"He who is without sin..."

@ElicBxn (60053)
United States
January 20, 2010 1:58am CST
I have a friend here - and I hope I don't upset her by starting this discussion - but I won't name names. Anyway - she is always saying things along the lines of "so-and-so did this to me to punish me for being immoral." Now, I've made some mistakes - heck, you live over a half century, you make some doozies and I'm no exception. And some bad things have happened to me. But I have never said to myself "they are punishing me for doing this bad thing." Not to say that some things have happened to me as punishment for doing a few of them, but I don't go projecting that every time someone does something that might harm me its to punish me. In my friend's case - yes, some things were done to her because of her previous bad behavior that she had repented of and hopefully God had at least forgiven her, things that should NOT have happened if the religious institution had been obeying the Lord's mandates. I might add that while this friend reminded me of this, I have actually met people who really are neurotically convinced that everything anyone says to them is to punish or hurt them - you will note I do not call those people friends - because you can only put up with so much paranoia before you decide to leave them alone. So, do you know (or are you one) those who think people are out to get them/you? That everything that has been/is being done to you is as punishment for something in your past? These days - I am not having to put up with that stuff - but I wasn't being paranoid when the new supervisor took over before I retired from the State - she really was out to get me - because I dared to call her a racist.
8 people like this
18 responses
@writersedge (22579)
• United States
20 Jan 10
Yeah, I had a friend that I just recently told to get lost because every opposing opinion was an insult to her. The only way you could not insult her was to agree with everything she said. The final straw was when she almost made me loose out on work because she kept insisting I was trying to hurt her feelings or that I was wrong and she was right. I wasted time that morning with her online and I got sick of agreeing with her. I almost lost work because I have to check a site that gives out substitute teaching assignments. Besides, I realized, I don't really care what she has to say about anything. She argues over everything. Someone insulted my friend, called her a lesbian, she's bi. So the person was 1/2 right, she's living with another woman, logical thought on the other person's side. My husband isn't mourning the loss of his job, health, family ties, he's just depressed. So whether he's mourning the losses or just depressed about the losses, why argue forever about it? It also dawned on me that she brow beats or bullies or wears people down. An entire morning on nothing, but she wanted to fight. Then she says everyone where I live is nasty. That was IT! She used to live here and if everyone was like her, she'd be right. I worked with her and no one could get along with her. No one could see how I could. I could because I humored her, but no more. She has been let go at every job she's ever had. She argues over nothing. I told her to go get help. She gets angry and says, "I'm a social worker, I don't need help, how insulting!" Well, of course it is. I'm trying to help, but she insists on ruining her life instead of getting help. I'm not the first person to tell her that and I won't be the last. So I told her she doesn't know what an insult is and insulted her for real. If she wants to wear out friends and family (they can't take her either) and loose every job she gets, that's her problem. Enough is enough. Sorry to vent. My days are sooo much happier without her. I can say something and move on. Not fight over every word that I choose or just be a yes person, Yup, ahuh, whatever you say, yup, ahuh. Most times I agree to disagree unless I think it's important enough to actually argue.
@ElicBxn (60053)
• United States
20 Jan 10
You probably let her hang on too long before kicking her out of your life. I'm rather that way too, not to fight until I' pushed to the brink!
1 person likes this
@GardenGerty (90229)
• Marion, Kansas
20 Jan 10
I know people who feel this way. I do not feel like this. I know that I, like everyone else, am offered forgiveness, that is not the church that offers this, but the Lord. I have to be brave enough to accept this forgiveness. I do not believe that forgiveness puts me beyond the natural consequences of my deeds. Being forgiven by God does not mean that I will not be required to make restitution for what I have damaged or broken. I have to be brave enough to live with the natural consequences. Sometimes people are out to get you, but not all the time. God is not out to get you, except to get you to accept His love.
2 people like this
@ElicBxn (60053)
• United States
21 Jan 10
That is true, but you don't go back and blame everything on those previous things either. Look forward not back. Would that I could live more like that myself - but at least I'm not out thinking everyone is trying to get me for something I might've done - or might not have done either!
