Tiller and his Killer
By ParaTed2k
@ParaTed2k (22940)
Sheboygan, Wisconsin
June 1, 2009 9:23am CST
Abortion "Doctor" George Tiller was murdered yesterday, most likely (but not assuredly) by an anti abortion extremist. I guess some are praising the killer, while others are praising Tiller. To me, neither deserve praise or admiration.
Tiller was such a cold blooded waste of human flesh he would gladly kill a full term baby. On the other hand, his killer was such a hypocritical wrech they would kill in the name of "sactity of human life".
No matter which side of the abortion issue a person falls, nothing good happened yesterday. A murder occured and a murderer was born. Nothing to celebrate at all.
3 people like this
7 responses
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
1 Jun 09
Are you sexist?
http://www.mylot.com/w/discussions/2023181.aspx
@betsyraeduke (2669)
• United States
2 Jun 09
No one should have the right to tell other people what they have a right to have an opinion about!
1 person likes this
@lisan23 (442)
• United States
2 Jun 09
I think it's none of your business if a woman wants to have an abortion. I am sexist to a point. You have absolutely no idea what it's like to have children. I've met 2 women who have had late term abortions. In both instances these were planned pregnancies where the baby was wanted. In both cases there was a development with the baby making it impossible for the baby to survive outside the womb. Both these women had a difficult choice to make. Despite my own complicated pregnancy I count my lucky stars I was NEVER in their shoes. I can't say what I would've done if it had been me that had to make a decision like that.
So sit there, all high and mighty (and clueless), and assume that you know what's best for these women and their spouses. Assume that YOU somehow have the right to get involved in their personal business and their family decision. But at the end of the day YOU do not know what it's like to be in their shoes, to walk down the road they walked, and to know that the baby that you tried so hard for isn't going to live.
You're a man, there is simply NO way for you to understand what it's like to carry a child. I'm a woman, there is simply no way for me to know what it's like to have certain body parts. You can call it sexist, but there are differences between men and women, and therefore you cannot assume you actually understand what it's like to be pregnant or be put into a position where that baby isn't going to live.
Even other women can't speak for these families who have been in these situations - including ones that have chosen to carry a baby full term that won't make it. Why? Because every single one of these situations is different and NO man, woman, or government should have the right to interfere in that womans (and often her spouses) decision on what to do.
1 person likes this
@cobrateacher (8432)
• United States
2 Jun 09
Oh, my stars!
Parated, we agree once again. How unlikely is that?
There was once a popular bumper sticker that said, "Why do we kill people who kill people to show people that killing people is wrong?" How much more clearly can it be stated? How can anyone justify killing somebody because they killed somebody? Nobody has a right to kill anyone else, no matter what the reason.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
2 Jun 09
Hey, mark this day down! :~D
Yeah, killing to protest abortion is about as logical as shooting recruiters in the name of peace.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
3 Jun 09
I guess by now you probably realize he is QUITE ASSUREDLY an anti abortion extremist as well as having been a member of the Freemen militia group.
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/06/tiller_murder_suspects_ties_to_right-wing_extremis.php?ref=fpa
I fully realize there are some people who are so totally against a woman's right to have an abortion under any circumstances and who feel that it's "murder"; I don't agree with that but I respect your views. I'm not "for abortion" either but I don't think government has any place in the issue. Anyway, I just said that to point out that everyone wouldn't consider Dr. Tiller a murderer but there's no doubt whatsoever that Roeder is one. Dr. Tiller may not have been a "waste of human flesh" to some people and I doubt that he would "gladly kill" a full term baby without a very good reason. Here is an interesting article. Please excuse me for posting something from the hated Huffington Post but it's no different from any commentary by any writer and I thought it showed a different side of this very touchy issue from what we usually read.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jill-brooke/how-dr-tillers-abortions_b_209686.html
The writer, Jill Brooke, tells of actually knowing women who were faced with making the decision to have a late term abortion and who had traveled quite a distance to see Dr. Tiller. They weren't irresponsible, heartless women who just up and changed their minds near the end of their pregnancies and decided to "get rid of" their babies. They were women who discovered later in their pregnancies that the fetuses they carried would be horribly deformed and would suffer greatly before dying long before they'd ever actually lived. Obviously every woman wouldn't have made the same choices but I don't feel I have any right to judge these women because for some the financial, physical and emotional cost is just too high. Keep in mind these aren't babies with disabilities that can be managed like Downs Syndrome. A fairly large number of women who find they're carrying a Downs baby makes the choice to terminate the pregnancy. I understand Sarah Palin has said she even, however briefly, gave it a passing thought. I admire her and others who made the choice that she did and had the baby and are wonderful, loving parents but I certainly would never pass judgment on those who made the other choice. All I can say with 100% certainty about myself and what I'd have done is "Thank God I was never faced with that decision!"
