What would you do if you were in my situation...
By Ladyslipper
@Ladyslipper (1327)
Philippines
June 12, 2010 5:35am CST
I have one staff who has been with our company for almost two years now. He is 32 years old with a wife and son. Before he was transferred under my Supervision I already know he has an attitude problem I need to deal with. Usually all problematic staffs are being transferred to me. I don't really know why. Maybe it's because I'm good in handling people and I always bring out the best in them. A lot of my staffs have been promoted already and they know that I have my ways in disciplining our employees and I also don't tolerate anyone even if they are nice to me in person. I'm not the type who asks favors from my subordinates and that's the reason I don't think twice in letting them go or giving them penalties for offenses and company violation they commit.
This staff before he was transferred to me is in very good terms with his previous Supervisor. He sometimes let the Supervisor borrow his car. He even drives for him. He was even the one who helped the other Supervisor find a new apartment. He does other stuffs for his previous Supervisor. Some of the employees are already complaining as to why this staff is still working in our company because he has an Attendance and Tardiness issue and when he is at work instead of 7.5 hours work time he only works for 3 or 4 hours. Most of the time he is sleeping. Some employees are complaining but some don't and just end up doing what that staff is doing. When asked why they did it they would usually say I'm not the only one doing it and they would point out that staff.
When he was transferred to me I set expectations to him. The first month was fine. The second month he was absent for 1 week. He said he was sick. He provided a medical certificate showing he has Otitis Externa and was advised to rest for 5 days by Doctor. The next week he was absent again for three days. He said it was due to family emergency. He need to go home to another town because his wife had a fight with his father in- law and he needs to be there. I then served him a Notice To Explain and gave him a Verbal Warning as a penalty for Attendance.
The next week I got an Escalation from our Workforce Management and Manager saying that he was gone for 6 hours. When I talked to him he said he slept because he feels so sleepy. I told him he is not paid to come to work to sleep. He should be taking calls because he is a Customer Service Representative. I served another NTE and issued him a Written Warning for what happened. After that incident he no longer logs out to sleep but he is always logged out everyday for at least 2 hours because he needs to visit the clinic for his BP, to get a medicine and to rest as advised because of his heath condition.
Last two weeks ago I received an email from him while I was in my workstation. He is asking permission to sleep for 1 hour because he feels so sleepy. I told him no and if he wants what he can do is to sleep during his 1 hour lunch break. He can just take her lunch by using his 45 minutes personal break. What he wants to do is to have additional 1 hour free time for sleeping aside from the 1 hour and 45 minutes privilege that he has. I said No. He did not log out.
About three days ago I was monitoring all my staffs call for quality purposes. While I was listening to his call I was shocked when I heard him snoring. He did not even put his customer on hold or mute to sleep. The customer can hear him snoring. It happened twice. Both the customers just ended up hanging up because he never came back to them. I talked to him about it and he gave me an excuse again that he feels sleepy.
After our conversation the next day while I was monitoring their calls again I caught him for the third time sleeping while engaged on a call with the customer. He told the customer he will just check some information and then he slept and the customer can hear him snoring. The customer hang up again. It was such a shame considering that he was projecting as the company's representative. I can no longer tolerate him and it seems like he is not taking me seriously. What I did was I scheduled an Administrative Hearing for him and endorsed him for Termination. All the three calls I listened to were recorded. So the employees status now is for termination. I feel bad about what I had to do because he is a family man. I have kids and I know that he needs to work to support his family. I had doubts if I made the right decision. However, just today he was absent again. According to him he has ear infection again.
This made me decide to push through with the Administrative Hearing. He knows about it and I think he is confident that I don't have the heart to Terminate him so he is not taking the hearing seriously. I'm one of the Supervisor's who have least attrition in our company. It means I never believe in terminating an agent. I terminate an agent but only when it already came to the point that even when I'm at home the employee never gives me a peace of mind and causes me to have insomnia. So my decision which is also our Manager's decision is to dismiss the staff. What do you think? Would you do the same?