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (57189)
• India
21 Jan 10
I agree. God is not out to get us. He might take what seems like ages to pull us out of problems, but eventually he does, and just like he can punish inconsolably, he can also reward extraordinarily so that all the pain is wiped out. We just have to be patient and trust him, and correct ourselves. Bad things happen, but to everybody. Nobody is chosen. Our faith, our patience, and our spiritual growth, as well as intellectual growth is tested and put on more firm footing at such times. I dont agree that god continues to be punitive once we realize our mistakes. He has better things to do with his time.
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (57189)
• India
20 Jan 10
Hi ElicBxn, I think nobody can punish us as much as we can punish ourselves, because we are our best advocates and best prosecution lawyers, knowing the ins and outs as honestly as we do. I think we all make mistakes, and we learn. If we repent, then others should forgive because it is the conscience that is taking over. Periodically, the conscience will keep on nudging, oh! so didnt you do that at that age... and so on. But those who dont repent can be avoided. I dont think we as human beings can punish some wrong in exact measure. I know in some cases god has been rather cruel, and therefore, I leave both rewards and punishments in god's hands, and stick strictly to business. :) I also think that when conscience takes over the person becomes extra ordinarily nice. So thereafter, neither us, nor god needs to punish the person.
@GardenGerty (90229)
• Marion, Kansas
20 Jan 10
Vandana your first sentence is really the truth. You are very wise about this.
1 person likes this
@ElicBxn (60053)
• United States
21 Jan 10
I'm with GardenGerty here - this is a very wise statement you have made
• United States
20 Jan 10
I look at my life as i am in charge of it and anything i do is of my own doing. Even if the things ive done in the past were a mistake i have no one to blame but me because i made the choices. If someone around me is encouraging me to do wrong it is me to decide how to handle things. When people seem to be pushy i tend to stay away from those people espeically if i dont agree with thier views on things. I do have people in my life that think everyone is against them or out to get them. It is so hard to live with negative people like that. I try to use reverse physcology on these types of negative people but most the time it dont work. If someone thinks the world is out to get them , theres not much you can do to change their minds. I see these types of people as constantly living an unhappy life. Life is to short to live like that.
2 people like this
@ElicBxn (60053)
• United States
21 Jan 10
I totally agree - and that if you can't do something, you find a way around the problem - and if there is no way, then you live with it, but don't go complaining or bemoaning about it all the time.
1 person likes this
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
20 Jan 10
I don't think that everything that People do to me is punishment but I do believe in Karma. The what comes around goes around kind of thing. As far as people though, I feel like they do what they do because they choose to. I can't imagine that as a punishment. I don't know anyone personally that thinks that but I have met people that feel like everyone is out to get them and everything some says or does is directed at them.
2 people like this
@ElicBxn (60053)
• United States
21 Jan 10
see, I tried to say that the doc in question was doing something that was probably normal when he went to med school and isn't in practice any more 30 yrs later - but she goes and changes the subject
@gabs8513 (48803)
• United Kingdom
21 Jan 10
I used to be like that I always believed it was and it was my Fault, that I must be a terrible Person so I always blamed myself, it took me Years but I now know it was not my Fault at all
1 person likes this
@ElicBxn (60053)
• United States
21 Jan 10
I'm so glad you were able to get past that - I could almost unfriend this person because almost every discussion is "this thing happens, is it because I did this bad thing and should I give up this activity ALL TOGETHER?" WTF?
1 person likes this
@gabs8513 (48803)
• United Kingdom
21 Jan 10
Mine was due to the Abuse in my Marriage and also through my Childhood I was always made to believe it was my Fault, but I now know it wasn't and it isn't
1 person likes this
@mommyboo (13207)
• United States
21 Jan 10
Frustrating, isn't it? I have a very good friend who is always thinking she deserves bad things, or that she is being punished for mistakes she made - and a lot of it is due to abuse when she was younger and the fact that people in her family still blame her for things that have nothing to do with her. I've told her repeatedly that she ought to listen to only good things and let the rest go, but she seems unable to do that. I only listen to good things, if someone has crap to say, I let it go back where it belongs - in the crap pile.
