind is saying that nothing can truly be known. This is a view which distorts as well as respects knowledge. There is only one kind of knowledge and that is knowledge gained by direct experience. When you talk about your parents and bibles you are talking about knowledge by way of authority which is inferior to knowledge by way of direct apprehension as when someone tells you about the sweetness of mango (this is knowledge by authority) and eating the mango and knowing how sweet it is (this is knowledge by direct apprehension). Only by knowing god do you directly know god. There is no more discussion and no more talking when that happens. Cheers!!!
• Pakistan
5 May 08
HERE I HAVE FOUND SOMETHING FOR YOU MAY BE IT CAN HELP YOU OUT. http://www.everystudent.com/features/isthere.html
• India
5 May 08
Well, as a proof I can't say anything, but when we look at the world I see clues that point to God. The longing for beauty, the reason for the existence of cosmos, the way the universe is neatly designed etc I think all point to something beyond just the material world. And moreover, looking at the life and teaching of Jesus give me some very fair reason to believe that there must be some highher being. Don't you think so? However, I think the question need to be addressed as a worldview too...meaning the way one looks at the entire reality. It is quite possible to look out and say I see nothing, but it is quite possible to say the opposite as well.