When is a fetus a human life? Catholic Church lawyers say ONLY at birth!!
@thegreatdebater (7316)
United States
January 25, 2013 9:16pm CST
In a lawsuit in Colorado, the Catholic Church argued that it wasn't liable for the death of twin fetuses because their mother died in their hospital while the hospital was waiting on a doctor that never showed up. According to the defense lawyers for the church, who runs the hospital, "counsel for the hospital said that under Colorado law, a fetus is not a person and that the twins likely would not have survived even with an emergency C-section." Now this women was at 28 weeks, which is further along than many premature babies, and many have went on to live normal lives. The Bishops have vowed to investigate this case, but their lawyers have been very successfully fight this case throughout the court system. While the Pro-Life movement is holding a huge rally in Washington saying that a fetus is a human life at conception, their lawyers are claiming the exact opposite. Is this hypocrisy?
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/01/25/us-colorado-fetuses-idUSBRE90O08O20130125
2 people like this
11 responses
@jenny1015 (13366)
• Philippines
26 Jan 13
Lawyers do find ways on how to twist the truth sometimes, huh? If fetuses were not of human form, then how do they suppose to categorize them? duh!
1 person likes this
@sierras236 (2739)
• United States
26 Jan 13
Yet, the irony is that the pro-choice crowd does not want to recognize them as humans. Because if they did, the fetus would have certain rights such as the right to live.
This is a pro-choice law designed so that they wouldn't be classified as humans but simply as a fetus with no rights whatsoever.
@thegreatdebater (7316)
• United States
27 Jan 13
Sierras, Where does it state in the constitution that you have the right to LIVE?
Yet, the Catholic Church used this law to protect their wallet, thus justifying the law.
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
28 Jan 13
HOWEVER,
The Fifth Amendment to the Constitution provides that "life, liberty, and property" may not be taken away without due process, and that is enforceable law.
@sierras236 (2739)
• United States
26 Jan 13
Nope, because the law had already stated as such. Yep, all of those pro-life choice laws are biting back. Lawyers do what lawyers do. They go by the law. They protect their employers in any way possible.
Ouch, it hurts doesn't it, when the law decides your views are right but two tiny lives paid for that view with their own lives.
It is debatable on whether they would have lived or not. They were never given the chance to do so. But the Colorado law is very clear. It states that the fetus was not a person. So, the Catholic Church that operates under the Colorado State law is probably going to continue succeeding in the defense of the lawsuit. Their religious views having nothing to do with the fact that they did not violate the law as set by the State of Colorado.
Perhaps, the real irony is the outrage at the Catholic Church for a pro-choice law.
Should the missing doctor be investigated? Absolutely. It should absolutely be investigated as to what when wrong and where it went wrong.
1 person likes this
@thegreatdebater (7316)
• United States
27 Jan 13
Sierras, it doesn't hurt me at all. As a matter of fact it helps my Pro-Choice defense when the Catholic Church admits that a fetus is NOT a human life. This is a huge kick in the teeth to the pro-life movement, and proves to everyone that the only thing that matters to the church is MONEY!!!
1 person likes this
@sierras236 (2739)
• United States
4 Feb 13
No, it proves that the State refuses to recognize that the fetus is alive. As such, two babies that could have possibly been saved. You claimed that they should have been left to have the chance at life. Yet, you criticize the church for following the laws of the State. It actually hurts your argument. If the church with all of its morals is not breaking the State's law, then any baby that does have a chance but isn't given it for whatever reason is legal and all lawsuits should be thrown out. So in your eyes and that of the State, the fetus is not alive and not a human being and does not have any rights whatsoever. In fact according to you and the State, the fetus is just a foreign object in a woman's body that is granted the permission to be born or completely denied the chance to become a human life.
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
3 Feb 13
Actually, it is the state that says the fetus is not alive, yet at the same time it would prosecute a doctor for allowing it to 'die' by his negligence.
Lawyers debater, lawyers...using the state's hypocrisy against them.
Want to talk about all the money Planned Parenthood makes off of abortions? MONEY MONEY MONEY, follow the money. 
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
26 Jan 13
Lawyers argue the law debater. The law is what it is, even if the Catholic church disagrees with law.
As for whether the twins would have survived, only a doctor who studied the case could make a full analysis of the situation. My friend gave birth to twins at 26 weeks with both children weighing just over a pound. She was lucky and they are both alive and over a year old now, but chances of survival are still low in that situation so the doctor could be right.
