The Israelis are bombing the Palestinians....Will this Ever End?

Thank you for your response, and I fear quite the same.

It is sad for me to hear people discussing, hoping and praying for the fighting to end, but it never does. It appears there are no clear answers because compromise appears futile...

I do not understand how Religion gets brought into the mix, when people are being murdered.

But I have an issue with the idea of students being in harms way when trying to better their lives. I have an issue with innocent people being killed...much like what ended up happening in part with Iraq, Afghan, wherever else we were (*shakes head*). We are supposed to help "FREE" people and protect from persecution....I really cannot understand why there has been a response of neglect from America...

except...

I just never understood all of our treaties or agreements with Israel.... Principles are most important...not money.....

They didn't start out fighting over religion. They started out fighting over land, but I can't remember the full story.

I guess I couldn't understand why land would be so important or such an issue if these people all wanted to live there.

A community full of people who love the place they live? The land should look better cared for...

If it is animosity or the past that they cannot get over, then there is no hope. We had slavery in this country, and although things are not perfect, we live together and work for equality. (That's my aim anyway...). We cannot live in the past, because the future is not the same. It may hold similar issues, but if we cannot overcome yesterday's, tomorrow will be a disaster.

Reminds me of a quote....and I do not remember who said it....

"I don't know what World War 3 will be fought with, but World War 4 will be fought with sticks and stones"

We have such a short window...we are destroying our world and each other everyday, we as Humans need to band together and say...."ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!"

I truly appreciate your response. I have actually been out of town, but when I was watching CNN and MSNBC last night (and my other ears were paying attention to the news), I was highly disappointed that I heard little mention of what was going on. However, we could also be highly critical...

I understand how you want America to stay out of this, and I absolutely respect your position. I am unsure of the military tactics, considering negotiations are hard enough to decipher....

But... I do believe that regardless of what happens, eventually we will be involved. Israel is using American made F-16's to bomb another country, kind of like Georgia and the attacks on Russia using American weapons...(politics aside, our weapons seem to keep appearing in other countries and new conflicts...)

Like any disease, illness, or sickness....heck...even if you do not drink alcohol, you can be killed by a drunk driver....and become another alcohol statistic. The same principal applies here. Eventually, if there are people who kill people and have no regard for human life or truly believe in the ideology of liberty that they preach, then eventually they will kill non-killers. It is a problem for us, because any innocent person could be a potential victim.

We put away serial killers, when genocide was Hitler's goal, eventually even America was involved. And we ended it. On both sides, these people should understand what it is to be persecuted, and should be the activists against it...not enablers.....

I actually detest FOX, and I believe my bias showed through there...I appreciate your recognition of the sources....but I am a CNN watcher...lol...



***principle (not principal)

It's very good to see someone Jewish that doesn't think violence is the answer in the Middle East.:) I myself am a Mennonite Christian and am very against war.

Hi! Thanks for responding so thoughtfully and intelligently - I really appreciate it... I particularly enjoyed your drunk driving analogy - so true.

You also bring up another good point; our country continues to supply these barbarians with arms to carry out their most despicable crimes. Why? One word answer here - money. So we sell them the weapons, let them do their worst and then go in and shut them down, so to speak. My question is: what the hell is that?!?

It seems to me that war is a huge hypocrisy with no winners. It is a vicious circle fed by inhuman beings with little regard for anything let alone life. What's next? Iran...China...the neutral Canada (eh?)? We need to concentrate on our own failing economy and the problems we've created in our own land. I don't believe the U.S. should maintain the role of World Police - the world certainly doesn't want it and there are people over here who could use the billions wasted every day in battle.

Anyway, that's my two cents...take it or leave it. I could talk forever on this subject but there are flowers that need to be sniffed and sunshine that needs to be felt!

Murderistic, yeah - some of us hook nosed heebs are okay, huh?!?

Haha, I certainly didn't mean it that way. Most Muslims feel that violence is the answer in the Middle East as well.

LOL wow i'm getting myself into a word war here. Of course some of you are okay. Most of you are okay. I regard all people of the Abrahamic faith as my brothers and sisters in the Lord. I don't think that just because someone thinks that war is the only answer makes them a bad person... just misguided and unaware of the power of real peacebuilding.

