Bread and Marmalade.

Hi LittleMrsSunshine, I think I'll leave wmraul to answer here, he lived through the communist regime in Romania where some of these Greek children were taken.

I'm not agreeing with it at all! I hope it didn't come accross that i was! no "regime" is good, whatever the ideology!

Once upon the time there was to be a very high level meeting between Capitalism, Socialism an Communism. At the meeting place, right on scheduled time comes the Capitalism. Aboput 1 minute late comes the communism excusing he was in a party conference. And goes 15 mins more than scheduled time .. half hour .. one hour .. 2 hours ... After about two hours and 45 minutes, here comes the Socialism carrying on some heavy bags. - You will please excuse me, guys, on my way here I saw this long line at a butcher store - there was meat for sale and is rare item .. I satyied to buy some .. Same time, both Capitalism and Communism speak surprised: Capitalism : LINE ????!!!! Never heard about .. Communism : MEAT ?????!!!!! Never heard about ..

Hi Iriene, this is the truth yes. They could have saved their marmalade though as eventually they just forced them over the borders but originally the idea was to make it look as if they were all willing happy little communists. All they of course wanted was food and freedom from fear. The older girls were forced to join the communist army. The marmalade move was nothing more than propaganda. Some of the children managed to return as grown ups.

Hi, Iriene88. Both so called "political extreme", right or left, had, are and will use this style. Divide et Impera - divide and lead/rule. How? No matter how, no limits, no restrictions. Husband separated by wife ? ok .. Childrens separated by parents ? Who cares .. Brokin of fundamental human rights ? Oh, c'mon, what rights ? ... Purpose excuse the deeds.

Hi Gerty, it is actually incredible what some people did to avoid the fate of being forced over the border from their own country, but at the time I described the people had been without freedom for so long. At long last shot of the Turks they then had to put up with the Italians occupying, then the Germans, and then worst of all their own people with their befuddled ideology of communism. The bread and marmalade was a one off, after that it was scratching for weeds in Albania.

Hi dawn, just off on one of my quests to bring a bit of truth into a few of these myths. Thanks for reading this.

Fear and starvation make people do inimaginable things. The real problem was in fact the marmalade sandwich was a bribe but in communism ruled country food was not necessarely in excess .. at contrary, specialy after the war when all USSR sattelite countries were exporting food and raw materials to .. "big brother from east"

The post as I read it required a yes or no answer, so this is how I responded! Of course I have opinions on communism I'm 62 years old! But I didn't see where it asked for an opinion? did you? T----

td, I often want to do that when I see a discusson posted but I've never actually done that. It's a pity you didn't care to expand. I think Wmraul is a mutual friend and he set up this interest in communism to show people what it was really like to live under such a regime. I'm just here to help out to try and get some attention as apparently it's of little interest. But I do understand your answer.

"no" is not an answer, tdmex. Even less an option for an answer. Fascists, nazists, socialists, communists - all together and separate, as they are technicaly the same sith - they allways use "ground preparation". What that mean ? Is like when to armies meet on the field and one of them start bombing the other one positions: is clear that precedes an attack which will come soon. I want to say that in communism you always had only two options: do as they tell you on will or do as they tell you because you are forced.

i was talking about democratic countries who can help Africa but do not (just because there is no commercial interest, unlike Iraq). also Obama refused to meet Dalai Lama just because China asked so. what does that make US to be.....is US learning the virtues of communism...???

Hi sunny68 Where in Africa is "democracy" ? Not to mention China IS a communist country since the end of world war 2 .. You know how my ex-communist govt call themself and our system ? "The real democracy" ! How that works ? Communists make a congress and estabilish what people should want. After, people are persuaded or forced to want. Once they "want", govt say publicly "is the will of our beloved people" and therefor, put in practice. Every now and then there are few who resist to pressure and don't want. Look better at them faces and make some pictures of them - you will never see them again, ever.

Oh .. The above is not for you or for your answer. Is for the system I eant against.

Hi Cloudwatcher, thanks for taking the time to read through this, little is ever spoken about that time here and I really should make the effort to find some real oldies who were around in those days to learn more, but its a time people don't like to talk about. There is so little written about the Greek civil war though that I need to find out more before there's no one left to learn from.

I confess that I know little about this, but I belive that British troops were involved in defeating the Greek communists - or at least helping to do so.

Hi jwfarimond, it is true that there is little information available about the civil war years in Greec which were actually worse than the preceding years of WW11. The purpose of taking the children was to indoctrinate them with communist propoganda and the food bribes were in the hope they could say they had taken them willingly as if to show that the mothers were happy to give them over to the communist system to be raised. The actual Greek communists at the time were made up of those resentful of the life they had before, for instance school masters who felt their talents were wasted and wanted to grab some power and force their beliefs onto others. When they captured villages and put them under communist control total fear reigned and the intial stages of control were to pit neighbour against neighbour, to report on each other for any violation of the rules. Because villagers had had lifelong feuds it wasn't difficult to turn one against the other in order for one to save her own hide and see the neighbour tortured, better her than me. But in the end they were united in the same fate of being driven over the border into communist control. Years lat

Bolshevics had tryied hard to grab under communist rule the hole Balkans. That would have give them sure harbours to Mediteranean Sea which would dis-ballance Europe. Not only. Russians red army with clean sure access to Mediterana Sea would have also frighten Iosip Broz Tito, the only europeean communist which refused red arny support and ranted against Soviet Union. Later, Ceauchescu, romanian communist leader, but after 1963-1965, he also partialy rejected Soviet Union's "help", few times even riscking a war .. Fortunately, westerners - who have had so easyly gve up half Europe to communists after WW2 - managed to turn things back on Greece. A communist Greece operational after 1960 would have mean WW3, no doubt.

