Science will discover God before Religion does.
By bird123
@bird123 (10632)
United States
August 18, 2012 12:24am CST
Why Bird, hasn't religion already discovered God?? Have they really??? All religion has is a set of beliefs. Though some of religion's beliefs are true, many are not. All beliefs will never be always true yet, religion wants you to equate beliefs with facts. If you really care for the truth, you could never do that.
Let's take a few steps back and see why science will discover God first. Really look at this world. God places knowledge all around us. God leaves it up to us to discover it all. Does religion search for knowledge and truth? No, they think they already know it all. How can they when there is so much left to learn??
Science starts with beliefs yet marches forward to discover the truth. Religion starts with beliefs then goes no further. Everyone is human and makes mistakes. Science corrects for mistakes. Does religion??No. Religion claims to never be wrong.
Hunger for the facts instead of beliefs will lead science, in time, to discover God. They are going to have a much better view of God than religion paints. Of course, even science has a very long time before this will happen.
As mankind grows in knowledge, they will begin to see that facts and truth are the only way to really discover. Religion will become obsolete. All the Mumbo Jumbo will just not be enough. Truth always comes to the top. Though it will take some time, it will happen in this case as well.
4 people like this
18 responses
@Naseem00 (1996)
• Pakistan
26 Aug 12
Let me start by saying that being a Muslim I believe my religion has introduced God to me before anything else has done. Science is a sign among the signs of God and if goes hand in hand with my religion. Science means to discover through learning and to learn through discoveries. The information that science provide us changes with time and as our knowledge increases. Many science theories have been proven wrong with passage of time and this will keep on happening as our knowledge increases. How can one think Science will discover God before religion does. Mu religion has already introduced God to me. It is now up to us (including myself) to discover and accept Him as my God.
I totally agree with the last two sentences you have written. Truth always come to the top. Though it will take some time, it will happen in this case as well..
Well said.
1 person likes this
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
27 Aug 12
You are on the right track. Religion has supplied the belief of God. Instead of relying on those beliefs told by mankind, you must discover God and what God is really like for yourself. This pulls you toward God and a higher level than mankind can provide through any religion.
Even science starts with a belief. One must not value beliefs. One must search for truth instead. Finally, science corrects the errors. Religion does not. That is their biggest mistake. They allow their Egos to tell them they have all the answers. When one thinks one has all the answers, one discovers very little.
@urbandekay (18278)
•
19 Aug 12
You have a fundamental understanding about the nature of science, what it can and cannot do and what it cannot hope to learn
"Let's take a few steps back and see why science will discover God first. Really look at this world. God places knowledge all around us."
Hilarious category error; like knowledge is a lump of stuff waiting to be found
"Does religion search for knowledge and truth? No, they think they already know it all." Untrue
"Religion starts with beliefs then goes no further." Again untrue
"Religion will become obsolete." You claim
all the best urban
1 person likes this
@urbandekay (18278)
•
19 Aug 12
I mean a fundamental misunderstanding
all the best urban
1 person likes this
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
19 Aug 12
Knowledge is a lump of stuff waiting to be found. It stares us all in the face. How long did mankind watch birds fly before mankind figured out how??? Do people look at the world the same as in caveman days??? Learning allows one to see more. It allows the next door to be seen so it can be opened. Open your Eyes and really see. One can take leaps or one can sit around and fight the process. That choice belongs to us all. Which will you choose??
@urbandekay (18278)
•
20 Aug 12
Exactly! Man figured out how, he did not find the answer laying around.
Learning indeed allows greater sight, as Newton said, I see further because I stand on the shoulders of giants. Despising, as you do, that which is written, you can learn only what you manage in your brief life and those standing on countless shoulders see not the few feet you manage but miles and miles
all the best urban
1 person likes this
@6precious102 (4043)
• United States
18 Aug 12
http://evidencebible.com/witnessingtool/scientificfactsintheBible.shtml
http://evidencebible.com/witnessingtool/scienceconfirmsthebible.shtml
http://www.clarifyingchristianity.com/b_proof.shtml
http://www.kingjamesbibleonline.org/Scientific-Proof-of-Bible.php
http://carm.org/scientific-accuracies-in-the-bible
http://www.godandscience.org/
http://www.newtestamentchurch.org/html/Christian_Evidence/Science_in_the_Bible.htm
http://www.6000years.org/frame.php?page=home
http://www.bible.ca/b-science-evidences.htm
Science has been a wonderful tool, not only for proving the reality of God, but also for proving that the Bible is God's written Word.
