"We do not consider ourselves a Christian nation..." - P. Obama
By Latrivia
@Latrivia (2878)
United States
April 8, 2009 9:01am CST
For once I actually agree with our President. Outrage has been sparked among Christian fundamentalists in our country who balk at the idea that this country is not Christian. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the stupid lame-brained argument that our laws are derived from Judeo-Christian morals.
First of all, let's a address what "Christian nation" means. Some believe that "Christian nation" applies to our country because most of our citizens happen to be Christian. The problem with this is that the religion of the majority does not make the country that religion in nature. Just as you would not call our country a "white country", even though the majority of our population is white (52% based on the last census), you can't really call our country a Christian country. It would be more accurate to say that we a nation with a Christian majority.
"Christian nation" is a dominionistic term. The basic belief behind it is that our Founding Fathers were overwhelmingly Christian, and that our laws are derived from Judeo-Christian principles. While it is true that our Founding Fathers were largely Christian, it is incorrect to say our laws have any roots in Christian morality. Our own first amendment contradicts over half of the basic moral principles of the Judeo-Christian religions (i.e the 10 commandments). While people can throw quotes on religion from our founding fathers back and forth to attempt to prove the religious or non-religious foundation of the country, at the end of the day the highest laws of our land set up an inherently secular governing system.
So in short, Obama was actually somewhat right about something. We may not all think this is not a Christian nation, however, the highest laws of our land ensure that this is definitely NOT a christian nation. The religion of the majority is irrelevant, as a country is not made christian, jewish, or muslim by population alone.
4 people like this
16 responses
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
8 Apr 09
This is to an extent true. However, we were in fact founded on the ideals that our liberty is derived from "God". There is no specific demonination mentioned in any of our founding documents, though washington is himself a devout christian and mentions jeasus frequently. It is unlikely that the people who founded this country were jewish, muslum, budhist, hindu or anything but at least the loose defintion of "christian", many could probably be more described as believing in and worshiping "God", dietists is probably more the acurate term, though most were prodistins (spelling?) and puritins at least in a mild way.
It is certain however they did not want us to be a nation governed by religion itself and wanted everyone to be able to practice their respective religions freely, within reason and without hinderence of law, again, with in reason, provided the constitution, based on the notion our rights are derived from "God", is not usurped.
2 people like this
@Latrivia (2878)
• United States
8 Apr 09
"However, we were in fact founded on the ideals that our liberty is derived from "God"."
I suppose that depends on the documents you're looking at. The constitution doesn't even mention anything about God or a creator, from what I remember. I'm never sure if they used the term "Creator" as a substitute for God, or if they purposely used it in consideration of other religions.
1 person likes this
@peavey (16936)
• United States
8 Apr 09
I am a born again "fundamentalist" and I agree that our nation is not Christian. Far from it. If it was, we wouldn't be having the moral dilemmas we have today. It was at one time pretty much run by Christians, but it was founded on the idea of freedom of religion (NOT freedom FROM religion). This came about because England had a "state religion" that all were required to adhere to. We have the freedom (supposedly, anyway) to be Christian or not as we choose - to be Buddhist, Pagan, Gaian, Muslim... I can only hope and pray that those freedoms will not be taken away to be replaced by a state religion called atheism.
2 people like this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
8 Apr 09
Gee, I really wanted to give you a thoughtful and meaningful response but I'm afraid you pretty much covered it. It's always offended me a bit when people say without religion there can be no morals or values. My own brother is an avowed atheist and he's one of the most moral, generous and family oriented person I've ever known. Someone's religious faith, or lack thereof, is their own personal business.
Annie
1 person likes this
@catabianca (142)
• Tunisia
8 Apr 09
The" real democracy is in religion and beliefs freedom!
Hope you are democratical believing with mutual respects with your ,neighbourgs from other religious faith!
1 person likes this
@opalina143 (1240)
• Morristown, New Jersey
8 Apr 09
I really agree with you. our country was not founded to be a theocracy, but a democracy, as in freedom of religion. Our government is based on freedoms (speech,religion, etc) and not Christianity. Also, it is a myth that all the founding fathers were Christians. Most were Deists, people who believed in God but not Christianity.
Also, ever notice that the people who say that our nation is a Christian nation are only talking about THEIR OWN type of Christianity? They are usually born again fundamentalists, and they mean themselves and not Catholics or Methodists or Mormons, only themselves, and fundamentalists are a MINORITY in this country.
1 person likes this
@ralphie12 (1)
• United States
29 Apr 09
All founding fathers were CHRISTIAN. No doubt about it.. This Deist theory you throw about is a hippy term derived in the 60's from smoking too much you know what. They fled England to avoid oppression based on their religion, which was an open form of Christianity, rejecting the King as the leader of their religion.. much like the Pope is for Catholics. They believed in Jesus and that makes them Christians.. sorry, not Deists.
@Citychic (4067)
• United States
8 Apr 09
I think that Pres. Obama was just calling it like he see it, we are a nation of diversity....... A people of mixed religions and ethnicities........ I was somewhat shocked when I heard him say this also but the vast majority of americans do seem to be content in thinking that America is a christian nation even though we are still killing unborn babies and doing some of everything else under the sun that isn't christ-like.
1 person likes this
@ClassyCat (1214)
• United States
9 Apr 09
Many would like the 'born again' christians (didn't know there was another kind - to be shut up or locked up)but anyway - if we are to truely follow what we are taught, we are to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and not be ashamed of Him, or being called a christian.