No worries - it is not possible to offend me!

Anyway, let's just agree on one final thing then we can move on and poke at each other in all new and ridiculous ways... You worship the Lord in your way and I'll worship Him in His!! AHHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

I did not mean to "poke at" you in a ridiculous way. Sorry if I did. If you'd like to poke at me go ahead, I am not your judge.

No, no - not at all...I was only keeding. I like to make light of virtually every situation!

We're cool!

Jeffela~

I absolutely agree with your position on the hypocrisy of war. I love how you worded it, and I will not try to restate it.

About America being "World Police"...again, You Are Right! If they do not want us there, we go, when they want us there we do not....Africa and other countries that would appreciate our presence, never seem to receive it...

We must fix what is wrong with our land before we can even envision a way to help other people. That is the way everything works. If you cannot help yourself, you cannot help anyone. When we focus inward (and focus on improving not just purely for our sole benefit) the outside is altered for the best. It all starts with us...or it can all end with us....for better, or worse.

The money that is wasted, is sad. It is a reflection of our carelessness, and maybe our frivilocity....who knows...

The lives that have been lost, can never be returned.

We need to stop sending our weapons, our money, and our people to die for "Peace, Freedom" or whatever else it is.

It does not make sense. It is illogical. And it is wrong.

You have all been wonderful for this conversation! Thank you!

Murderistic~

I appreciate your presence here as well. I like that people from both sides of the issue can poke fun at each other to discuss such an important topic.

Isn't it weird how you can discover that maybe not all of one group truly believes a specific way? Yes, it may seem like there is an overwhelming majority doing one thing or another, but the issue is not with the Jewish people or the religions themselves. (Or the Muslims, or the Christians, etc.) It has to do with the people who are behind the actions (of which many who are pro-war...truly could not be of or as religious as they claim....)

I believe the Middle East Conflicts reach deep into the human psyche because it has been an everlasting problem. And the issue: People cannot get along.

If we could just figure out what we all have in common (not too hard, look at the earth beneath your feet (or your house, or apartment, townhome, don't be ridiculous!) you would see why we need to get along.....)

We cannot leave this earth (at least not yet, haven't heard of ships sending people to our "New Home") and regardless, if we cannot figure out how to make things work here, how can we do it anywhere else?

This is all we have....and together we need to see that and preserve it


Thanks for the awesome discussion!

Awe man...we're so COOL! I LOVE you guys, man!

Seriously though - this was probably the best discussion I've had thus far here. You'd be amazed at the low level of communication skill and general goofy topics and dopey statements (poorly written) I've read...then again, maybe you wouldn't be surprised at all, I'm just new here!

Hopefully I'll catch up with you guys in another post and we can do it all over again.

Cheers!

Jeffela, I'm glad I didn't offend you by my response, I certainly didn't mean to! It can be a bit hard to understand the tone of someone's comment with just words. But thank you guys for your kind responses and I'm so glad that we can all agree on the devastation of the violence in the Holy land. It deeply saddens me that anyone who fires on this land, whether it be Israeli or Palestinian, could even claim that they believe it is holy. If someone stole a Bible I had in my possession, would I blow them and the Bible up? It doesn't make sense. It obviously isn't about religion when both groups are so willing to destroy the land that they claim to be Gods (and isn't it funny that they all share the same God?).

I just listened to an interview with an Israeli defense official on Jim Lehrer and I really just don't get it. He said that Israel isn't trying to destroy Hammas, they're only trying to stop the rocket fires over the border. He also said that the rockets aren't being constructed in Gaza, they're being smuggled in. He also said that he truly believes that Hammas is very unpopular by the people of Gaza. Given these facts I don't understand why they decided to kill over 300 people and injure much more and not allow humanitarian aid to come in during a temporary ceasefire. It just seems to me that there must have been many other ways to go about doing this that didn't involve innocent civilians to be killed, injured, denied proper medical care, and force their own children to starve because they don't have any food...

I agree with your views. If they understand that it is not the people who are encouraging or asking for these attacks, I cannot fathom how they can justify the amount and people that they have killed.

They are basically saying, "I know it is not their fault, but we are going to kill them anyway." Tough luck. Disgusting and twisted.