@gjabaigar (2200)
• Philippines
19 Aug 12
Most Chinese don't believe that there is a God and don't have or believe on any religions but mostly believe and trust their Chinese Horoscopes. They also believe on a mythical beast as their own god and salvation, the dragon (which is the symbol of their emperor).
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
19 Aug 12
Interesting gjabaigar. Seems beliefs can be a vulnerability if one is not careful. China isn't really a free society. I wonder how much influence the state has on it's people. Of course, the Chinese and dragons have been going back as far as anyone remembers. A great story goes a long way. The more it is repeated; the more real it becomes to people. That is the point where people assume the belief is a fact. The longer it has been told; the more powerful it is.
Of course,God wants all His children to be able to Reason and Think for themselves. If one questions enough then searches for truth, one will see these stories for what they are.
China has come a long way by opening their economy toward freedom. They are discovering the benefits of that. Maybe one day they will realize they have nothing to lose and everything to gain by being totally open and free.
A country that will be totally open in truth and in all their ways will rise to the top. God will use them to teach the world the right direction. It's all about Intelligence not control. Intelligence will win in the end. That will be the country where everyone will want to live.
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
19 Aug 12
Just like with horoscopes, people will find a way to make it fit.People twist and twist until they convince themselves of the story. Can you really say God created everything 6000 years ago? How much do you ignore in order to get your beliefs to fit?
When you discover God for yourself, you will see. The Real God is at a much higher level than the picture religion paints. God is not a monster as religion teaches. Mankind's creation comes from their view, lacking true understanding. This allow all those petty things mankind holds so dear into the creation. Mankind will learn their way out. Religion as we know it today will become obsolete when mankind sees it for what it really is. God will lead us all step by step through our education. Those who are stubborn will take longer. Those who hunger to know and discover will advance much quicker. As with everything in life,the choices are ours to make. As for me, I will be in that quicker bunch. I find new discoveries interesting and exciting. I do not fear it like some.
@vandana7 (99137)
• India
18 Aug 12
One of your best discussions bird 
..I really dont know why you dont have blue star..
You have stated so simply that science looks for truth which is what religion wants us to do in the first place!!! But the foundation of the religion is faith which is an unconfirmed truth. :)
What is wrong with confirming that truth? Nothing.
..I really dont know why you dont have blue star..
You have stated so simply that science looks for truth which is what religion wants us to do in the first place!!! But the foundation of the religion is faith which is an unconfirmed truth. :)
What is wrong with confirming that truth? Nothing. 1 person likes this
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
18 Aug 12
Religion depends on beliefs. When they convince people to value beliefs above all else, they selfishly lead people in the wrong direction. Just as you say, we must place truth first. That is where God will truly be at. Thanks Vandy for all those kind words about my discussion.
2 people like this
@Kashidanga1971 (1354)
• Bangladesh
18 Aug 12
Life's reality is that its science that helps us fight to survive and religion enjoys the credits without doing any work.
1 person likes this
@taheraa (1545)
• Giza, Egypt
14 Sep 12
Again bird:
" Science will discover God before Religion does ".
I represent your words that what he says "Who created first chicken-or-egg", as well as clear to me that you are far from Reading in the books of a religion, then you really know nothing about, and justify not know about them as man-made??.Are you not read about the world of medicine who embraced Islam when newly discovered something in medicine, then found that the Koran had talked about more than 1400 years.Religions be the basis of all science, and therefore preceded.
The science that comes these discoveries make us more belief in what came of these religions
Clear to me you've got stiff resistance even to try to read in religious books, and I advise you to read them before judging them and lack of fairness.
My best regards
@taheraa (1545)
• Giza, Egypt
15 Sep 12
"You find something in your holy book that you can make fit that it foretells a future event, then you not only proclaim your holy book comes from God".
I will give you the answer from your words !!
Is it really reasonable to be making so many blind assumptions??!!
Possible to make the word agree or fit with another word or phrase with other words, but it is impossible to say the exact description of the Koran to the process of the formation of the fetus in the mother campus, which has been proven by modern science.
This is what makes me tell you that you are trying to make your words compatible with what you think, and do not try to tire yourself a little to the real search for truth that is absent from you.
And also you said:
"Finally,why hasn't God made sure everyone had a copy of that rule book if He was going to hold everyone accountable?".
It is a choice that we have dedicated God, if He willed to create those rules within us without sending it to us.
If God wants by His will to make us all good guys, but we created to look for the truth and realize it with our minds.
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
15 Sep 12
Do you really think people had no fetus knowledge in the time your holy book was written? I bet the medical men of that time ran into about everything, including fetuses.