3 people like this
11 responses
@urbandekay (18278)
•
13 Jun 10
I would suggest he is either suffering from depression or narcolepsy
all the best urban
2 people like this
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
15 Jun 10
Possibly so. In that case, he should get treatment and communicate with his boss. Some companies will even pay for certain treatments if they will help a good employee. His falling asleep on the job is bad for business. It is not fair for him to collect a decent wage for sleeping while others work hard for their money. If he is a valuable employee then maybe a leave of absence while he seeks help would be fairer than firing him.
@Ladyslipper (1327)
• Philippines
17 Jun 10
Honestly, I don't think it's worth keeping him. My take on this is that he does not suffer from any of the two. He is just a person with a lot of excuses and who has an attitude problem. I just realized it after our Admin Hearing. Why did I say this? He is not the only one doing this in our company. There's a couple of them. Three of them were put under my Supervision. Others were scattered under different Supervisors. Funny thing is that they are friends with each other and started under just one Supervisor. He has been with the company for almost two years now. He has been doing this for two years already. So if he is suffering from depression I must say that's a very long time depression already.
When the other employees (his buddies) learned that he was endorsed for Admin Hearing they straightened out. The two other employees who are his close friends who used to have a lot of absences and tardiness and used to leave the production floor never had any absences and late for this whole month. Another miraculous thing that happened is that they always ask for permission each time they leave their workstation now. It's just too bad I need to make an example and he is the not so lucky one. Now I think those employees will see that they should take their job seriously and that their time will be up soon if they will not change and play fair.
@bamrahkirti (1821)
• India
12 Jun 10
I think you need to discuss with him in detail if he is going through any illness which prompts him to sleep.Because i have not heard anybody who is feeling sleepy all the time.Is he working in night shifts too?You must talk to him and know the real reason.
@Ladyslipper (1327)
• Philippines
21 Jun 10
I have already asked him why he is always sleepy. His usual answer is that he is tired and he did not get enough sleep. He works in night shift and all of us has the same shift. I always feel sleepy too because I'm currently 7 months pregnant but I don't sleep during working hours. Everyone in the office feels sleepy all the time but unlike him they don't leave the production floor during work hours to go to the sleeping room and sleep there almost the entire shift. Most of the time he will just be back minutes before end of his shift.
When I started monitoring his whereabouts and he can no longer leave the production floor to sleep that's when he started sleeping in his workstation. He would put the customers on hold and then would sleep and just wait for the customer to hang up. He has a problem with time management. He has 1 hour and 45 minutes break which he can use to rest and sleep and that's what the other staffs are doing. However, in his situation he believes that aside from the 1 hour and 45 minutes break he should still have at least an hour extra to be used for sleeping. I don't think it's fair specially to the other employees. I already decided to dismiss him and that's after learning also that he had a case with his previous Department which is also company violation.
@commanderxo (1494)
• Canada
12 Jun 10
Absolutely! Terminate this staffer immediately.
A company's image MUST always be maintained to the highest degree possible, else it WILL lose business, revenue, and trust from its many valued customers.
The staffer in question obviously has several SERIOUS personal issues to resolve, and needs time to sort things out.
...also...
Since you are the kind of person that ALSO has seems to have conflicting emotional issues to resolve...in that you understand how difficult it is to have a family to support and yet be without a job...then perhaps you might suggest keeping this staffer employed only on a, part-time basis. THREE warnings is more than enough for cause to terminate.
If you still feel that this person CAN do a good job, then only hire them back once they have sorted out their personal problems...and ONLY then, not before.
You'll be doing yourself, the company, and him, a big favor.
Don't be afraid to "show some backbone". Set the example.
After all, YOU are the boss, not your employees.
cdrxo
@Ladyslipper (1327)
• Philippines
20 Jun 10
I totally agree with you. We're done with the Administrative Hearing and just waiting for the deliberation. However, there's already a decision. Management together with HR's decision is dismissal. The decision will be served this coming Thursday. Thanks a lot for your response!