The innocents. I know this world is not fair, but that is not enough of an explanation for me to just sit here and watch the devestation.

There are people who deserve and desire protection...

I do not want to place blame.

Honestly, I do not care.

I think it is horrific and disgusting what continues to happen. It is almost 2009 and yet people still think there is hope if entire countries keep attacking others?

Really?

But I agree....the media is biased...although many would like to believe we get the truth.....so much seems to be swept under the rug when they decide to refer to it...and never ask the right questions or address the vital information...

I guess that is my other concern.....

Thank you for your comments...

I should add that what Israel is doing in response to terrorist bombings has caused considerably less civilian death than your own country's attack on Iraq supposedly in retaliation for 9/11, even though there is no evidence that Iraq had anything to do with that event. At least in this case it is quite clear where the rockets are coming from and who is firing them.

Lash

Sporadic rocket firing, of which I do not condone, but when Universities, Hospitals, Pharmacies, are the targets, I do have an issue.

I also would like to say that although I am an American, you cannot hold me responsible for 9/11 or Iraq or Afghanistan....etc.

I voted, and not for the government in place. I've been speaking out against the Iraqi war since it began.

I said "it appears" because I was looking to initiate conversation, I know that is not where it all started, but we can go back and forth for centuries. Someday, someone will need to say enough is enough, instead of pushing blame back and forth.

I think it is ridiculous that both Israel and Hamas let the cease-fire expire...they had one implemented, isn't there were negotiations could have continued?

I am interested to hear how you really feel about this, but your attacks on me for being an American citizen are uncalled for. I love my country, if it weren't for this country, I probably would not have the very liberty that allows me to complain and address all the injustices that I see exist.

You attack me for being a citizen of a country who made a bad mistake, while I was criticizing my country for not addressing and publicizing this issue enough....

Only in America could I do and say what I do....

But you cannot blame me for atrocities in the Middle East.

I think that is what one calls an overreaction. I was not attacking you at all, nor blaming you for anything. I was merely pointing out that your country has created far greater damage in its own fight against terrorism, and it is the fight against terrorism in Gaza that Israel is attacking.

As it happens, I probably agree with your stance 95%, and was merely correcting a slight inaccuracy in your opening post.

Lash

The wording of the statement is what illicited my response. "Your own country" is personal (at least to an American), especially when I am trying to explain that it is not about countries....it is about people. If you think I am overreacting, good. I think too many people try to block that which really matters, and avoid discussing or trying to discover resolution because it is easier to ignore...

"A War on Terrorism" sounds like an Oxymoron to me.

I am disturbed by the bias of American media, even though many Americans believe it is the "Left-wing, Liberal media that has control"....if it did, we would probably have a better understanding and have accurate, credible, reliable information.

I am not choosing sides; however, it appears America is dealing with some morale image from WW2 and has decided that funding Israel will heal the past.

Our money, our weapons, etc. should not be involved in a conflict of this magnitude. If Israel did not have their American connection, they would not be able to create the devestation that is and has occurred.

I do not agree with the rocket fire over Gaza, asking Israel to attack...but it is not the people, it is Hamas...when Israel recognizes most of the people do not support Hamas but they decide killing is still the only solution...Killing people who did not ask for or start your issue, and recognizing that they are pawns, but still decide to kill.....

Although in Iraq and Afghanistan America has made huge mistakes, they also tried to help establish a government of the people. That is what made things quite difficult for America, trying to determine what lifestyle and what goals the people truly had, when trying to determine where the attack came from.

Maybe this is why we were attacked by the Middle East. Maybe it had to do with our involvement in an issue, that showed our position was very much one-sided.

What I am saying is that with every action, there is an equal consequence. Although we may not realize the connection today, everything adds up in the end.

Too many people want to shut themselves off to the outside world, when our entire lives are affected by the actions of other people.

Our funding and action reflect the principles and the beliefs of our country, and America does not believe in what is presently occurring. Not the America I come from.

You were overreacting to my statement.

Lash

Murderistic,

Again, I appreciate your insight. This is were I have an issue! So many people want to talk about Hamas and this and this and this....

but what about the people? The citizens who are just trying to make ends meet, just trying to take care of their families?