Most of them agreed to nothing but were forced to go anyway and were locked away in communist countries for many years where they were force fed indoctrination rather than food. Their whole life they knew nothing but war, civil war and communism and then when they finally returned were treated with suspicion.

Thank you sweetheart...

Sorry it came to your box...it was for Thea...

So again you've described it the same way as the Chinese system, turn parent against child by indoctrination and the web of fear increases. What did they actually do with this childre wmraul apart from indoctrinate them with communist propoganda, were they put to work the rest of the time?

You are right, Hatley, childrens always cry while taken by nearby of them parents, yet sometime quite the parents were those to persuade them own child(s) "is gonna be ok, just for a month/ a year/ a while, you will have a chance I didn't have, is for your own good ..". Often parents, in dictatorial (olygarchic) leading systems, opt to sacrifice them self's feelings and allow childrens to be send away, with the hope they will have a better life .. Most, if not all, of this childs become later brave supporters of the system ... and all totalitar systems have had them own "pre-.." time allowed to raise a generation of blind supporters-followers. In fact, this is the way this kind of systems perpetuate them self. Thru young age school/education where obedience and following the "how to" enforced is rewarded. As Thea said, if is famine (and famine is something can be created .. see the link I put at the end in the other post about communism), offering hard to find food to childrens make them cry out for that, if parents are against .. divide et impera inside the family. Or parents have the "freedom to choose" to send the childs into the system .. The other options is that child is doomed, taken by force or turned against his own parents. Is a game you can not win. At least not palying by the rules and in order to have a chance, must know how system realy works.

Work ? Childrens ? OF COURSE. It was called "patriotical work". Not paid. All kinda stupid things or unqualified works.

I think I could deal with it, I just hate hearing about it because it's sad to hear about it.

Hi Karen, thank you for responding here and taking an interest in the subject, I did create the discussion for wmraul to answer from his experience living under othe communist regime in Romania. The wonderful woman who inspired this discussion was called Eleni Gatzoyiannis and she refused to let her children be taken, but realising the propaganda machine gave a little time before they ended up being forcefully removed she plotted to escape through communist lines to save her children. She managed to save her son and 3 daughters whilst the eldest daughter was forced into the communist army. She got them away but was tortured horrifically and then shot for planning their escape. So she gave her life to save her children from being taken into the system she had been forced to endure when the communists first took control of her village. It is a harrowing story.

In an oligarchic system (religious, kingdom-feudal, fascist, communist, dictature etc) there are tools you will HAPPYLY let childrens be taken away. And not only childrens, but also your rights and .. childrens rights too. There are tools to persuade you to agree and THEY don't give a sith you suffer while taking a such a decision, THEY care only to make things works as they want. And if you stand up and refuse, they will turn the childre against you. "Look mama, papa, Mike have (what to eat, a diploma, school nomination, whatever "shiny" thing childs would want), why you don't let me try too ? Mike's parents allowed him to (name of activity which will remove kid from your control) ?" Cheating, lies, blackmail, force, punishments, .. this is how communism (or any other system I named above on first line) works.

Hello my friend WOW thea I would be that woman, I will do anything to save my kids, so sad she had to lose her life wow

Hi Kitty, don't mind wmraul there, he didn't mean anything by it. As he we both know it happened but I doubt that very few people know things such as some of those so called commnunists were children taken forcibly from their parents as I described. The West often sees communism as a system which people chose to live under whereas the reality is how wmraul describes - either suffer it in silence or disappear. Horrid reality my friend. Imagine living in daily fear and starvation.

Sorry to spoil your fun, kitty42, but has happen and not isolated cases, but .. MILLIONS on communist wide sphera. Please read the answers I gave above 2-and 3 boxes to understand how easyly was for communists to do it. I know you will say "I will stand against" .. yeah, sure .. and, as we were joking during communist time, "resist to system and challenge the chances to raise the 7.62 mm plumbum concentration in your head ..."

Hello I don't see anything fun about this, I read some of your responses, why would you say sorry to spoil my fun? I don't understand that.

Hi zenstrive, you have it in one but what a shame that the promised food was not forthcoming, just the inevitable brainwashing. A triple hit though, brainwashed on an empty stomach, loss of mother, loss of country. You've intrigued me now with your last statement. Is this something you've witnessed in Indonesia, I confess it's a country I know little about but am perfectly open to hearing more.

Communists (or any similar system) can't care less about that. In fact all was like a contest of who can care less about .. Communist regional leaders PROUDLY build reports for "the center" (main offices) about this performances .. And those was shown to ALL populations thru newspapers, radio or TV later, as "how high communist spirit have the (region) population while they are sacrificing them own parental feelings being sure chlds will get a proper education without them and also they can work better while not have to loose time caring about kids .." THAT is communism.

Hi Malpoa, without doubt wnraul is the expert here as lives in Romania, one of the countries the children from Greece were forced to go to to live under communism.

I get it. Been there, seen that thing!!! I m sure you know better.

Hi, malpos Do you really wanna know why ? I must warn you, the answer, the reality behind the explanation, is extremly rough and is so uncomfortable (for a normal person with normal level of commune sense) it first get a "get outta here, this can not be !" kinda reactions from people who haven't been "inside" ..