@scheng1 (24650)
• Singapore
12 Jun 10
Hi Ladyslipper, what is his reason for falling asleep so frequently?
I think there is a medical condition that makes a person falling asleep even when they dont want to.
I think it is better to let him go for a medical checkup to determine the case, can put him on no-pay leave or medical leave, depend on the assessment of medical professionals.
Another reason is the moonlighting problem. if that is the case, can give him an ultimatum, to quit the night work or resign from day work.
His former supervisor may know the real reason.
2 people like this
@Ladyslipper (1327)
• Philippines
17 Jun 10
Hi Scheng,
Thanks for the response. I did talk to him about it and asked him why he is always sleepy at work. The reason I got is that he is sometimes taking care of his son and then he has some family problems he needs to deal with causing him to have lack of sleep. He also told me that they are moving out to a new house and are busy transferring all their stuffs little by little everyday from the old to the new house so he is always tired of the travel.
I already told him that those reasons are not excuse. I'm actually pregnant and then have an 8 month old son. I sometimes lack sleep as in just an hour sleep but never slept at work even once because I know it's unprofessional and that it is a company violation.
We had an Administrative Hearing awhile ago and he talked to me after. He is asking for another chance and said he will take his job seriously now. However, the company's decision is final and it's dismissal.
@KMaroon (266)
• India
12 Jun 10
Hi Ladyslipper
After reading all the story I feel that he is suffering from some disease for which he has to go to the doctor for a check up and I don't think he feels responsible for his family or he is interested to work in the company. If you think he is having a family and he will suffer without a job then just change him to another department from the one he is working because the company may get a bad name because of him. I don't think you have done any mistake because you have given him several warnings it is his duty to think if he looses the job he and his family has to suffer. I don't think he deserves for the mercy you are showing on him, You have to give him one month's time to search another job just terminate him because I feel he is a very irresponsible person.
1 person likes this
@Ladyslipper (1327)
• Philippines
21 Jun 10
I can no longer transfer him to another Department. I learned from our HR that he already has a case before with his previous Department and he was able to get away with it. They decided to just transfer him to our Department. He has been working with the company for almost 5 years already. Almost 2 years with our Department. I already made my final decision and it would really be dismissal. I hope it will make him realize he has to be more responsible. It's just sad that at the age of 30+ with a family of his own he has to learn the lesson in a hard way.
@Ladyslipper (1327)
• Philippines
17 Jun 10
I agree with you on this one and I just had it proven during our Admin Hearing which made me decide to agree with the dismissal. First is he always gets away with his Attendance issue. I was the very first one who gave him an Attendance Infraction for being absent. He never got any type of Infraction with his previous Supervisors. He has a lot of reason for his absences. He is always absent for 1 week every month and he has a pattern. He will be absent after his two days Rest Day or Off. So let's say if he has a Saturday and Sunday rest day for last week and then Monday - Tuesday rest day next week he will be absent on Wednesday sometimes even until Thursday. He has a lot of reasons. The first time he was absent for 1 week under my Supervision his reason was that he has a flu. The next month he was absent for 1 week due to toothache. A month again after that he was absent for 1 week due to ear infection. Two weeks after he had a sore eyes and was absent again for a week.
I actually talked to him about the absences and told him I'm concern since it seems like he is getting a lot of sickness causing him to be absent always. His answer was that he just really has bad luck. Aside from those health issues he is also sometimes using the reason that his son has a fever, he got stranded and then there was even one time that his whole family had a car accident. There are other various reasons for the Absences and Late and I'm sick and tired of it.
What really made me decide more that he is not worth keeping is that he is always absent and then when he is at work he is still not productive since it's either he is over- break or missing. If he is available he is either putting the customers on hold for like eternity until they hung up and I even have this feeling that he is intentionally disconnecting calls. I asked him about it but he denied. He is always denying everything. Why do I have this feeling that he is disconnecting calls? It's because whenever I am monitoring him after about a few seconds the customer just suddenly disappears on the line after he has introduced his self. It does not just happen once, twice or three times a day. It happens to almost more than half of his call. All of these made me decide that he is not worth to be kept. I just feel sorry for his son and hoped he has a more responsible father. I have an 8 month old son and I know it's going to be hard if he will lose his job. I feel for the son and not for him.
