It's just not feminism

@p1kef1sh (45640)
November 24, 2008 8:26am CST
Germaine Greer, a well known feminist writer, has said that thin celebrity women who work at being small sized using surgery etc to maintain their lightweight status, should not be regarded as feminist icons. Is a woman's size anything to do with whether she can be called a feminist. Does her size influence in the eyes of others whether a woman can be a feminist at all?
9 people like this
24 responses
• Australia
24 Nov 08
I haven't come across this particular bit of Greer, but knowing her stance on other things I would have thought that she was making the point that using body modification to conform to society's ideas of attractivenmess, or even their own internalised version of that, is not feminist, no matter how well they may have succeeded as women in a man's world. Mind you, she's just a grumpy old woman these days lol. (She's one of the few women who scare me - she'd be the uberDomina of all time if she leant that way.) Lash
3 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
25 Nov 08
I'm pretty sure that you are right in that. I have read some speculation that she fired the words off the cuff and that they fell "wrongly". She has become a radical that has morphed into the establishment over here and she sits in a group of other women that one finds hectoring and just blooming annoying! LOL. I can readily understand your perception of her potential as a domina. At least you'd get an interesting conversation out of her!
3 people like this
@nannacroc (4049)
24 Nov 08
Size shouldn't matter and this surprised me coming from Germaine Greer. It's not good to hold thin people up as role models to young girls but some people are naturally thin. How can your size influence whether you're a feminist or not. Personally I don't think this woman is a feminist icon. She's a member of a rubbish group and it's on a par with saying The Spice Girls were supporters of girl power. Carol Vorderman is more my idea of someone to aspire to be like.
2 people like this
@nannacroc (4049)
24 Nov 08
So glad I annoyed you. I wasn't really thinking of recently, I was thinking that she is both clever and reasonably pretty and couldn't think of anyone else.
2 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
24 Nov 08
I thought that you'd be pleased. LOL.
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@p1kef1sh (45640)
24 Nov 08
Now this is extremely difficult for me my Swedish friend. Nanna is my evil twin sister and will torture me in an excruciating way if I so much as rise to the bait. So I will have to satisfy you by saying "quality counts more than quantity" at times.
2 people like this
@oldboy46 (2132)
• Australia
25 Nov 08
Germaine Greer did a lot of good for the women's movement in the 1960's and 1970's and a number of friends were strong supporters of hers. However in recent years she is living off her past and "sullying" it as a result by some of the things she has been saying and doing. Some of these extremely outrageous comments of hers have nothing to do with feminism. In fact the feminisit in this world should be hoping that these strange announcements that Germaine Greer makes are largely ignored. As far as I understood the feminist movement was all about empowering women and giving them equal rights in this world. If you are old enough to remember back that far you will no doubt recall that in general women did not hold senior management positions in companies. They did not receive equal pay and in many instances when the woman married she was expected to leave work. The size of a woman has nothing at all to do with feminism. Surely if a woman chooses to diet or have surgery etc it is because she wants to and that is her decision. Yes there might be some women who go to extremes when it comes t size and beauty for the male in their life, but not all women are like that. Think it is long past time when the media stopped reporting these weird comments from Germaine Greer. She realy is an unattractive person to look at and these days her scathing comments indicate to me that she is also an unattractive unhappy person on the inside.
2 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
25 Nov 08
I agree that the size of a woman is immaterial unless she is doing it for the "wrong" reasons of course. I agree completely about Germaine Greer. She is is one of those people that they drag out when they need a feminist sound bite. Trouble is she is sounding more and more "off message". I think that she even started to make the sorts of comments about young men that she condemned men for saying about women not too long ago.
3 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
30 Nov 08
So two wrongs make a right Sharra? Or an equality? LOL.
@dawnald (84146)
• Shingle Springs, California
24 Nov 08
Why should there be a relationship between the two? It's the persons deeds, not their size that determines what they are.
2 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
24 Nov 08
I agree Dawn. I imagine that she thinks that these women are giving into male stereotypical images of how young women should look.
3 people like this
@dawnald (84146)
• Shingle Springs, California
30 Nov 08
Maybe so but if somebody's pretty and just naturally thin? They should maybe dress like their grandmother in order to be allowed into the great order of feminists?
@pumpkinjam (5800)
• United Kingdom
25 Nov 08
I can see the logic in it. Feminism is, supposedly, about equality and not having to be an object to be ogled by men so, in that way, a woman who does so much to try and stay thin because they think that is what is required of them or they think other people will think they look better is not really a good advert for feminism. However, people can still want to look good for themselves which is an entirely different matter and, I think, the point is that they are doing it because they want to and are successful, not relying on a man to pay for it or anything. There are certain people, not necessarily feminist icons, who I admire and respect because they are successful in their own right and have lost weight to become a size which they are comfortable with. I don't see any problem with that although I do think that deliberately trying to get down to a size 6 by any means when that is not your natural size just because it is fashion or because you think that men like it, that is NOT feminism. Anyway, I don't go for all this feminist stuff. I don't want to be equal to any man - why would I lower myself?
