Former Head of the Democratic Party against health care bill  

This just shows you how much power the corporate lobbyists have within our government.

the public option has been pulled out of the bill. HTey could not get the 60 votes on it to get it pass.But htey left the mandate in. So now if it passes you either buy your own insurance, or get fined, possible go to jail. There is not even a public plan for the working poor to fall back on.
Which means the insurance companies are free to charge whatever they want and we the public have to either pay it or get into legal trouble.

Wow...all that lobbyist money sure buys a lot of back up from Uncle Sam.
I agree though. I won't support any bill that mandates it either. Even with a public option.

I will exercise civil disobedience on this one, I will refuse to get insurance. I will organize (hopefully with help) a MASSIVE national civil disobedience movement on it if nessesary. I am also hoping someone more savey than I will challenge that aspect of it in court, in fact, I hope tons of savey people challene it in court. I will also start houding my state legislators in advance to pass a bill that excludes New Hampshire from manditory insurance purchase...we refused to comply with the REAL id act by enacting a state law that forbid it's introduction in my state, so this to me would be no different.

"a broken clock is right twice a day I guess"

And this makes twice for him. The first time was when he said Democrats in congress won't push for tort reform because they are in the pockets of the trial lawyers.

I'm truly amazed at how people think that republicans oppose it because they are in the insurance company's pockets. Mandating health care is the best thing in the world for insurance companies.

I'm with you in that I will NEVER support anything that mandates insurance. I'm still opposed to mandating auto insurance since I've spent thousands on it since I was a teenager and have never actually used it.

well task, since your already headed north, why not come a little further north and settle in New Hampshire, you don;t have to have auto insurance up here. Lol, you can imagine how hard the insurance lobby works every year to try and get that little gem of a law enacted here in this state...fails miserably every time.

X, you wrote, "I will not support any bill, ANY bill no matter how good, that mandates citizens to have health insurance."
That's certainly your right to feel that way, BUT what should be done when you or someone who shares your view becomes ill? Let's just say you or some hypothetical person has some kind of serious symptoms that leads that person to go to the local ER. Unless current laws are changed, that ER can't turn that person away so they do what it takes to stabilize him and discover there is something seriously wrong, something that probably would have been detected sooner had that person had health insurance and/or a primary care physician. Anyway, so let's say he is told he has cancer or maybe heart disease which will require very expensive surgery or other treatment. Should that person now be told they must pay upfront for the treatment since they have no insurance? Should they be put on a payment plan although the chances they'll be able to ever pay the entire bill are rather slim?

Nobody ever has an answer to questions like this. Some will say to ask local charities but in many areas the charities are stretched so thin they have no funds available, especially when someone needs up to six figures or higher. So, what should happen to these people? Should they be stabilized and then sent home to die or should the rest of us continue to pay for their care because they chose not to buy insurance?

Annie

Sorry annie, I am not going to debate this one on on a "heart strings" basis. I stand by my statement. I refuse to surrender my liberty or allow the government another unconstituional authority based on an emotional argument. It didn't work on me for the patriot act, it didn't work on me for wire tapping, it didn't work on me for my states seatbelt laws and it won't work on me for this either. There is absolutely NO need for another unconstitutional power to be given to the government.

X: Who was it said that "hard cases make bad laws?"

The heartstrings on the left's overused violin are nearly sawn in half, yet for all their (self-vaunted) "compassion," after many decades of throwing OUR money at poverty & every other problem they see (or invent), we still have the poor with us (As Christ--surely THE most compassionate One ever to be born!) famously said we would.

True compassion is not enabling those who could make it on their own to refrain from doing so. Welfare has produced multiple generations of clueless, helpless dependents. Adults chronologically, but still children, in that they can't figure out how to fend for themselves in the simplest way. Worse, this was intentional, which you may confirm by reading their own admissions. (They do admit this among their kind, when they assume no-one is listening.)

Still worse is the idea that "charities are stretched thin," thus implying we shouldn't have to rely on them to help the truly helpless.

Charities usually are stretched thin, but why does it never occur to these folks that they'd be MORE ABLE TO HELP if government would stop bankrupting everyone???

I just get sooo tired of the ignorance, the illogic & lack of thought (not to mention, in some cases, outright dishonesty) of some people.

Unfortunately, these very ignoramuses are now in power.

I try to be optimistic & not be a doom-sayer...but they do make that hard, sometimes, y'know?

Maggiepie
"SAY 'MERRY CHRISTMAS!'"

Mags, my only issue with annies comment was that I am not under any circumstances willing to trade off yet another liberty. She made some excelent points on the problems we have in access to paying for one's healthcare, I can't deny that and things DO need fixing. But I won't believe for one minute that to do so we need to sacrifice even one more ounce of freedom.

Unforuately he is right. The lobbyists have thrown around enough money to get congress (even the democrats) to take out anything that would hurt the insurance companies profits and leave in everything that would help their profits.
This bill is now catering to the insurance companies....it will help them...not the american public.

Don't worry about the poor insurance companies. They are still rolling in dough. Enough to spend millions to get this bill changed to something that will make them even more money.

No more bail outs. Especially at our exspense. I can not afford anymore.

I agree no more bailouts (I don't think any bailouts should have happened in the first place) however it really bothers me that certain industries it's okay to make a profit however in others not so much. Saving banks is somehow alright but not health insurance companies so areas like drug development take the cut. The healthcare industry creates a huge job market.

"I'm very mad at both parties right now"

THe lobbyists have butchered this bill to the point that the only people going to really be helped are the insurance companies. This just shows you how much power and influence they have with congress. I guess throwing around millions to congress pretty well gets them to write a bill that is just for them.
That I know of it does get rid of the pre existing clauses....but what it does not do is limit how much those poeple can be charged for their insurance. So you know it will be sky high and hardly cover anything. Plus with the mandate in place...well if you do have a pre existing condition or working poor what are the changes you are going to be able to afford what the insurance companies are going to charge you? But you are going to have to find a way to afford it because it is the LAW that you have it. IT opens a completely racket up for the insurance companies.
As for your statement "I am mad at both parties". Welcome to the club. I have been that way for years and years now.

They pulled the public option out of the bill...why? they did not have the 60 votes. Just like they removed the medicare buy in out because they did not the 60 votes on it either.

I don't see them getting put back in.
This bill as it now stands is worthless....enless you are a insruance company.

A lot of dems are coming out and telling people how bad this bill is. That is why they don't have enough votes to get it passed....yet.

That...& the fact that the majority of the American people are dead set against it. Then, too, there's that 1/2-mile-high-plus stack of pink paper saying "vote for it (among other crud) & you'll be out of a job next election!"

Hell hath no fury like an American scorned by the likes of Reid & Pelosi!

Maggiepie
"SAY 'MERRY CHRISTMAS!'"