@dorypanda (1601)
•
12 Jun 10
Perhaps this person has 'sleep apnoea', it's a recognised medical condition, which means the person will fall asleep on the spot, no matter what they're doing. Maybe you should get this person to speak to a doctor about it.
Other than that, his attitude doesn't seem particularly good anyway, I think I'd find out why he behaves that way, if there's a good reason, I'd try and help him, if there's no good reason for it, then I'd sack him.
@Ladyslipper (1327)
• Philippines
20 Jun 10
I would understand if he has sleep disorder or narcolepsy. However, that is not the reason. It has something to do with the attitude. Two days ago he sent me an email while I was busy doing a report. He would want to ask permission to be given at least 20 minutes additional break because according to him he is suffering from LBM. He said the remaining 15 minutes break will not be enough for him to go to the comfort room and do the thing.
I told him to use his 15 minutes break and if it will not be enough that's the time I'll give him an additional 20 minutes. So he went out the production floor. I told my Manager what happened. She then told me that if I want to see if he is really telling the truth and is going to the comfort room then I can check it out by waiting for him outside the door. What I did was I went out with our Manager and we pretended to be having our coffee break. I saw him in the smoking area which in no way looks like he is suffering from LBM.
When he saw me I asked him if he is already done going to the comfort room. He then told me no need because he thinks he is already fine. So he consumed his 15 minutes break for smoking and I did not give him any additional 20 minutes break.
@sid556 (30960)
• United States
13 Jun 10
You are doing the right thing, Ladyslipper. You really are. Sleeping on the job? No one ever paid me to sleep on any job! If he has some sort of condition that causes him to be sleepy that's really too bad but not your problem. Truthfully this guy just sounds lazy and spoiled. Taking time off to deal with an argument between his wife and her father is a family emergency??? Sorry but that just is not normal. It may be normal for him but most people just don't do that. Ok so you feel bad about the fact that he is a family guy and his family depends on his income. Sounds to me that you seem more concerned for his family than he does. I'm a single mom and I go into work no matter what. I haven't had a day off in over 16 yrs. and probably way longer than that. I really care about providing for my daughter. At one time it was 4 daughters. there are so so many people that are hurting and have families. They can't find work and they would give anything to have this guys job. The guy deserves to lose his job.
@urbandekay (18278)
•
14 Jun 10
But what if he is born that way, surely no one would choose to be lazy with all the social stigma it attracts!
all the best urban
@urbandekay (18278)
•
14 Jun 10
...that just is not normal.
Ah, so you do recognise a normative use of normal then, interesting cause many things can be said to not normal
all the best urban
@Hatley (163781)
• Garden Grove, California
13 Jun 10
HI I feel sorry for him and for you.He evidently has narcolepsy and needs to have medical attention and probably will need medication for it.but meantime you cannot just let him do as he was doing.Try to get him a medical leave and see if the doctors can help him so he can work without falling to sleep all the time. Really he is not b eing lazy he has an illness. I would go to the very top boss and get this man a medical leave with stipulation if he comes back he cannot sleep on the job or he will be fired immediately. I would see about his medical condition first then go from there.