2 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
25 Nov 08
Indeed Pumpkin. Why lower yourself. If they do it for themselves then that has to be OK. However, if they do it to give themselves an edge and to meet and expectation of what is "beautiful" the I can see that it is not so sound.
2 people like this
@sharra1 (6342)
• Australia
25 Nov 08
Are now she is not talking about size as such she is talking about doctoring their size artificially and that is about following the beauty myth which is not what feminism is about. Size makes no difference to a feminist but to doctor your body to fit some false idea of beauty is to fall prey to the patriarchal view of women. If a woman is naturally thin fine but body sculpting, no way!! These women are using body sculpting to keep their jobs because they are afraid the men will sack them if they do not maintain a youthful figure and that is an attack on feminism and puts us right back into the pit that patriarchy made for us that we are only of use when we are decorative! That view is not acceptable. Only when it is ok to gain weight, ok to get old and have wrinkled skin and ok to have grey hair and still be seen for the natural beauty of the person and not the shell will we truly be free!!
@p1kef1sh (45640)
25 Nov 08
But isn't that an assumption Sharra? That it's the men that they are doing it for? They may be doing it to fit a stereotypical male dominated perspective, but they may also be doing it because they want to or the female managed (but not owned) media in this country is telling them that size 6 is good (but not as good as size 0). I don't know, I don't really see why size should matter, provided that it doesn't give you an edge over everyone else. Which of course it does and that means that they are doing it for the wrong reasons, which means that you are quite correct. Darn it! LOL.
2 people like this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
25 Nov 08
And what's wrong with men?............... LOL.
2 people like this
• Australia
26 Nov 08
Just let us know your flight number and arrival time in Brisbane lol. Lash
1 person likes this
@gabs8513 (48715)
• United Kingdom
24 Nov 08
Well I would not have thought so but again I say that they are not real when they have all these Operations lol, but that is just my way of thinking, as they say it is plastic Surgery so of course to me they are not themselves they have made themselves, hmmmmm I hope you get what I mean as I am confusing myself here
1 person likes this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
24 Nov 08
I'm a tad confused too Gabs. Are you saying that by having surgery they cannot be regarded as feminist icons. I.e. women should not look up to them as role models?
2 people like this
@gabs8513 (48715)
• United Kingdom
24 Nov 08
No I believe that they are feminist because to me everybody to their own I just think that it does not matter how you look, you are still feminist, it should not go by Looks, my personal feelings to People who have the Surgery, to look better thinner are not the ones I would look up at personaaly, but it does not mean that they are not feminist
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@p1kef1sh (45640)
24 Nov 08
I agree with that Gabs. Thank you for clarifying it.
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@littleowl (7157)
24 Nov 08
Hi p1ke being honest I dont see any reason why that has to have anything to do with being a feminist..more than likely just vanity lol...hugs littleowl
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@p1kef1sh (45640)
24 Nov 08
Almost definitely so Littleowl. But vanity and feminism are not the same thing are they?
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@littleowl (7157)
24 Nov 08
Vainity is just wanting to loo good physically and in appearance that is definitley not feminism, a feminist is normally someone who sticks up for womens rights so its the brains that count not looks as Tamara said...littleowl
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@p1kef1sh (45640)
24 Nov 08
Agreed. Sorry I didn't put it very well. I was agreeing with you. XX
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@laglen (19780)
• United States
25 Nov 08
I have never cared for the feminist movement myself. I do not need help to prove I can do something better than a man. I think the whole thing is ridiculous. I believe that God made us different for a reason and we should embrace and celebrate those differences! I think the twiggys of the world do not help, but personally, I am above that. If a women has to go to such great lengths to feel good about herself, she still won't after that surgery. I find it all sad!
@p1kef1sh (45640)
25 Nov 08
I think that was what Germaine Greer was saying really Laglen.
@nadooa247 (1096)
• United States
25 Nov 08
i don't think that the issue is the size per say rather at what lengths these women go to keep their at many times unrealistic expectations of how they should look. Perhaps the people that say they shouldn't be considered feminists say that based on what lengths these small sized women go to in order to fit into some expectation that has been put into place of what beauty is. Size shouldn't matter i agree however these women are making it an issue... just something to think about.
1 person likes this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
25 Nov 08
I think that the objection is that women make themselves artificially attractive to me to some male stereotypical ideal. I don't think that size per se does matter.
• United States
25 Nov 08
well some people might think that a thin woman who has dominated a mans world might have gotten there on her back rather than with her brains. i think that the whole feminist thing is a bunch of crap. why do we have to label everything. why can't we just see that women have changed and are now becoming independent. we can do for ourselves what was once a man's job. why dont we just get rid of the whole "feminist" movement and just realize the world is changing.