1 person likes this
@cerebellum (3871)
• United States
21 Jan 10
Some people have said some things about me being handicapped like "What did you do that God is punishing you?" I don't feel that way. Sometimes I must admit I feel sorry for myself and feel I'm being punished, but not usually. For one thing although I have done some bad things and made some mistakes, I am a good person and haven't done anything to be punished for. My ex thought everyone was out to get him. He would take offense at the smallest thing and think it was punishment. He would get mad at me for not seeing it that way. He felt if I didn't agree with him, I wasn't on his side. It did get old real fast, and I got in the habit of just agreeing with him to save an argument.
1 person likes this
@ElicBxn (60053)
• United States
21 Jan 10
my roomie has an aunt who used to say "if you really believe God will give you back your vision" Annoyed the HELL out of her - she'd say "Back my vision - I never had it to START with!"
• United States
21 Jan 10
I have always thought God was supposed to be loving. Why would a loving being make someone suffer with blindness or physical or mental problems. There are a lot of babies that are born with problems and they haven't had a chance to be bad, so they aren't being punished. It makes no sense to me to think that God is the cause of it, or the cure. I believe in God and think He could do whatever he wants, but it seems He's busy elsewhere.
1 person likes this
@jesssp (2743)
• Canada
21 Jan 10
I think a lot of people are just not willing to accept blame or responsibility for anything bad that happens to them, around them, or because of them. It's never their fault. They have to deflect the blame on someone or something and in this case your friend seems unwilling to accept that these things might have been within her control so she's blaming them on some kind of nonsensical idea of cosmic punishment, rather than seeing what she did wrong, accepting it and taking it as a learning experience. I have known a lot of people who like to play the blame game and I just cannot keep people like that in my life. They're the type of person who will kill a relationship or lose a job because of things THEY are doing but when it all comes crashing down they come up with an endless list of things the other person/people did wrong. Then they go on feeling like they're the one scorned and telling their woe as me tale to anyone who will listen. Well, that kind of got away from me a little! Please excuse the rant, lol.
1 person likes this
• Malaysia
21 Jan 10
hi elic i have situations that maybe u can help me to define (most recent to old..) -) i am a events sales manager my achivement depends on my performance , i broke a bone on my leg and had to go tru operation, my whole month sales (closed deals) were zerorised and given away ~ previously when the other collegue went for similar medical leave, i was to assist without him loosing his closed deal -) one morning, after ensuring all arrangements were made for a successful event the previous day, i had to come in late due to some personal situations, problem happened when someone did not see me there in the morning n commeted to my boss~he knows i wont be around as i seeked appeoval~ he called me in n told me to go find another job if i cant commit - 2 days later. my collegue had bigger event then mine and his car broke down ~ nothing happened, when he came in words of sympathy were heard -) i had a dinner event, was lesser than 100 people all arranements were made at 6, i left seeing everything n order so that i can rush for a urgent prayer ...at 7 i received a call asking where i was, when i said i was performing prayer ~ he asked me what was SOP for events = well 2 days earlier there was no SOP when my collegue who had a 400 person dinner n had to attend a wedding as long as everthing is in order there r many more such incident over the 10 years i hv been here i cant complain, as at times like this ~ i need this job to pay all those overheads - my husband promised me another year ~ hope it is as fast as 2009 was // i am still on medical leave, i feel like just giving my letter n say FO ~ they have called me many times when i will be back, there ws a message "see u in office on monday" even when they know i will be back only on 29 well there is another chapter to my life, in laws who did not allow me to marry my lover for 16 years, we put our foot forwards n got married 3 years back n "a manager" who is a "maid" whenever i visit their home next chapter ~ spent my money on IVF to get baby, failed twice - money lost, still paying my credit card for this .. but no baby yet life is not fair at times, i am not paranoid - it happens but as i believe in karma, i have to accept all situations as a lesson for my "past life" sins, i just pray n pray that god give me the strength to carry on i thank god everyday for he has given me good parents, good husband, roof on my head and food on my table - my life is better than most cheers
1 person likes this
• Malaysia
21 Jan 10
elic.. u mean all those "written" laws which r kept in vaults - i don believe them at this point of time, i am not going to risk anything as i cant afford any disappointments, i just need 2 things at the moment - CA$H n PEACE - i need to go tru this one year and save money to open up my own "restaurant"as i said~ i just pray to GOD for the STRENGTH to overcome any situations~ by next year this time i hope that this chapter of my life is history it is not only to me, have u seen a man crying sincerly crying to his wife~ i did~ after 21 years in the police forces as an officer and getting all the sh@@ in life~ my 46 year old husband put his head on my lap hugged me and cried for he was finally promoted, (all his juniors was promoted before him) ...believe me i don say it because he is my husband, he is a very capable person
1 person likes this
@Lakota12 (42794)
• United States
20 Jan 10
yup I have a neice like this. SOme times she is so down about things that I have to pull her up and get her out of that funk. SHe also talks to to many phyics
1 person likes this
@ElicBxn (60053)
• United States
21 Jan 10
I think that might be part of her problem, talking to physics, but does she go blaming what someone does years later on something that she made a mistake on before?
@Lakota12 (42794)
• United States
21 Jan 10
Yes for she does and the problem really was with hubby beating her and putting her in the hospital. She had no choise but to leave him. the kids stayed with him but she also sent money to help raise them helped pay off the house he has. and after taking care of her dad for 3 years he had cancer and waas in bed all that time. She set her kids up with a trust fund they didntget till they were 25 2 got it and waas a great deal of money that they spent like there waqs to be more. the thrid boy got killed a week before he was to get his. that was 3 years ago she has a lawyer that is fighting to get her part but I think her hubby and daughter already got it and spent it!. SHe has reason to blame them as they are always down on her and talking about her said she never gave them anything and I do know thats a lie for her and her daughter had lived with us for awhile.
2 people like this
@dawnald (84132)
• Shingle Springs, California
26 Jan 10
I saw one discussion like that. But I have never felt like people were punishing me for bad things that I had done previously (well mostly not). But sometimes they really are after you for something you said or did. Sometimes you don't even know what it was...
1 person likes this
@ElicBxn (60053)
• United States
28 Jan 10
some times they are, but to blame everything on something that happened 30 yrs ago - well, that's a bit extreme!
@paula27661 (15900)
• Australia
22 Jan 10
I find people with that kind of attitude paranoid martyrs or something! I am not judging anyone let alone your friend because I don’t know her and she may have her own valid reasons for her line of thinking but I generally find that attitude a tad annoying! I believe in Karma and what goes around comes around but having said that, it doesn’t mean that all bad things that happen to us are our own doing, some things are just meant to be and at other times incidents we considered negative can turn out to blessings in disguise down the track.
1 person likes this
@ElicBxn (60053)
• United States
22 Jan 10
I think I mostly agree with that, things we think are negative turn into blessings.