Sorry for getting off-topic here but I'm just saying Dr. Tiller may not have been the monster some think he was. I heard on TV awhile ago that he had often provided his services for free and sometimes even paid for the women to come to him from far, far away. Roeder, on the other hand, in my view is a monster.
Annie
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
3 Jun 09
That is where (to me) there is room for debate and laws. I've written before that there is no reason for abortion on demand to the the law of the land, however, the current Triage procedures in medicine can and should be used to determine the legality and ethics of abortion.
The purpose of Triage is literally to decide which patient gets treatment and which patients don't. Just as in any other triage situation, there are times a fetus should be aborted. The decision has everything to do with the threat to the lives of both mother and fetus but not whether the mother might be inconvenienced by being a mother.
In the case of a child (at any point in the pregnancy) being a threat to the mother's life, or will die of some kind of "defect" (as you say) before the birth happens, the decision should be left to the doctor.
However, Triage shouldn't be used as an excuse to kill a healthy fetus in a mother whose life isn't threatened. A doctor who abuses it should be treated like any medical professional who abuses triage procedures.
But back to the discussion, Tiller did commit abortions on babies far enough along that he literally had to slice them up to take them out.
Sorry, to slice up a healthy fetus is nothing short of monstrous. He used his medical degree as an excuse to kill. He's no better than Joseph Mengele.
That being said, I say again, he didn't deserve to be murdered and the monster who murdered him had no right either.
Yes, he is an anti abortion extremist and a member of the Freeman Militia, but he isn't the embodiment of all on the anti abortion side, nor is he the embodiment of all militia members... or even Freeman (unless the Freeman back what he did). He was a sick waste of human flesh whose only reason for not murdering others is he hadn't found an excuse yet.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
3 Jun 09
"We're really not that far apart on this. I know that Roeder doesn't speak or act for the vase majority of those who are against abortion. I just fear that some extremists who refuse to condemn his and other similar actions are giving encouragement to others who may decide to do the same thing."
Just as I fear that legislators will use incidents like this to further rob us of our right to speak out and protest against abortion on demand.
Could you imagine the uproar if the government used the harrassment, vandalism and shootings at Military Recruiting Centers to justify imposing a "buffer zone" between all military installations and recruiting centers?
"One thing I hope we can agree on totally is when a murder like this takes place there are other truly innocent lives affected. In this case there is Dr. Tiller's family and the other people who were worshiping in that church. In other cases there have been innocent people killed or injured. "
Absolutely. My condolences do go out to the family and friends of Tillman... and especially the other people at the church at the time. What an awful trauma to have to endure.
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
3 Jun 09
We're really not that far apart on this. I know that Roeder doesn't speak or act for the vase majority of those who are against abortion. I just fear that some extremists who refuse to condemn his and other similar actions are giving encouragement to others who may decide to do the same thing. One thing I hope we can agree on totally is when a murder like this takes place there are other truly innocent lives affected. In this case there is Dr. Tiller's family and the other people who were worshiping in that church. In other cases there have been innocent people killed or injured.
Annie
@ElicBxn (64169)
• United States
1 Jun 09
that is so true, when someone feels they have the right to take another life, even the life of another murderer, where is the good in that? When a gang member kills a member of a rival gang, who loses? The families that's who, and of both people. So it is in this case as well.
1 person likes this
@betsyraeduke (2669)
• United States
2 Jun 09
Joey and I were just discussing that yesterday. It is just unbelievable how some people contradict what they claim their beliefs are with their own actions. Anyone who would bomb an abortion clinic or kill anyone who performs abortions under the claim that they are pro life has no business claiming to be pro life. As the old saying goes, actions speak louder then words. The person who killed Tiller didn't do anyone any favors and they are not any better then Tiller was. All Tiller's murderer did was try to right what he considered to be a wrong with another wrong. Nothing good could ever come from that. I don't believe in abortion but I don't believe in using murder to stop abortion either, that makes no sense at all to me.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
2 Jun 09
Exactly, a person who would murder an abortion "doctor" would kill anyone else. It's just a matter of coming up with an excuse.
@jonesy123 (3948)
• United States
1 Jun 09
I fully agree. Tiller has done terrible things but to kill him is to stoop down to the same level. Who did it is not any better. The location that was chosen was terrible, too.
@hotsummer (13919)
• Philippines
2 Jun 09
the only good thing that should happened is to see him stop what he was doing. but by killing him, it didn't give us any feeling of contentment but only remorse and more regret. cause another life was killed and lost. we don't agree on abortion much less agree on murdering this person. we would just want to change his behavior and practice and nothing more and be sorry for what he did and not to promote abortion and not to encourage any mother to do so but to encourage them to believe in life. i think if that what had happened then we will feel very satisfied.