@thegreatdebater (7316)
• United States
29 Jan 13
Taskr, the lawyers work for the church. If the church doesn't want to support the law, it can just tell the lawyers to stop fighting this case using this defense. I am sure the church doesn't support this law, but their use of it justifies it even more now. We all know this is all about money, and the church, who was 100% liable in this case is refusing to take responsibility for it's actions.
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
27 Jan 13
Is it hypocrisy? YEP
Now what? People don't seem to mind hypocrisy in Obama or in other progressive liberals. But they sure don't like it in the opposition. 
@thegreatdebater (7316)
• United States
29 Jan 13
Deb, I am not a fan of the hypocrisy in politics, but I enjoy pointing out how people, like yourself, only want to see the hypocrisy of others (like Obama, but ignoring Bush). It is one thing to point out the hypocrisy of those that you oppose, it is another to point out the hypocrisy of those that you support.
1 person likes this
@thegreatdebater (7316)
• United States
11 Feb 13
Deb, yet you continue to attack Obama when his policies are the same as Bush. Did you attack the Patriot Act when it was announced? But, when Obama uses what is in the Patriot Act to defend the country you are shocked.
@thegreatdebater (7316)
• United States
29 Jan 13
Stary, actually it is. By using this defense, the church is supporting a law that they don't support as an entity. Does the Catholic Church support the belief that human life ONLY starts at birth?
1 person likes this
@thegreatdebater (7316)
• United States
29 Jan 13
Stary, the church is legally correct in using this defense, but it isn't MORALLY correct in using it. In this case you have a church that preaches life begins at conception, but is using lawyers to claim that it doesn't. So, which one do they believe? Money makes strange bedfellows!!!
1 person likes this
@stary1 (6612)
• United States
29 Jan 13
thegreatdebater
I say you are wrong...and yes it is my understanding the Catholic Church does NOT support the belief that life begins at birth..the church believes it begins at conception...
The attornies on the other hand argued the law..according to the letter of the law, life begins at birth therefore the accusation did not met all the requirements to find guilt... you might not like this technicality and neither do I, but it is what it is...I don't like when a known criminal gets off because some cop forgot to read them their rights...but it happens...
@Sparta72s (60)
• United States
26 Jan 13
I think a fetus is human life and we shouldn't want to do something to a fetus because it would've happen to anyone. What kind of a church has these kind of lawyers. Hypocrisies has been going on for a long time. Not much has changed. Abort the damn lawyers. There should be a law aborting anyone who aborts there child.
@thegreatdebater (7316)
• United States
29 Jan 13
The problem with your theory is that if you consider a fetus a human life, and you have a miscarriage than would it be murder? The issue I have with this is that many pregnancies end in miscarriage, which can have nothing to do with the mother. Are you then going to charge these people with MURDER? It is a human life, and if we have learned anything from the crazy second amendment people it is that once you go down that "slippery slope" there is NO going back.
1 person likes this
@thegreatdebater (7316)
• United States
4 Feb 13
Rollo, some miscarriages are caused by the mothers own actions. Some are caused by abuse, or accidents. In the past some were caused by doctors who prescribed medication.
Using your logic, we should investigate EVERY miscarriage, because a HUMAN life has ended, and there must be a reason for this.
Good luck with that one!!!!
@Professor2010 (20162)
• India
26 Jan 13
Thanks for this discussion and the link
I think a fetus is a human life from the time of conception, here in my country killing a baby in the womb in any way and abortion is treated as illegal..
@stary1 (6612)
• United States
11 Feb 13
thegreatdebater
The lawyers argued Colorado law..not church teaching..Yes it's a bit 'sneaky' but hey attornies do this all day long for their clients..
Anti catholic and pro'choice people are using this for their criticism and it's kind of understanable...
The church will continue to teach/believe life begins at conception...
@toxic_lifestyle (1213)
• Philippines
26 Jan 13
It's correct that fetus is not a person yet. But I believed that it has already a life ever since it was formed and came into existence inside the womb of the mother. :)
@Angelpink (4035)
• Philippines
26 Jan 13
Oh my what kind of moral belief that they have ? I grow up in a christian community where it believes that when an ovum and sperm meets life is there , the human life is formed , then there is already a person existing inside a womb . This person have the right to life , have the right to live. Human life is sacred .