Politics aside, people need protection. Politics aside, all these people want to live somewhere. All politics aside, this is wrong!!!!

I agree with your vision on illiciting sympathy...how better to get an ally? I fear for both groups of people....

I am sure they do not want their children growing up and going to war against the same people that their ancestors did....why would you want to continue that destructive cycle?

It is a shame that government seems to be a worldly issue...

How can we make people care?

Call me weird...but how many people who have died for that land have gotten to keep it? In the end, no one will have it because it belongs to the earth...as we all do...

The innocent civilians are the ones who I truly care about, and so often they're cast aside as terrorists alongside Hammas. But the truth is that most of the civilians in Palestine are just doing what they can to fight for survival! They all have their own stories, but many of them have been kicked out of their homes and have been oppressed by Israel, often times as a direct result of militant groups like Hammas. And even the ones who do support Hammas are so desperate for a better life for their people that they don't know where else to turn to. Slowly but surely I think the civilians are truly seeing the true colors of Hammas and I really do hope that Hammas doesn't gain enough sympathy globally to become even larger.

I agree that it is sad that hospitals and universities get hit in a war. I also feel nothing but contempt for people who use the hospital and the university as bases to launch attacks.

They assume that it is same to attack from such a base as the other side would never attack a hospital. These people do not care about the innocent civilians. The Hammas killers are so filled with hate that they just regard any civilian death as all part of God's plan. You cannot reason with people like that.

I think that war is wrong but it will not stop until people like Hammas stop trying to kill. Even the other Palestinians do not support them. They showed on Australian news last night that the non hammas areas of Gaza were angry about what Hammas is doing. Arafat tried to mend these problems and it is such a shame that he is gone and these terrorists are destroying life for everyone.

Sharra1~

Thank you for your views! I absolutely agree, it is one thing to be at war, it is another thing to attack hospitals and universities. Sick people are in hospitals, students go to universities.

People trying to better their lives go to hospitals and universities, and because Hamas wants war, it is okay for Israel to attack these institutions? I do not understand, nor will I ever condone the attacking of these institutions.

Please get your fact rightly and not only from one side. please see this map
http://www.ccmep.org/delegations/maps/palestine.html, what do you think of it?
can palestinian life in situation like that?

for your information, palestina now, is only 10% as it used to be. check on the picture if you don't believe me. and even in that small part they still have, israel build so many security post as if it their own land! and you said islamic university is closely affiliated with Hamas? please also checked this, article by a profesor graduated in US that lecturing in the university
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article10069.shtml

please guys, open your eyes...

DeeBomb~

I do not care who a University is associated with, it is a school!

Esmail Haniyeh graduated from the Islamic University of Gaza, said to be a main leader of Hamas, exiled in 1990....

From what I read, his understanding of strategy is worrisome to others....

That is the relationship I found with the University and Hamas. So if you think because it is against Hamas it is okay, then I fear for you and your family.

A school is a school. Those that are educated and educate, work to better the very world that you live in. Much of it would not be possible without education.

It appears to be the attacks on the University are much deeper. I don't care if it was associated with Hamas, Sadam, Bin Laden, or whatever....a school is a school, and I have no right to judge regardless of who attended or who owns it. Some bad people have money and do good things with it. When you attack education, you are attacking knowledge, history, generations of learning. There is no excuse. It is blantant and total disregard.

They are refusing to act peacefully for a reason, and the segregation and devestation people face everyday, seems to be enough.

There is no good or bad side to this. That is the thing. It is not about placing blame. Even if it was Hamas' fault, wouldn't you think dropping to their level prolongs the situation?

There has got to be a way....but I fear there is no desire, because if it existed, I believe the solution would be evident....

I only heard one side....I am curious to hear about the other...

Zamack that is a map of the West Bank, which is still much under the occupation of Israel. That's not of Gaza. Gaza has no Israeli residents or military bases, it used to, but the occupation stopped in 2005. That being said, Israel obviously does have some power in Gaza, because they control their borders, maritime, and air space.

which one is the terorist my friend? is attacking a city with aircrafts and just shoot anybody you see isn't terorist? i cannot believe that in this age of information technology where information is everywhere, you can't see the right fact..