As for giving everyone a holy book, you miss my point. If God is going to hold people accountable to the rules in any book then God must guaranty everyone has a copy or there is no true justice.
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
15 Sep 12
Just like in horoscopes, people will find a way to make their holy book fit because they want to believe so badly. As for stiff resistance for reading holy books, you are making judgment calls blindly. On the other hand, when a holy book uses threats and intimidation constantly in the first few books, clearly it is a waste of time for one who could never value such petty things.
Religion does not Understand God, however they think they know it all. This prevents discovery. Science, on the other hand is open to discover truth and they will correct their errors. Have you ever seen religion correct their errors or even search for truth about God?
You find something in your holy book that you can make fit that it foretells a future event, then you not only proclaim your holy book comes from God but that every word comes from God. Is it really reasonable to be making so many blind assumptions?? I think not. Finally,why hasn't God made sure everyone had a copy of that rule book if He was going to hold everyone accountable? Where is the Justice? I see none.
If only you would value God and the discovery of God over your holy book, you could really see so much more.
@Christoph56 (1504)
• Canada
19 Aug 12
If either one does discover God at some point, then I agree, science would do it, not religion.
However, science has shown us over and over again, that God is not needed for anything. Originally, we saw earth as being flat, covered in a bowl. That's what it says in the bible. We used science, and we found that it wasn't that way, earth was a sphere. Ok, well, then they started saying that it might be a sphere, but it is the center of the universe, everything going around us, because we are the most important place... but then, they found that the only thing going around us, is the moon, and then we go around the sun, just like all the other planets.
These caused huge problems in the religious circles, because they showed that God was not needed for them.
Now we've found that the universe started from a big bang, and the religious say that just before that, was just God, and God started the big bang... but there are all sorts of scientific directions showing that it doesn't need a God for it to happen. There's a very good chance, that we'll find out exactly how it happened, and the religious will say, "Well that was caused by God", until we discover how that happened, etc etc...
If it ever does come to an end, there's a better chance that science will show that God is not necessary, rather then prove that God exists.
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
19 Aug 12
Science will always give people who rely solely on beliefs problems. No matter how badly one might want a belief to be true, the facts will show themselves in time. The fact that many scientists believe that God is not necessary is not relevant. Stick with the truth and what is and they will discover God. Yes, it's going to be a long road for there is much to discover. Step by step mankind will get there. Mankind will figure it all out. The universe was created so that everything could be discovered. As our intellect increases, God will become more visible to us all. The more we learn; the faster we will learn in the future. It's going to be Glorious. I can't wait for my next lesson.
@Graptopetalum (1807)
• Canada
21 Aug 12
Christoph, the only way to prove that God isn't necessary to have two universes, one with a God and one without and see which does better.
We don't actually know how the big bang happened. The universe expanded a lot very quickly after the big bang and then the expansion got a lot slower (but is still proceeding faster than it should be). Nobody knows why. There are a lot of other things science hasn't satisfactorily answered, like how life got started.
@camomile07 (1420)
• Germany
19 Aug 12
When human beings were created, we still didn't have the knowledges we have nowadays. At that time, it wasn't necessary. During several centuries, human got all knowledge and capacity to learn directly from God.
Actually, the religion is the symbol for ethics and morality, a guide for good behaviour. As at the beginning people believed, we still have to carry on believing, we believe that Good exists, that his son came here to earth, that the history told in the Bible is true.
Science already has done a good job and will not stop until almost everything is explained. The facts will help us to belief more!
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
22 Aug 12
Pinch yourself and wake up. OK. OK. Without 100 percent of the knowledge, beliefs are an important part. They patch the gap of the unknown. My point is that we should make knowledge, truth, and facts much more important than beliefs. That is the path to knowing true reality rather than merely something we want to be.
@Graptopetalum (1807)
• Canada
21 Aug 12
bird, you'll always need some faith that what you think is real isn't a dream or computer simulation or something.
@Graptopetalum (1807)
• Canada
21 Aug 12
bird, you seem to think that there's just one religion and it's all the same. It does change, new religions or new forms of old religions keep appearing and some dissapear. Anything that makes claims about morality and the paranormal are religions. You could argue that science is a religion, or at least it is for some people. There's a tendency for science to ignore evidence of the paranormal or to find ways to dismiss it. How often have you heard it said that no radio signals have been detected from extraterrestrial civilizations? This isn't true, the famous WOW signal seems to have been from an extraterrestrial intelligence and still hasn't been explained. How would science know there was a God and how to recognise him without religion? Also you need faith to accept evidence and some people will reject it or devise complicated arguments to avoid concluding that they've found God (like using the Bable fish, a creature so useful that it couldn't have evolved naturally, as evidence for the non-existance of God).
