Do you own (a little part of) your country, or does your country own you?
By grandpa_lash
@grandpa_lash (5225)
Australia
April 16, 2012 5:02am CST
I take the view that, as a native of a country, I am part owner of it, along with all my fellow citizens. Politicians are elected to make sure that our mutual property is looked after, by which we will be looked after.
So, I believe that mining companies, particularly foreign mining companies, should have to pay a premium in either tariffs or taxes or licence fees to recompense the citizens for the fact that they are taking away our minerals. We have a right to share in the profits for the sale of our country's resources.
Conservatives, in this country at least, seem to think that the country owns the citizens, and that those with power and/or wealth are entitled to exploit us, send us to foreign wars, and sell off our resources at will to overseas companies who take the bulk of the profit with them. Government is not there to manage, but to rule. What the people want is given lip service, especially at election time, and then they go on doing whatever it is they want to do regardless of what we want or need.
Where do you sit on this?
Lash
4 people like this
11 responses
@sid556 (30953)
• United States
16 Apr 12
I have to say that I agree with you 100% on this Grandpa but good luck in getting any of them to listen or better yet..care. I don't even believe it is just conservatives. It's all of them. When I listen to someone I like, on some level, I know it's just's that he/she is a better liar...even if they have convictions, those convictions seem to be quickly lost once they are elected. I honestly don't even like to vote anymore. It's been a while since I've voted for anyone that I truly believe in.
1 person likes this
@grandpa_lash (5225)
• Australia
16 Apr 12
It's a shame you don't have a Green party like ours. That would show you honest politicians with ideals and compassion, and the education and intelligenece to manage, not rule.
Lash
1 person likes this
@purplealabaster (22085)
• United States
16 Apr 12
I do not think that I own the country nor do I think that the country owns me, even though I do have a document that says that I am owner of a piece of this country. I actually think that we are all just passing through ... renters if you will ... because this planet has been here far longer than any of us and will most likely remain when our descendents have long since perished.
I do agree, though, that while we are occupying a particular piece of land, then we should have the rights to what is on or under that land. If someone comes and takes the minerals, oil or whatever that is on the land we are occupying, then they should have to pay us some sort of compensation for it. The government should be looking after our interests and resources ... they would kind of be like the parents. They should be helping to protect us and giving us the opportunity and providing the foundation for us to grow and thrive, even if we do not all choose to take that path. They do not own us, though, just as our parents do not own us.
1 person likes this
@grandpa_lash (5225)
• Australia
17 Apr 12
You have answered a dimension of the discussion that I hadn't thought much about, since I think globally, but it is an important point. Mining companies are given huge concessions, and the legal ability to come along and drive out householders to get at the ore below, or to ignore a Heritage Environmental Reserve, with the government's approval, and this is wrong if you consider that the government is there to serve its population. But governments DON'T think that at all, they see us simply as the cannon fodder which is stupid enough to vote them into power - and power is the crucial element here. It's not about serving, it's about mastering.
Was it Heinlein who once pointed out how the term public servant usually translates as public master? Whoever he was, he was right.
And for families who have lived in a home for generations, is any amount of finacial compensation going to make up for the loss of all that family tradition?
Lash
@sarahruthbeth22 (43143)
• United States
25 Aug 12
The conservatives may feel the same way over her but they are not listened to. Only half of us even vote. They get into office and spend most of their time fighting among themselves and us regular citizens live our lives. So they may think they can turn back the clock and take away rights but... many of us will simply ignore them. I said they will get their wish , they will take control but they will have to jail most of us and the ones who are not in jail will pay more taxes.
@sharra1 (6340)
• Australia
17 Apr 12
I quite agree with you. The leader of the new conservative state government in Queensland said in his opening address that he would rule us well. I am surprised that no one told him that he is NOT a king. Not only do they believe that the country is theirs to rule as they please that when they lose an election they yell and scream that it was unfair and that they should really be the government. Our federal opposition has been doing this since the last election 18 months ago. I am getting heartily sick of it.
