Taking action on illegal immigration
By speakeasy
@speakeasy (4171)
United States
April 21, 2010 2:19pm CST
That is what Arizona is doing right now.
A bill recently passed both the AZ State House and AZ State Senate by very large margins - it is currently going to the Governor for signing and if the Governor decides to veto it the House and Senate do have the votes needed to overturn her veto.
This bill does the following things:
1) It makes it a state crime for immigrants not to carry authorization papers (visa, passport, drivers license, etc).
2) It requires police to check the immigration status ("when practicable") of any person they reasonably suspect of being in the country illegally.
3) It allows people to sue cities and counties if people feel this law is not being enforced.
Why is Arizona coming down so "hard" on illegal immigration? Over the last few years, Arizona has seen the drug violence from Mexico coming across the border and resulting in kidnappings, home breakins, and murders in Arizona. When followed up and arrests are made the number of illegal immigrants perpetrators is overwhelming.
Arizona has also had several police officers murdered when making routine trafic stops - in this case every perpetrator was either here illegally or was transporting illegal immigrants. Arizona has the most arrests for illegal border crossings and drug trafficing across the border. Arizona citizens who live near the border have been killed and had their property damaged or destroyed by illegal crossers.
This problem with illegal immigration has been costing individual citizens and the taxpayers millions of dollars each and every year. Arizona's budget deficit is massive and putting this law in place and enforcing would cost less than allowing the current situation to continue.
Also, the Hispanic community did nothing to try to defeat this bill in either branch of the AZ government. Perhaps, they are also fed up with the problems being caused by illegal immigrants?
This is not just an Arizona problem. 82% of Tea Party supporters say that illegal immigration is a "very serious problem"; but, Obama wants to give illegal immigrants a "path to citizenship". Maybe it is time for the rest of the states to wake up and follow in Arizona's footsteps.
2 people like this
7 responses
@TTCCWW (579)
• United States
22 Apr 10
Wow, what a great idea but this reminds me of something, that's right I remember, 1938 Germany. The guys name was Hitler and he only started with the political dissidents, then it was the homosexuals, then it was the Jews, then it was everyone who could not prove who they were.
I am like 10th generation American (even have a little native american in there some where) but if someone really wanted to see me as hispanic I suppose I do have dark hair and eyes.
And lets not forget that we are going to allow the most undertrained police force in the world use their better judgement, nothing could go wrong there.
I am not even sure that I can prove I am American because I have the same birth certificate as Obama.
1 person likes this
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
23 Apr 10
"I am not even sure that I can prove I am American because I have the same birth certificate as Obama." - Do you have a valid state drivers license and do you speak English? These are 2 major indicators that you are not in the US illegally.
"most undertrained police force" that is an insult. The majority of Arizona police officers have college degrees and all of them have to go throught special training - this is not the "Wild West" where you hand out a badge to any drifter passing through! Nor, is it a 3rd world nation where many of the police buy their office and/or have not even completed K-12.
For someone who thinks they know their history; you should learn about modern facts too!
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
24 Apr 10
Quick question - who ever told you that your phone calls are private? Recent fact - every twitter ever tweeted is recorded in the US Library of Congress and they will continue to be recorded.
Tweets are sent over "cell phones". If a tweet is being recorded, why do you think that someone out there is not recording every phone call, every text message, etc.?
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
21 Apr 10
When I first heard about this bill i was a supporter of the idea. Seemd good,make it a state crime to be in Arizona illegally. Illegal immigration is a major problem not only for the countrty at large, but arguably more so for border states in themselves with a greater direct impact. Who wouldn't favor another method stemming it.
Then I began to look at the details of it. The enforcement mechanism in it is troubling to me. To me it seems there is far to much lattitude. It looks more along the lines of the border patrol checkpoints I sometime rant about, the ones in the middle of our states, no where near a border, that stop citizens in their every day commutes and do a "citizenship check". It seems almost too orwellian. I'm not sure sure I like the way this was done. I aghree with the premise and the need for a law the state can enforce,but this is going to far in infringing civil liberties of american citizens to do so. If this were my state, after seeing the details, I think I might be fighting against it and demanding it be re-written.
1 person likes this
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
23 Apr 10
But, it is not a crime to be in Arizona illegally. It is only a crime not to be carrying documentation that you are there legally. Also, they will not be stopping everyone - only people that the police have reason to suspect that the person may not be there legally and if they do have documentation - visas, passports, green cards, US drivers licenses, etc. they will be thanked for their time and sent on their way.
This law was very carefully written to stand up to the challenges it expects will occur.
@xfahctor (14118)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
23 Apr 10
I said "in arizona illegaly" because it doesn't apply outside the state of arizona, I guess what I should have said was "in the state of arizona as an illegal immigrant" perhaps.
"only people that the police have reason to suspect that the person may not be there legally and if they do have documentation - visas, passports, green cards, US drivers licenses, etc. they will be thanked for their time and sent on their way."
There are a number of problems with this. First, I disagree the law is well written, i think it gives far too much lattitude. It wold be one thing to do it when arresting a person, or even on a traffic stop.
Then there is the whole 4th amendment issue, this is pretty insurmountable in itself. I am not willing to trade of constitutional principals for a sense of security, the very idea is loathsome to me. Nor am I willing to let lawyers disect,stretch, extrapolate and convolude the meaning of the constitution to try and justify it...unconstitutional is unconstitutional
Then we have the fact that in a free republic such as our's, one simply does not have to be stopped and questioned, even if they will be thanked and sent along their way. We operate under the presumption of innocence, we live in a country where we do not have to prove we have nothing to hide to anyone, we live in a country where we do not even have to justify exercising that right.