I of all people probably disagree with just about 99% of things that SNDcain says, but do you seriously not think that Hammas is a terrorist group? Israel won the land they have by war, and whether that makes it right or not, that's just the way it is. Hammas is killing innocent Palestinians and making them suffer for the sake of that land. Hammas knew Israel would strike Gaza if they kept shooting rockets over the border. They wanted Israel to attack them. How are you seriously trying to justify that?

Israel has repeatedly reached out to the Palestinians only to be rebuffed over and over--the only reason there is no peace is because they will accept nothing but complete eradication of Israel. I don't blame Israel one bit for doing what they have to do to protect themselves.

It's just bad luck for the Palestinians that Israel is very good at defending itself.

Has Israel reached out to the Palestinians...or to the government that controls them? There is a huge difference.

Who are the terrorists? Who are the victims?

Israel needed to attack an Educational Institution to protect themselves? Really? Since when did a University wage a full-scale war on a country, and on Israel

See...you are too quick to say, "Oh well, sucks to be Palestinian"

What if you were a Palestinian mother? And you are trying to raise your kids in a war-stricken environment, trying to turn them into loving, compassionate people?

Just a stroke of bad luck? Sweep it under the rug? Or maybe you can realize there are more people involved than just the governments of these countries...

Sndcain36~

I would have to disagree with you. If Israel knew how to handle "terrorists" (nice dysphemism, how can you determine the true terrorists?) don't you think the fighting would stop?

Their solution is to kill, and that will not solve the issue. Eventually a family member will avenge the death of their loved one. That is what people do.

If Israel knew how to handle this issue, I wouldn't have started this discussion because the attacks would not be occurring.

This is the same stuff that always happens. They have no solution, except killing.

Why was the cease-fire let to expire?

If they wanted a true solution, that I believe, is where negotiations should have been attempted.

All of this going on, is in the prophecies
of the Bible. Prophetically viewing the future,
Israel will end up a "nation unto itself."

There is yet to be a great and horrible war,
where many nations will form an alliance to
destroy Israel completely.

The Palestians are never satisfied. They get some
land - they want more - they get a bit more -
they want more. For the most part, Israelies will
live in peace - IF they are just left alone. But when
they are under constant attack, they can't very well
just 'sit' and do nothing - - so they confront the
"neighborhood bully."

If you will go to your local library or bookstore,
and get some of the books by "John Hagee" - he has
written about what is to come, and has a doctorate
in Jewish history.

There are a lot of things out there coming our way, and
reading the books and the Bible will help one understand
better. The war of nations against Israel are found in
the 38th & 39th chapters of Ezekiel in the Bible. The
names of the nations therein are explained in John Hagee's
books, and are the modern day named nations of: Iran, Iraq,
Syria, Lebanon, Russia and China. There may be a few more.
I think Germany and Turkey are also involved.

This will be a war that will strike fear in the hearts of most
people, and there isn't anything that any man or nation can
do to prevent it from happening.

Lastly - I am not against muslims - but many don't realize
that they have a mandate in the Koran to destroy all Jews,
and anyone who is a non-believer in their book and their God.

America is included in that group, as are all of the other
peoples on the planet. You can pick up a copy at the library,
or read it online, and you will find it out for yourself.

I'd like to see peace on earth too - but that's not going to
happen till the "Prince of Peace" returns, and we're getting
closer every day.

Are you talking about the "Prince of Peace" being Jesus?

Didn't the Jewish people kill Jesus?

Re pitgull's question, it was the Romans who killed Jesus, to whom the Jews handed over Jesus. But, if one is to believe the Christian message - that Jesus died for everyone's sins, we all had a hand in getting Him killed.

SpoiledBrat~

Thank you for your words. That is what irks me. I understand both sides are fighting and attacking, but when the casualities are as disproportiate as they are, it makes you question the true goal and mission. It is not about survival, not only....because the goal seems to be a sort of holocaust.

I agree...how will they fund their tanks and guns.....hopefully if America stops assisting, it will end quite soon.

I do not want Israel to be defenseless, people have a right to protect themselves. But it is one thing to protect yourself, it is another to keep other people from where they call home. It is completely different when your goal is to kill a specific nationality/religion/type of person, to ultimately satisfy your dream.