@Ladyslipper (1327)
• Philippines
17 Jun 10
Hi Hatley,
Honestly, I don't think he has narcolepsy. He has been my agent for three months and I'd knew if he is suffering from narcolepsy. I knew that narcoleptic people can't control sleeping even if they are in the middle of an activity or talking to someone. I knew someone like that. This has been happening for almost two years now and everyday he is always at the clinic. So if this has been an ongoing issue already and he has Narcolepsy I am sure our company doctor would know. He is always in the clinic sleeping. He was diagnosed to have UTI and ear infection and referred to consult physician for those illnesses but was never diagnosed to be narcoleptic. Besides he never gave that as a reason. What he usually do whenever he is on a call is he sleeps intentionally. Narcoleptic people don't sleep intentionally. They just fell asleep without them knowing it. However, in his case usually what he would do is he would ask permission to go to the nap room because he feels sleepy. If he is not allowed to do so he would still leave the workplace and go to the nap room to sleep. I think he ran out of luck because if he was able to escape with his previous Supervisors before well, he was not able to escape me. He was not aware that I'm a type of Supervisor who always do the rounds and checks out my employee to see how they are doing. So if he is not is his station I would think he is on break. What I usually do is I would ask our Workforce Management if he is on break and that's when they would see that he is done already with his break and is missing for two, three or even 6 hours already.
He uses going to the clinic to get a paracetamol, strepsils, etc. to skip work. Sometimes he would approach me and ask permission to go out and go to clinic because he needs to get a medicine for colds, sore throat, cough etc. I would tell him to use a portion of his 1 hour and 45 minutes to get the medicine instead of asking for another 10 minutes in addition to the break just to go to the clinic. He would usually answer he already used up all of his breaks. It is very annoying. He always does that and he usually do this when we have a lot of calls waiting to be answered.
What makes me upset more is that I see other employees not even resting, looking very exhausted already and even extending hours just to answer all the calls of our customers to help them and then here's this one person (and there's a couple more of them in our company- they are one big group/ buddies) who always gets away and never do his share to help the team just because he needs to go to the clinic everyday. It's unfair for those who are doing their job right but just getting the same wage and benefits he gets.
@allknowing (130073)
• India
13 Jun 10
If you have any fixed rules on how to handle sick people, you could apply that rule here. Obviously he is a sick man and the fact that he was allowed to handle clients despite knowing that he was found snoring reflects badly on your Company's policy. Being charitable is one thing but certainly not at the cost of business. At your individual level may be you can help him. But the sooner you release him the better.
@allknowing (130073)
• India
13 Jun 10
If you have any fixed rules on how to handle sick people, you could apply that rule here. Obviously he is a sick man and the fact that he was allowed to handle clients despite knowing that he was found snoring reflects badly on your Company's policy. Being charitable is one thing but certainly not at the cost of business. At your individual level may be you can help him. But the sooner you release him the better.
@allknowing (130073)
• India
18 Jun 10
Seven days will just fly off. You waited so long and another 7 days won't matter. You have no other alternative it seems Laldyslipper.
@Ladyslipper (1327)
• Philippines
18 Jun 10
We have that kind of rule. He can file for a prolonged leave and then once he is certified by the Doctor as fit to work and resume duty he can go back. The problem is he does not want to have a prolonged leave. What he is doing is that from time to time he would be on a prolonged Sick Leave every month for at least 1 - 2 weeks due to different reason. Sometimes the reason would be toothache, tooth extraction, flu, UTI, ear infection, sore eyes, etc.
Sometimes his reason would be family or personal emergency like they got a car accident, stranded, wife had a fight with in- law, son is sick, had a fight with wife, etc. I'm getting tired of his reasons. However, I prefer it when he is not at work because even if he is at work he is of no help. It's either he is sleeping or in the clinic advised to rest because he is not feeling well or has a sore throat he can't take a call. All in all I will say he is not worth keeping and as days pass I'm convinced more and more that it's better to just dismiss him. We are just waiting for the deliberation. It will take 7 days. It means we still have to wait for 7 days before he can be separated from the company.
@Ladyslipper (1327)
• Philippines
21 Jun 10
You're right. It's just 1 more day and he will be dismissed already. I really have no choice. With those 7 days given him I still tried to observe if I'll be able to see any improvements. However, I did not see any improvement at all. Add to that the fact that I learned from our HR he has a case with his previous Department and that's the reason he was transferred to our Department. Now it seems to me that a lot of chances were already given to him however, he still has not changed. Now I'm decided that my decision is just right.