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
24 Apr 10
Well, if you honestly think that we are going to have roving police units going door to door searching for these people; you think we have a lot bigger budget than we really do have. Our police (state, county, and local) have minimal funding and are understaffed.
They will only be asking for ID while doing their regular duties or when someone files an official complaint about an employer or a house with ridiculously large number of occupants that are constantly changing.
"We operate under the presumption of innocence"; may I remind you that if they stop your car for having a headlight out and they see a "suspicious package" on the seat they do have the right to ask to see what is in the package and if you deny them; they then have "probable cause" to seach your vehicle. This also applies to your home and a lot of other things.
Without "probable cause" the police could never arrest anyone because they have not been "found guilty" and if you cannot arrest them you can never take someone to court to be "found guilty".
So, they are only going to spot these people while performing their regular duties; and then, they must have "probable cause" to suspect that they may be here illegally and to ask to see their ID (unless they already asked for it for the traffic stop or whatever).
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
23 Apr 10
Also, a "path to citizenship" is not fair to other people who are waiting their turn and applying to immigrate here legally. It is rewarding people for breaking the law and in the past we have granted amnesty to illegal immigrants and all it did was increase the number of illegal immigrants that rushed to come here. Let them go back to their countries and apply to come here legally like any other applicant.
@laglen (19759)
• United States
21 Apr 10
Count me in! But my state wont. But possibly this November after we have a new Governor, maybe....
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
23 Apr 10
Let your candidate know how you feel about this subject and point this law out to him/her as an example.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
22 Apr 10
I have some BIG concerns about this bill and I sure HOPE nobody ever decides to try to do something like it in my state.
"1) It makes it a state crime for immigrants not to carry authorization papers (visa, passport, drivers license, etc)."
How many American citizens whom a cop thinks "looks suspicious" will be harassed?
"2) It requires police to check the immigration status ("when practicable") of any person they reasonably suspect of being in the country illegally."
"Reasonably suspect" for what reason? Will people be pulled over for "driving while tan"? Will an accent now be just cause for being detained? How many actual CRIMINALS will get away with their crimes while the police are wasting their time on this?
"3) It allows people to sue cities and counties if people feel this law is not being enforced."
This is definitely a "conservative bill"; I thought the right was against frivolous lawsuits!
Annie
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
23 Apr 10
1) Arizona has a large number of legal citizens who are Hispanic and a lot of our police are Hispanic. They are not going to to be harrassing people just for being Hispanic.
2) "Reasonable suspect" would include things like speaking little to no English, trying to avoid police for routine traffic stops (speeding,headlight out, etc), and 30 people living in a 3 bedroom home. And, if they have paperwork they will still be thanked for their time and cooperation.
3) "against frivolous lawsuits" this does not encourage frivolous lawsuits. I encourages the local cities and counties to enforce this law preventing local city/county governments from deciding to ignore enforcing the law thereby creating "santuary cities/counties". Sanctuary cities/counties have sprung up in other places where the local goverment simply fails to enforce existing laws. This disregard undermines existing laws and is part of what has led to illegal immigration being such a problem in our country today.
@bestboy19 (5478)
• United States
21 Apr 10
I'm glad Arizona wants to do something about illegal immigration, but what makes them think this is going to solve the problem? As long as there are people and businesses willing to hire illegals, the illegals will continue to come in. We know those hiring illegals are doing so to get cheap labor. If Arizona really wants to put a stop to illegal immigration, those hiring should be required to pay illegals the same salary any true citizen would get. Now you could say, "They'll just move their business out of the country," but there are many jobs that can't be moved. If you take the cheap labor away from them, they might just decide hiring a real American is better than hiring a illegal.
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
24 Apr 10
If you take away their business license it really hurts the business owner because they are closed for business during that time and if you take away their right to ever have a business license in the entire state they will never hire any illegals in this state ever again. That is a major loss of income even if they do decide to sell out and move to another more lenient state.
"forcing employers to pay the illegals what they would have to pay any American whom they would hire." - If you do that then you have just given the illegals more incentive to cross the border illegally - higher wages mean more money to send home to bribe officials and coyotes to bring in more illegal friends and family! Besides, most illegal workers in Arizona are already earning the same salaries as their legal coworkers.
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
23 Apr 10
Arizona already has a law that fines people who knowingly hire illegal immigrants and suspends or prohibits them from getting a license to do business in the state of Arizona for repeat offenders.
One of the big things about this law is that it gives Arizona citizens the right to sue governments for failing to enforce this law. Individual cities and counties cannot look the other way and get away with it.
@bestboy19 (5478)
• United States
23 Apr 10
It's good that Arizona already has a law that fines people for hiring illegals, but I wasn't talking about fining. I'm talking about forcing employers to pay the illegals what they would have to pay any American whom they would hire. If you're going to have to pay the same salary whether legal or illegal, I would think the employer would hire the legal. If they're going to hire the legal, there's no work for the illegal. If it's a combination of a fine and a salary increase, even better. The idea is to make hiring an illegal unattractive and costly.
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
21 Apr 10
With the Federal Government turning a blind eye to the problem the states have to do something. One of the problems AZ is facing is that the fence stopped and is funneling the traffic through their state. It is interesting that the Hispanic community did not try to stop this bill. Are they fed up with illegal immigration too?
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
23 Apr 10
Many of those who are here legally are fed up with illegal immigration.
The illegals are starting to be afraid to speak up and risk being deported and many had already gone to other places that had more opportunity or even returned home.
With the recent police killings and other violent crimes in our state that have been directly attributed to illegal immigrants, many Hispanic citizens are just as upset and want something done themselves because they and their families are just as much at risk as the non Hispanics.