1 person likes this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
25 Nov 08
The power to do that is in your hands. Women have equality in many parts of the world now.
@fifileigh (3619)
• United States
25 Nov 08
no. it is just a part of their career to look their best in front of the camera. it is a part of their job to look glamorous, slim and always perfect, even though they may not be in real life.
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@p1kef1sh (45640)
25 Nov 08
Provided that they aren't doing because they are coerced then I guess that it's OK.
1 person likes this
• India
25 Nov 08
Well.... I am not really sure... but don't guys love the small petite type? Don't they feel threatened by the existence of bigger women who might be stronger than them physically, mentally, and emotionally? I am a bit on the sturdy side, and I am sure not a single guy has felt comfortable around me, especially when I make it quite clear that I can take care of myself. LOL!! I think men love women they can "protect," so the smaller and weaker the woman, the better for the male ego. Of course, I am not sure... this is just what I think based on my own experience. Cheers and happy mylotting
1 person likes this
@p1kef1sh (45640)
25 Nov 08
That's just it Positive. Why should women style themselves to fit a masculine ideal? Feminists would argue that how you look should make no difference and that you can be fat or thin, pretty or ugly without fear or favour.
1 person likes this
24 Nov 08
Hi p1key, I don't think a women's size has got anything to do with them being a feminist, they can look like a fluffy pinky girly girl but can still be a feminist, its their opinion and brains that counts, they only look like that because they have the right to look any way they want to. Hugs. Tamara
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@p1kef1sh (45640)
24 Nov 08
Hmmm. I wonder what Germaine Greer would make of fluffy and pink Tamara. LOL. You are right of course.
1 person likes this
• United States
24 Nov 08
IMO that would be an oxymoron. Feminists seek to correct inequality in gender yet could not be a feminist because of inequality in size!
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@p1kef1sh (45640)
24 Nov 08
I think that's right. I don't quite understand what Greer is on about. I think that the omen are potty to undergo surgery etc, but it's their choice and doesn't erode their rights any as I see it.
1 person likes this
@bhanusb (5709)
• India
24 Nov 08
Size of a woman can't be a subject of a feminist.Some feminists are going to be crazy.I think feminists are those who are fighting for the estublishment of women's rights.Some feminists want to be manlike.I think these feelings are inferiority complex.Feminists are not against men. They are against oppression on women.
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@p1kef1sh (45640)
24 Nov 08
Agreed Bhansub. Absolutely.
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@34momma (13895)
• United States
24 Nov 08
now that is a concept i have never heard of before. i would prefer if woman who wanted to be smaller in weight did so for health reason, but i don't know if those woman who choose to be thin can't be a feminist. i mean you can be what ever you want to be. choose is your only tool or key to success. truth is perception and everyones truth is not the same.
@p1kef1sh (45640)
24 Nov 08
Yes. It's about choice as I see it Momma and not coercion.
1 person likes this
@liquorice (3901)
24 Nov 08
I don't think it's a woman's size that affects whether or not she can be called a feminist. I think it's more how you feel about your body. When somebody wants to change the shape/size of her body to conform to the idea of what the "perfect woman" should look like, according to society and the media, then I think that this is rather anti-feminist. Being happy with your body and being proud to look like a real woman is more in line with what feminism is all about. That and accepting that what's on the inside is more important than your outside appearance.
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@p1kef1sh (45640)
24 Nov 08
I think that's pretty much my view too. If I'm entitled to one!
2 people like this
• United States
29 Nov 08
Poppycock! A woman's actions should speak more to be an icon than her size! Ms. Greer should have a numbing shot to her...............somewhere, to make her think twice before making such statements!
• United States
29 Nov 08
I meant to being an icon
@p1kef1sh (45640)
29 Nov 08
I saw her on TV last night and she seemed to brush over the subject. Maybe she's settled into being grumpy these days!
@guybrush (4660)
• Australia
26 Nov 08
I actually agree with a lot of things Germaine says (unpopular as they may be) - but I don't think size has anything to do with how one feels inside regarding feminism. Germy probably thinks women who undergo cosmetic procedures are 'selling out' and trying to portray themselves as something they're not. Maybe she's under the (probably mistaken) belief women have surgery to please men. I think it's more likely they do it to impress other women. The female brain is a complicated thing - I'm glad mine shut down years ago ...
@p1kef1sh (45640)
26 Nov 08
I think that she is saying that by maintaining a lightweight, sylph like appearance, they are pandering to male expectations of beauty (not this male's who prefers his women Rubenesque). If that is the case then maybe she has a point. I can only agree with you about the female brain - I hadn't noticed that yours had shutdown - but if you say so dear!!
@guybrush (4660)
• Australia
26 Nov 08
* mumble, mumble, dribble, dribble, blah, blah, blah ... *