The behaviour of both our major parties has caused me to look for an alternative. Now I vote green and hope that they can moderate the excesses of whichever major party is in power. I think we would be much better off with a true representational government that had a mixture of many political views instead of one party with all the power. It has been interesting watching the minority coalition government since the last election. They had to get support from outside their party to govern and so other views had to be taken into consideration. I would like to see more of this in the future but I doubt it will happen again.
As to mining I think they should pay for the minerals. I know they pay royalties and we have now brought in a mining tax but it is a mere fraction of what they make on the raw materials. However, I think there should be rules such as when a person holds a title they hold the title to all their land not just the above ground bit. I strongly object to mining companies being able to mine under your land even when you do not want it. They also should not be allowed to mine agricultural land that is being used to grow food. In Australia we have so little land that is fertile enough to grow food and too much of it has already been taken for housing. I have heard that a Foreign mining company has bought productive farms with the intent of mining coal. Well once they have mined the coal the land will never be productive at all and valuable food land will be lost forever. We must maintain food and water security but it seems that all the government cares about is money so goodbye food security. It is so stupid and short sighted.
@grandpa_lash (5225)
• Australia
17 Apr 12
And under the Gatt treaty and economic globalisation, the loss of agricultural land is not seen by some as important because we are already importing a lot of our food, and they just imagine will will increase that. But we have one of the most productive agricultural systems in the world: why on earth would these idiots sell off our agricultural resources to mining companies when the obvious likelihood is that the places we buy food from will soon enough become too expensive or run into their own problems with producing enough food for themsleves, let alone others. By that time it may be too late for Australia to recover its own food-producing capacity.
These politicians are caught in the fantasy of being CEO's and Managers of a multi-national - their country - and treat those of us who don't want to work for a multinational like subversives and fools. Everything is about money: the anger of a Conservative politician the other day when talking about the Greens push for some sort of precautionary principle, where he thought that the creation of wealth, most of which, incidentally, goes out of the country, and the creation of a number of jobs which reflects the needs of only a miniscule proportion of the work force but is what allows that wealth to be "bought", is more important than future food security, future resource access for our children, climate change, and pollution. He was also on about farmers not being able to use all the pesticides and herbicides they want to, another thing he is angry at the Greens for because of their opposition.
At the risk of being a bit full of myself, this is a verse from one of my more popular songs when I was still performing.
I could talk about the ozone, and the salty water holes,
But my sorrow at the passing of her beauty grieves my soul,
[b]And I see my children’s children like the ancient Bushman clans
Scratching life from dirt and rocks and shifting sands.[/b]
In the language of the wise it’s said the word for world was forest,
A word that we don’t use much anymore.
For a time of greed and blindness turned the forests into deserts,
And the word for world has changed beyond recall.
Lash
@Rosekitty (19368)
• San Marcos, Texas
18 Apr 12
I agree with your way of thinking, but sadly i feel since i have to pay taxes on everything then i really don't own anything..i don't own my car..cause i have to have the inspection done each year and have insurance or get a fine..same with the house to pay taxes on it..and if the city wants my land..they can just take it for eminent domain..I think i spelled it right...So i am living in a house and driving in a truck..for a short time and as long as i don't do anything illegal..they can forfeiture on my house or truck..Maybe i got off the subject but do feel that i don't REALLY own anything..and i feel the Gov. could do whatever they wanted to us..
@grandpa_lash (5225)
• Australia
18 Apr 12
The key point is the government can do to us, not for us.
Lash
@RawBill1 (8531)
• Gold Coast, Australia
18 Apr 12
Well, I would like to think that I own a little part of it, but in reality, we are owned by those who control us with all their taxes that we are subjected to. The political agendas of each of the major parties seem to matter little in the long run. We still get screwed over by them and the big banks. What I would like to see is the Greens in control (at least at a state level at first) to see what would happen. I think it would be very interesting! Not sure how they will go now without Bob Brown though.