Then there are all those things in the Bible that sound a lot like things the writers shouldn't have known about: dinosaurs, atom bombs, 9/11 etc.
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
22 Aug 12
Yes, there are new religions being formed, however they are using the same format of valuing beliefs and gaining followers. Someone truly coming from God will want people to be able to stand on their own two feet and think for themselves.
How will you know God?? It's the same everywhere. I know you from your words and actions. Study God's actions all around you until you reach enough understanding to be able to grasp His words. If you really work at this, you will see the door when you are ready. By grasp His words, I'm not taking about books.
OK, let's really think for a moment. A really advanced civilization is not using radio waves for communications. Those civilizations, like us, that are using them are so far apart and the power output so weak that it's no wonder no one finds anything. God placed civilizations on different planets so far apart for good reason. By the time they figure out how to span the distance, they are smart enough not to make a mess when they arrive. Understand now why that flying saucer hasn't landed in the middle of town? They are too smart to do something that foolish.
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
23 Aug 12
Yes, there are varying degrees of religion. Yes,there are brainwashing factories in the world. Religion, regardless of the degree, wants you to value beliefs. They want to gain followers and control your thinking. I'm afraid most people have not advanced beyond the point of wanting to control others. On the other hand, there are many in the world who have. They struggle to teach the others.
Granted, science uses beliefs to point the direction of their investigation. This judgment call call lead them away from knowledge. On the other hand, when you have a missing piece in your puzzle, you might ignore that section for a while but you will return one day to make the picture whole.
@Graptopetalum (1807)
• Canada
22 Aug 12
bird, I suppose you could strip anything down to its basics and say that the entire group is the same. I'm not even sure what you mean "same format of valuing beliefs and gaining followers." Some simply apeal to reason and point to evidence to support their views. Some use brainwashing. Is this really the same format?
I don't understand what you mean about how you will know God. You've basically just pulled your own religion out of somewhere.
You've totally missing my point about the Wow signal. I was using it as an example of how science ignores the paranormal.
@mythociate (21437)
• Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
8 Oct 12
I am the truth.
Wait a minute for that to sink in ... that the truth isn't something you see or something you hear or smell, taste or feel. It is a person---you, your child, your parent, your lover, your sibling, your friend. And just like you can't do much more than know of a person (i.e. maybe 'where they've been' & 'what they've done,' but not 'what powers them, what makes them tick'), just-so you-can't know the entire truth but -can only know of it.
That's why I tell my Christian friends that they can't just walk up to someone out of the blue and say, "Howdy! Did I tell ya `bout Jesus today? 
" No, Christians are to live their lives well and -to tell people about Jesus WHEN the people ask us WHY/HOW we live our lives so well! 
" No, Christians are to live their lives well and -to tell people about Jesus WHEN the people ask us WHY/HOW we live our lives so well! @bird123 (10632)
• United States
8 Oct 12
Yes, Actions have always been a much better teacher. People will be drawn to our Unconditional Love and Kindness simply because deep down they know it's God's way as well. Yes, when they ask, tell them how you came to learn that there is only one way to live. Give everyone you meet Unconditional Love and Kindness. Help those you can and encourage those you can't. When people do this, they speak for God regardless of any religious beliefs they might have.
@mantis36 (4219)
• Philippines
21 Aug 12
You are absolutely right, and i think they already found God, as Science call it Gravity, and Steven Hawkings said that gravity is the reason why there is life on this universe.
Gravity, a force, like a burning bush that appears to Moses on the summit.
A gravity that holds and maintain all bodies in the universe.
@Graptopetalum (1807)
• Canada
22 Aug 12
mantis, nobody understands gravity. We know what it does but we can't figure out why or how. It seems to move things without any expenditure of energy. I know people say that objects that are higher up have more potential energy but that's rather a cludge. Things don't start glowing when they over a certain amount of potential energy. How does potential energy apply when there's more than one significant source of gravity in play, say for an object located so a slight nudge could send it falling towards the Sun, Earth or Moon? Perhaps there's an answer to that but I don't know what it is.
I don't think gravity is God because it basically just behaves in a simple way, attracting things towards each other depending on their masses and the distance between them. There's no evidence that gravity can punish people for immoral behaviour or talk to people or anything.
@MANJET (84)
• Malaysia
23 Sep 12
Science had not discovered god and I doubt it will one day. I am in no means trying to say that there is no god. However, the reasons and the so called religious people so far had not really proved anything beside emphasizing about the prophecies. I sure hope that there is some convincing fact out there to prove something. at least we would not pray blindly for something we had not seen.