But as I have seen over the years, there are many changes taking place where in some point in time, there will be a move to "shut us up, and determine what we can and cannot say."
There are traces of that in our society already.
We are NOW a corrupt and greedy nation. We spend more time on pursuing "things" and having our way or else.
We kill our unborn babies, and call them a fetus to sooth our conscience.
We slap a rapist on the hand and shame him - MAYBE he might see the inside of a prison.
People steal and get away with it.
Someone gets beat up on the street while passers by do nothing.
We have idolatry running rampant, and all kinds of criticism against churches and all christians in general - - so I would say we were at one time a Christian nation.
But today - we are an apostate nation.
Sorry - just telling it like "I" see it.
@Citychic (4067)
• United States
12 Apr 09
Our nation, is it christian or what?
Well now my dear friend, I have to agree and also disagree...... by that I mean we are erring away from God as a nation which would settle the dispute concerning us being an apostate nation.... but for those that choose to follow God, they always have that option. While yes there will always be those that oppose the christian way of life and all that it stands for........ I thank God that in general we all have the right to choose whatever it is that we want to stand for.......True again they are taking God out of the public schools and they say they do not want children saying the prayers or having a moment of silence........... While I find this very disturbing I realize that all must stand for something or we will fall for anything. Right now our nation is falling b/c we are trying to leave God out of the picture. To me this is so sad..... back when I was a child in school, we did the moment of silence and it didn't hurt a thing.
@livewyre (2450)
•
8 Apr 09
A nation cannot have a faith, the only Christian 'nation' would be the church which is led by God. As a Christian, I think it is a mistake to have a state which is linked to a church such as the Church of England, it only leads to compromise which is exactly what we have - a very weak church which trues to be politically correct instead of forthright on real issues.
Personally I think that the places where the true church grows, are where the state opposes the church, not where the state and the church try to appease each other.
Let me correct one idea, the idea that a person can be nominally Christian is incorrect therefore it is very unlikely that the majority of US citizens are actually Christian although they might generally agree with Christian principles. In order to become a Christian, one must accept Jesus Christ as ones saviour, not simply subscribe to general Biblical teachings. This is not true of other faiths where you can be born into a religion, therefore it is possible to have a Muslim nation where the majority are born into Muslim families, the same is also true of Judaism.
Western states are pretty much humanist if they are anything, they are governed by Democracies so cannot be religious states as far as I can see.
1 person likes this
@p3halliwel2005 (3156)
• Philippines
8 Apr 09
I totally agree with you on this. A country cannot be considered just a one religion when different religion resides in it and even if the majority is Christians we should also consider the other religions behind the country. I agree with Obama on this as well.
@Barbietre (1438)
• United States
8 Apr 09
This is very true. We are a very diverse nation, and that is what makes us unique. Life would be very boring if we all thought alike. Think of the Stepford wives.hehehe
@sataness (321)
•
8 Apr 09
I think that's proberley the smartest thing i've heard him say. A good political stance too lol now he can't be roped into religious debates and fights that most states have dealt with in history. It's a good way of moving into the future and trying to mend the rifts there are in his nation. Well, at least that's what i think
Happy mylotting
1 person likes this
@6precious102 (4043)
• United States
11 Apr 09
Why do you think Obama made that declaration? What sort of impact will it have on the world? Will it make other nations friendlier toward us? Do you think Obama felt he need to say it?
@Latrivia (2878)
• United States
7 May 09
My responses in the order you asked your questions: 1.)Because we aren't. 2.)It reaffirms the fact that our country is secular and therefore less likely to persecute another religion because of Christian biases. 3.)Perhaps 4.)Obviously he did, or he wouldn't have said it.
@6precious102 (4043)
• United States
7 May 09
I wish we were a Christian nation and that people practiced what Christ taught. I think we'd be a better country. Unfortunately, even those who claim to be Christian very often fail to behave as Christ taught.
@bestboy19 (5478)
• United States
11 Apr 09
What do you think Obama meant when he said that and who is this "we"? Was he stating a fact or a personal desire? Where we ever a Christian nation and if so, when did we stop being one?
@Anora_Eldorath (6028)
• United States
9 Apr 09
I'm very glad he's made this statement because it needs to be said. It's very frustrating for some who are not Christian to be told that our government was founded on Christianity, when indeed it was not. Proof is in the documents by the founding father's themselves.
http://www.ecis.com/~alizard/founding-fathers-xtianity.html
http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html
This is not a referral link, but a link to an article on what the founding fathers had to say about Christianity/Religion.
Namaste-Anora
@NefariousFox (161)
• United States
9 Apr 09
As an atheist, I'm having a sort of "finally" moment, where all my life I've known that America is not a Christian nation, and I'm very tired of people saying that it is over and over again, which makes a non-religious person seem to be unpatriotic. And to have Obama finally acknowledge the "should be well understood" truth is refreshing.
Best of luck,
-Fox
@loudcry (1043)
• India
8 Apr 09
One needs to make a distinction between the terms, nation and state. I think it is alright to call the U.S a christian nation but not a christian state. A christian state would mean the laws are derived from religious doctrine.
Ofcourse, it would be best to keep religion out of public life all together. One should practice religion at home and not overtly display ones religion in public.
I am from India. Religion is rather rampant here. It occupies pretty much a centre stage in politics.
@quickinstinct (432)
• United States
8 Apr 09
As it should be, religion should have nothing to do with government.
