Authors who make their own social or ethnic group look worse

@suspenseful (40192)
Canada
October 4, 2008 4:02pm CST
My husband uses Audible, and he downloaded this book by this modern western author who was supposed to be comparable to Louse L'Amour. Now I have been doing a bit of reading and one of the rules that they have now is that the bad guys have admirable qualities, like Hitler loved dogs, etc. That was never done in books of the 19th Century. So part of this book was about some people getting scalped and when I heard the description that white people scalped more than the Indians and it gave specific examples in great detail as when and who and when, I asked when was this book first written and my husband said a few years ago, and I said I thought so. And I did notice that in many of the modern books, there is the theme that if the villains are of a different ethnic group and they do a horrible crime, the onus is also to show the ethnic group of the majority also do it, and in those cases are much worse, especially if they are Caucasian. thereby making the crime done by the villains lessened in their effect. So now we have more movies about white neoNazis with blond hair, then movies or stories about Japanese trying to bring back the Japanese Empire of pre World War and World War II. Any comments on why is it necessary to make the crime not so good in novels by showing the same crime repeated by another ethnic group is worse?
1 person likes this
4 responses
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
5 Oct 08
DOnt see the reason. I have watched movies where it shows the white man doing the scalping more. and I would have to look up if this was true or not. I loved Louis L'Amour have all his books from my dada andI have passed them on to 2nd son for he is my reader in the family. THink it is wrong to change the whole picture of what was.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
6 Oct 08
I saw movies where both did, and I thought it was equally as wrong. i did not think that if the white man (who was really a bad guy and was trying to put blame of an attack on Indians) was more bad than the Indians who attacked a peaceful wagon train and killed everyone there. But some authors try to make that the one who started to scalping where much worse. After all, the Indians could have easily said no, and say that they would stick to burning their victims or whatever means they used to get rid of their enemies.
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
6 Oct 08
Yup could have BUt if you look into it It was the white man that really started every thing. Lots of evil men white ones wanted the Indians to attack wagon trains to kill settlers by means of getting there land and for the army to come in and take over . Well they go their way didnt they . The Indian then was put on reservations and always the worst looking land there was! Most can not even grow a garden!
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@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
6 Oct 08
I would have thought that there was more than enough land to share. Up here in Canada we have the opposite. They thought that the white people were going to trade furs and then get out, but it did not happen. So the Indians were given vast amounts of lands as reservations, enough to drive a whole herd of cattle, etc. It gets that they need more land then we do to survive. They also have free medical care, free University etc. And that makes them more co dependent. I actually think there were bad Indians and bad white man. But it all depends on what movies or books you watch or read. I read it from all sides. So in some it was the evil white man, and it others it was the evil ruthless Indian. I do not think that the Indians were pure innocents, nor do I think the white people were evil nasty people. I doubt that anyone taught the Aztecs to do human sacrifices. They were example of Indians who had gone bad.
@deebomb (15304)
• United States
4 Oct 08
I think it's a sign of the times. It's the same with movies. We as the public are more willing to accept things that are more bloody and gruesome than we use to. So much of what is available to read and see in movies and on TV is what the majority of the public is desiring to see and read. It seems that we are in love with the villains and bad people. It's what sells now days. It's the bottom line the almighty dollar.
@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
5 Oct 08
That is what i THINK. They want to make the villains all exciting and to do that they have to insult the good people and it is not that the good guy is smoking like crazy, or forgot his girl friend's birthday, they make him do a real bad crime, like maybe served time in jail for grand theft auto, just so we can root for the villain who grew up poor.
@deebomb (15304)
• United States
5 Oct 08
Just maybe these writers are writing out their fantasy and have to make the good guys look bad so they look good. Just occurred to me.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
6 Oct 08
Or I wonder if they are suffering from collective guilt, like the Germans who were not living in World War II did about Hitler and the Americans and Europeans who had nothing to do with the enslaving of the Blacks by the American South, or whatever bad thing was done in the past by their ethnic group, so they have to make themselves bad to overcome that feeling.
@Angelwriter (1954)
• United States
4 Oct 08
First, I'm leaving Hitler out of my response entirely. That being said, as far as your first point about bad guys having admirable qualities? Probably because people are very rarely black and white, all bad or all good. Even villains don't just go around evilly doing evil things evilly all the live long evil day. They have good characteristics - and heroes have some bad qualities and aren't chock full of nothing but sweetness and light. Not three dimensional characters, anyway. Each character just leans more towards one side of the spectrum, depending on whether they're heroes or villains. About the book, I couldn't say whether or not it's true or not. That period has never interested me, so my knowledge of it is pretty much at zilch. Are there Japanese trying to bring back pre World War II Japan? How does the ethnicity of the criminals have any effect on how bad the crime is?
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@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
5 Oct 08
Actually the ethnicity does not matter. It is just that instead of just showing that the bad guy loved his children and was a family man, like the mobsters in the Godfather series, there is a tendency of trying to make the bad guy better by showing the badness of the so called good guys when it has nothing to do with the plot. And it is not just one character or a few characters like that corrupt police chief in the Godfather, they tend to generalize when the story is supposed to be about certain individuals. So instead of writing a novel about l. Ming the Chinese Axe murderer, and having V. Olson the Swedish strangler and how they were brought to justice because they went to New York State and confused the police when they committed their murders in Upper New York State, the writer will have a psychiatrist when asked by the reporter about the incidence of Chinese Axe murderers, will then say "Well actually Chinese Axe murderers are rare, most axe murders are committed by ------ now in 1890s there was this woman Lizzie Borden, a spinster who ---and later on there was this, " That has nothing to do with the story, and it should not be in the plot. Actually I think the number of Japanese planning to restore the old Japanese empire are just the same as the number of Germans planning to restore the old Nazi empire: not enough to worry about.
@dragon54u (31633)
• United States
5 Oct 08
That's ridiculous. I liked it better when movies and books were black and white, the villains were evil to the core and the good guys were pure. That's pure escapism and we could use more of it now! Incidentally, it was the British who taught the Indians the technique of scalping so that they could prove they killed the American like the British told them to.
1 person likes this
@suspenseful (40192)
• Canada
6 Oct 08
I like the bad guys bad and the good guys good. Oh I do not mind maybe the good guy trying to quit a smoking habit or the bad guy having a baby girl he loves very much because well you want someone to show how evil the bad guy is - his daughter will suffer unless the bad guy repents or is killed and of course, his wife is moaning and wringing her hands about how evil her husband is, but that is about all. I did not know about the scalping business, but there are lots of things that were taught and were adapted and maybe the ones who adapted them made it part of their culture. It does not mean if it were a bad thing that we should just blame the originators especially if it was just to be temporary.