1 person likes this
@mommyboo (13207)
• United States
21 Jan 10
Um... yes I know some people like this. I cannot understand this mindset AT ALL. People have huge self esteem problems, lack of confidence, and give their power away regularly to other people who hurt them and keep doing it! WHY?? I actually heard something really despicable lately - it was one of those religious icon people trying to blame the people of Haiti for the disaster and earthquake, saying something about how they deserved it! You know what, disasters, earthquakes, floods, hurricanes just HAPPEN. I do not see ANY natural disaster as any type of punishment for anybody's past behavior, for immorality, or 'because somebody's God is angry'. If you want to believe that, fine, but I don't appreciate anybody who believes that trying to impress that belief on others. I think it is hogwash, complete bs, and it scares people who are just enough left of center that they don't see the deception and paranoia in something like that. As far as people who REALLY ARE out to get you? I try to get them before they have their way with anybody else, including me. I don't put up with that bs, if it's obvious to more than one person that someone is gunning for me, they'll get it in the end
1 person likes this
• United States
21 Jan 10
god yes..i know a couple who over analyze every single thing you say or do for deep inner meaning.you fart on the wrong pitch,you're implying something.you must be. they finally started accusing me of everything you can imagine when i tried to help them and then disappeared,convinced i did them wrong. they gained some real enemies doing this stuff,and i'm sure that's my fault somehow too. but you know what? my life is peaceful now without people always complaining to me about them.so they can stay whereever they're at.i'm sure eventually they'll turn on each other,i can see it coming.
1 person likes this
@ElicBxn (60053)
• United States
21 Jan 10
you can see so far!!! I do know what you mean, as soon as they lose all the "outside" enemies, they will start eating each other...
1 person likes this
• United States
20 Jan 10
Personally I believe that because we live in such a self-centered world, that in some form or fashion everyone is out to get "someone". I would love to "get" the man who molested my daughter and got away with it! Or how about pay back the idiot who lied to beat us out of a promotion. We are taught in today's society to "do whatever you have to do" in order to get on top. Success is measured by economic status and job titles. Backstabbing, lying and manipulating is part of who humans have become. Sad but true.... It is no longer measured by our integrity and willingness to help others. On the contrary, those characteristics are now perceived as being "weak". I'm just keeping it real here...
1 person likes this
@ElicBxn (60053)
• United States
21 Jan 10
I would agree that many people seem to be that way - but this isn't what I'm talking about This person comes across blaming things on some things she made mistakes doing 30 YEARS ago. I can't get into too much detail without almost naming her - but a doc did something to her to ruin her ability to do something now - perhaps it would've been something that should've been sued for malpractice then - but more than likely, that's just the way things were done when that doc went to med school. Now its not an accepted medical thing - like leaches - they are coming back in to medical usage ya know, but the very IDEA of leaches in the 1960's would've probably gotten you thrown out of the medical field.
@dragon54u (31298)
• United States
20 Jan 10
I do not think certain people are out to get me but I do believe that immoral things I have done come back to bite him. I have had it happen. Bad things happen to me and I can immediately connect them to something I have done in the past. Good things happen, too, and I believe it's because of good I have done. I strongly believe in karma or whatever you choose to call it. Perhaps your friend has done things in the past that make her paranoid. She needs to find some peace by accepting that she did bad things, was a bad person and has to pay for that while striving to be a better person than she was.
1 person likes this
@ElicBxn (60053)
• United States
21 Jan 10
I don't believe in Karma, but I do believe that you can forgive yourself and not go considering everything that happens as punishment for some mistake you might've made 30 years ago.
@BarBaraPrz (17348)
• St. Catharines, Ontario
20 Jan 10
What's that old paranoic's saying? Something along the lines of, Just because you can't prove they're out to get you doesn't mean they're not... I jokingly say that having Juanita for a friend is my penance... and it may very well be, but I don't really believe it deep down on a paranoic level. I take everything with a grain of salt. (It's a wonder my blood pressure isn't higher...)
1 person likes this
@ElicBxn (60053)
• United States
21 Jan 10
Sometimes they are, and sometimes you just need to grow up and let what was done in the past stay there! That kind of grain of salt actually makes the blood pressure go down!
1 person likes this
@hawwisu (63)
• Nigeria
20 Jan 10
if you hav done anything wrong before, we can say is a mistake and if you repeated same thing again is foolishness. never mind her and she is saying OK.
1 person likes this
@ElicBxn (60053)
• United States
21 Jan 10
kind of along the likes of "fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me." the idea of learning from mistakes is to avoid repeating those same mistakes - some people just take a lot longer to learn - and having to have tragic consequences to maybe stop them from doing the mistake any more.