Corner1~

Thank you for the religion lesson. I do understand that he fell at Roman hands, but if I follow this logic, in an essence, Jesus was killed by gravity. The Jewish people brought Jesus to the executioner, knowing good and well what would be done. It is much like hiring a hit-man, to take care of your dirty work. The Jewish people turned Jesus over to the Romans. Wasn't Jesus supposed to be their guy?

It is interesting how the religions that battle, share the same Gods? It also blows my mind that the Romans are held responsible...when the Jewish people were quite involved.

I cannot fathom how people can possibly believe that land was given to them, and only them, from some God that a majority of the world does not align with or accept. Especially when these people are responsible for the death of "Gods" supposed son.

Well, first of all, Jesus WAS Jewish and so were His followers. And yes, He was betrayed by His own people. Judas, a disciple of Jesus, informed the chief priests where Jesus was and they had Him arrested, and many people made false testimony against Jesus. Pilate, who was a governor-type of the Roman-Judaean province, allowed a prisoner to be released as a custom of the Passover feast. He allowed a crowd of people to decide who would be released, Jesus or a man charged for murder. The people chose Jesus, and Pilate went through with the crucifixion.

But all of this is kind of irrelevant to this discussion. You can't blame all Jewish people for the crucifixion of Jesus. That's just ridiculous. The fact of the matter is that Jesus was not what the Jews expected, they expected a powerful political leader based on the prophesies, and Jesus instead was a peaceful and humble preacher. You can't blame people for not believing in Him. When the other poster was referring to the day that Jesus returns, He meant that on that day there will be peace in all the world, there will be no more war... the lion will lie with the Lamb. And on that day all will see who the true Jesus is.

Oops, I didn't mean that Jesus was chosen to be released. The people chose for the murderer to be released so Jesus would be crucified because He was hated by many and because He was seen as a blasphemer.

Peaceful and humble preacher, crucified? I believe all involved are to blame. Just because someone is not who you thought they were, is not a good reason to kill them. He gave the people exactly what they needed, but they killed him instead of accepting what would work.

I am not blaming all Jewish people; however, I find there to be much hypocrisy when religion is being brought into place.

I find it hard to believe someone that no one liked, that people killed, would want to come back and "save the world."

We need to do it or no one will.

Too many seem to place this belief in some "Revalation" and instead, we should be focusing on what we can do to make peace more than just a figment of human imagination.....

I fogot to mention that this conflict
began way back in history. It goes
through Abraham's two sons, Isaac and
Ishmael.

Israel is "God's" nation for those
particular people. He is the one who
gave the directions as to what land was
to go to whom, and as long as mankind
violates God's directions, there'll be
wars and trouble.

The end of this will come, but not for some
time, and not without a lot more blood shed.
As I said previously, it is God's land for
his particular group of people - not that they
are any better than anyone else, but this is
"HIS" mandate, and who has ever come up against
God and won?

Just pray for peace. That's all one can do, because
it's all in "His" hands.

Was this land given to them before or after they killed Jesus?
Maybe the negotiations were off the table, considering what Jesus appeared to preach seemed to be the issue in the first place.

Truth and brotherhood is what I heard the Carpenter spoke of.

If only it were followed.

And who said it was their land in the first place?

I can better accept that it was won in war, than people claiming "God" gave it to them. You have no way to prove what you say is the truth, it's like reaching up in mid-air....

It's just a grasp. And weak.

This blatant disregard should be enough for America to withdraw all funding and whatever agreements we have. I don't care about the money, I do not believe in what is being done. We should have either no part or play an active role, not just stand and watch innocent people being used as pawns in a political/religious mess.

Someone should probably tell Hamas that.

Magnifico,

I agree with you. As Guns & Roses says in their song Civil War, "What is so Civil about War?"

Diplomacy would be incredible...and some people have it in them....those are the people that should be leaders.

Our diplomats, our compromisers, our critical thinkers. These people should be our leaders. It helps having someone who is strong and consistent with their beliefs, who has the courage of their convictions....

But those people who know how to talk to people, who can find common ground, that is where our efforts should be focused.

Not on blood and bombs.