I think that foreign mining companies should be made to pay the highest premium for destroying our natural resources. But are they really ours in the first place? I think that the local Aboriginals should get most of the money from the mining companies as it really is their land in my opinion. Most major mines are not on any land that we Europeans have used for anything productive, whereas the Aboriginals sustained a lifestyle out of much of those lands for thousands of years.
@grandpa_lash (5225)
• Australia
19 Apr 12
But Bill, the mining magnates tell us that paying the aboriginals for their resources is simply welfare by another name and that they don't have the ability to spend it wisely, so let's just keep all that money for the white stockholders.
The current argument is the mines they are trying to set up in rich agricultural land, especially around parts of southern Queensland.
And Bob was not a one man show. Christine Milne has been around as long and has almost as much internal recognition as Bob, and I'm sure she will handle to job well. The only problem is whether the Greens will follow the practice that all other parties have done at all levels, that is, butcher any female leader on what can only be seen as sexist grounds. How long will Julia last, I wonder?
Lash
@RawBill1 (8531)
• Gold Coast, Australia
20 Apr 12
Yeah, that does worry me that it is a bit like welfare, but it really is their land so they deserve to be compensated or have some control over it I feel.
Yeah, I know that they are starting to take up farming land. That was a major worry about 5 years ago in WA as farmers saw no other option than to take the massive payouts for their land instead of continuing to grind out a living off the land. I guess QLD is the same. The problem then is that we lose our food bowls and have to import food. Not good at all for the future of this country.
People need to embrace permaculture techniques and get back to growing their own food organically themselves in their own yards. We cannot rely on the current systems to keep feeding us. It is just not sustainable in the long term.
I think that Christine definitely has the skills, but like you say, will she (and the party) be given the same chances? I think it will be an interesting time for the greens! I think that Julia might be feeling the pressure, which is why she is talking about pulling the troops out of Afghanistan leading up to the election.
@chiyosan (30186)
• Philippines
18 Apr 12
oh no... :D i think this country owns me.. much like a slave - master relationship because of the tax they get from me! that is huge men and they even get the tax even before my income comes to my hand!!! whoa.. and you get no service from the people around here, more of talking about the government employees who aren't helpful at all.
@sukumar794 (5040)
• Thiruvananthapuram, India
17 Apr 12
By owning a piece of land in a particular area of land ,we assume ourselves that we are the owners of the place. But in fact it is the country that owns us. None could be sole possessor of a chosen owner of a place in the country,because the whole country is before them to follow.
@JenInTN (27514)
• United States
30 Apr 12
I agree. I think that there is a lot more "ruling" to the "free" than anyone realizes. I think that in every sense of the word our countries seem to own us. They even control what we are allowed to see and learn. Although I do realize that there is a cost for most everything..including freedoms..I often wonder if the cost has to be so high. I think there could certainly be more involved for the people within their countries than what the elite allow them...but then that might threaten their status if people had the chance to be equal and they wouldn't want that.
@megamatt (14290)
• United States
19 Apr 12
Yeah as much as we would like to think differently, most governments around the world really do have a tight grip on the people in the country. Forgetting who elected them to those cushy little jobs. In some countries, the grip is rather a bit tighter than others, but in general, the story tends to start the same way, we really are at the mercy of those who are in charge.
We vote naturally and perhaps it may make a difference, placing someone who is corrupt with someone who seems less corrupt. Or perhaps gives off the illusion that they are less corrupt. We tend to just choose the names and the faces of the people, but too often, the story remains the same. Welcome to the world in 2012. It is rather unfortunate.
@boboskull (49)
• Croatia (Hrvatska)
16 Apr 12
hey, I`m from Croatia and I would even say that here the country owns the citizens.
of course, there are some limits, but yeah, you could say they "own" us... :(