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
24 Sep 12
As science uncovers all the secrets of this physical universe, they will be led to the Spiritual. Even on their current path to learning everything about this physical universe, they have been exposed to the spiritual realm. It's just a matter of time. On the other hand, It's going to be a very long time before mankind gets there. There is a lot to learn. Religion, however doesn't even march forward. How much discovery can one really do if they never look? Not much.
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
27 Aug 12
In time, science will be lead into the spiritual simple because they are together. The perfect example of this is any person. They are a spiritual being in a physical body. The connection is in the brain. See, there are places where science can discover much. There will also come a time when mankind will evolve beyond the physical body. Granted, there is lots of time before mankind gets there. What I am saying is that science is using a method by which they will arrive over time. Religion is not.
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
28 Aug 12
If you think religion really knows God, then you don't know God. On the other hand, every religion does carry pieces of understanding. Religions would have a better chance of knowing God if they all got together and compared notes. Wouldn't that be interesting or maybe it would be another world war.
I don't believe in religions but I do believe in people. The greatest uniting force for the realization of God is people. You see, deep down, we all know God. If you got rid of all the religions, that would never go away.
Granted, religious people might have a greater realization of God now but it's all in beliefs and faith rather than facts. Science may stay behind for a long while, however they will reach a point where they will make religion obsolete. When they discover God as fact, all the beliefs will go out the door. When it happens, it will happen fairly quickly. On the other hand, mankind and science have a long way to go. Given enough time, even baby steps will get you there. Science does, at least, walk forward. Religion does not.
@adhyz82 (36249)
• Indonesia
25 Aug 12
i think God had informed by Religion and His Holy book the first than the knowledge and science..
i don`t think about The Bibble.
But in Al Quran, there are many signs that God inform us about the knowledge..maybe our brain is limited for learning about the content of Holy Alquran
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
25 Aug 12
Even though No holy book was written by God, God has a hand in all of them. One must also realize that mankind has a large part in all holy books as well. See and Understand that which comes from God can be a challenge. One should always have other sources to discover God than holy books. Perhaps, when one sees God elsewhere then one can go back and see God in that holy book. I have found that most everything that says to love unconditionally comes from God.
God works on multiple levels with multiple views. It is true one must stretch to keep up. It also can take several weeks or more to fully understand everything that was said. Of course, you are right. How much just went completely over our heads and we never Got. Still, baby steps will get us there.
@LetranKnight25 (33121)
• Philippines
15 Sep 12
Religion was meant to guide us to be a better person, while science was meant to help get better solutions to our worlds problems. 
@starsailover (7829)
• Mexico
19 Aug 12
Hi bird: I agree with most of your statements but I don't think "Science will discover God" simply because most of the scientists are atheists and apart from that, the majority of scientists recognize that God is not a subject that could be studied with science. On the other hand, you are right when you say that religions take their beliefs as facts so you can't discuss about them while science can get a better approximation to the truth because a real scientist can't take knowledge for granted and they always have to judge what they think it's truth.
ALVARO
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
19 Aug 12
It doesn't matter whether scientists are atheists or not. The science of the universe is God's handy work. Understand, there are connections between the spiritual and physical. We are a perfect example of this. In the distant future, mankind should evolve beyond the need of physical bodies. At this intellectual level, you will know God by then. Science does not search for God. however that is Who they will stumble upon simply because they are headed in that direction. Religion will maintain their status until such point mankind out grows them. There comes a point when people will need more than beliefs and stories. I reached that point as I enter adulthood. There are many there already. Just read some of the comments here on my lot alone. For many people,only the real truth will do.
@Lastbrother (171)
• United States
18 Aug 12
I agree! However, it's hard to define this God. How do we know when we discover God? Will it be living? How were we created? It's all these questions that pop up in our question. Searching for God leads to more questions and wondering than necessary. If we discover God, we'll still have more unanswered questions than before searching for God.
@bird123 (10632)
• United States
19 Aug 12
God is actually Someone. We are spiritual beings just like God. In a way, we are all the same. You will know God at the very least through communications at a higher level. You are right about one thing. There is so much knowledge out there that the questions never end. Next by step our understanding grows into more complex questions. There is great great intelligence waiting to be acquired right in front of us. We must always Hunger to Know and never fear to question. Keep your eyes open. God's actions are all around. The more you see and understand;the more you can see and your understanding of God increases. This leads to more open doors and new ideas that will lead you to God. Intelligence leads to God.
