Why is it so freaking hard to fire government employees?

@Taskr36 (13963)
United States
April 19, 2011 4:47pm CST
I'm truly baffled by the level of incompetence tolerated by the government at EVERY level. We have air traffic controllers now who are literally sleeping on the job, risking lives by doing so. Just today there was another story about one watching a movie while he should have been doing his job. Have any of these morons been fired? Nope! They are on suspension pending an investigation. The feds won't tell us though if it's a PAID suspension which it probably is. These guys aren't underpaid or unappreciated as their unions may claim either. They are making about $180,000 a year. We all know how hard it is to fire a tenured teacher. In Oregon a teacher organized a group to go to tea parties and carry racist signs to make the tea parties appear racist. He also advised his minions to data mine social security numbers and other personal information from people at Tea Parties. Teachers lately have been using their classrooms as political soapboxes making children sing songs worshipping the president. Nobody's losing their job over it though. In Alaska Sarah Palin was a villain for firing a public safety commissioner who allowed a trooper to stay on the job after tasering a child, drinking alcohol in his squad car, and various other illegal activities showing that to some on the left, it's a crime to fire incompetent government employees. I'm a librarian and I must say when I was in Miami I worked with the most useless employee I've ever seen in my life. This piece of garbage would routinely come in 2-4 hours late. He would call, say he'd be late, and not show up at all. Sometimes he'd leave for lunch and not come back. Once he disappeared and was found asleep in his car after being gone for almost 2 hours while on the clock. During the grand opening of the branch he was drunk and even attempted to hit on the associate director of the library system. Every time he was written up for anything all he got was a "verbal counseling" or "written counseling". He never even got suspended. He did get demoted a few times, but kept his original pay rate so he was really just being paid the same rate for less work and less responsibility. He also challenged every disciplinary action through the union. So I'm trying to understand, why won't local, state, and the federal governments fire these people? Why are they allowed to continue their employment? In private businesses I've seen people fired on the spot for sleeping on the job, mouthing off to customers, being late too often, calling in sick too often, or just walking out before their shift was over.
3 people like this
10 responses
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
19 Apr 11
First of all, I felt compelled to correct you; they aren't making "about $180,000 a year" but even if they were I'd have no problem IF THEY WERE DOING THEIR JOB! Air traffic controllers earn relatively high pay and have good benefits. Median annual wages of air traffic controllers in May 2008 were $111,870. The middle 50 percent earned between $71,050 and $143,780. The lowest 10 percent earned less than $45,020, and the highest 10 percent earned more than $161,010. The average annual salary, excluding overtime earnings, for air traffic controllers in the Federal Government—which employs 90 percent of all controllers—was $109,218 in March 2009. (End of excerpt) http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos108.htm#oes_links I just wanted to defend the Air Traffic Controllers who DO do their jobs well. I can't imagine a more stressful job, especially at a very busy airport. These losers that have been caught napping and the one who was watching a movie are beyond defending but they're the minority, not the majority. The latter and those who intentionally went to sleep during their shift should be fired, I won't argue with you there, but the ones who were all by themselves in a tower on nights when there were only a small handful of flights probably couldn't help it given the types of shifts they work and the way their schedules change from week to week. Obviously, there needs to be more than one controller at all times. Have you ever seen the movie "Pushing Tin"? That made me see air traffic controllers in a whole new light. Annie
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
19 Apr 11
I stand corrected on the salaries then. I probably just heard it wrong when the salary was mentioned on the news or I mistakenly thought they were talking about average salary when they might have said something like "Some of these people are earning over $180,000." You don't have to defend those that are doing their jobs well. They aren't the ones I want fired. I also don't object to their salaries if they're doing their jobs well since lives really do depend on them. I respect ANYONE who does their job well, whether it be a drive-thru cashier at McDonalds or the CEO of a Fortune 100 company. This isn't really a rant against air traffic controllers, or anyone else who does a crappy job. My issue is with government agencies that aren't firing the incompetent employees. No, I haven't seen "Pushing Tin". Maybe I'll check it out sometime.
1 person likes this
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
20 Apr 11
With a near miss (3 miles) of the First Ladies Plane because of a "mistake" made by a controller if this will hasten the process of change. Just for the record Annie I have some friends who are commercial pilots and they tell me that a computer can fly the plane better, smoother and more efficiently than a human. This includes landings and take offs. The pilot is ther in case of a computer problem. Many pilots still do the landings and take offs but when in flight the computer (Auto Pilot) does the flying. I agree with you that both jobs are very stressful but look what happened to the 2 Northwest (a private company) pilots who over flew their destination. They were fired and lost their license. Maybe it is time to to do what many other countries are doing and turn the job of Air Traffic Control over to a private company financed by a fee on the airlines. Something to think about.
1 person likes this
@murkie (1103)
• Philippines
20 Apr 11
i have the same observation in my country. one reason is that, the employee in question may be a friend (or endorsed by a friend) of an influencial politician's (or bureaucrat). that is the case here. during campaigning period, these people are active supporters of a candidate. in return, they get promised to a job. so if their candidate won, who else to work for but for the government, or specifically, to the person handling the government. another reason is that, there probably wasn't enough people interested enough to work for the government. so the people in charge just keep the delinquent employee, just so to have enough available hands. or maybe the people in charge of recruitment and employment are really not doing their jobs. note: i am not speaking of the entire workforce. i know of several gov't employees who are effective and efficient in their posts. but there really are just few bad apples that affect the whole bushel.
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
20 Apr 11
I know that working different shifts is difficult. One of the factors that I heard is that these guys want 3 or 4 day weekends so they cram a 40 hr week into 3 or 4 days. To do that they have to sometimes work with only 8 hr between shifts. This is what they negotiated in their contracts - give the workers what they want and the public's safety be D**. In 4 days you have 12 - 8 hour shifts and a controller has to work 5 of those shifts. Because you need to have 8 hours off between shifts and you need more controllers during the day - you always have tired controllers on duty. Because this is in their contract what is it going to cost the government to change it. This points up the problem with Public Sector Unions - you elect someone who is beholden to you and you get what is in your best interest and not in the public interest.
@elmiko (6630)
• United States
20 Apr 11
because their sacred.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
20 Apr 11
No matter what a union employee does, no matter the job, you cannot criticize or even really bring their jobs up without the usual "it's a HARD job," "____ work VERY hard," and "____ are underappreciated" crap. If someone sucks, they suck! Why protect everyone? (Rhetorical. We all know the score.) It's just the weird standard on the left, the way they deal with "language," that makes it impossible to even debate an issue, much less fix something. The idea of the collective obviously sees every employee as the best employee, each deserving of what the next earns. No wonder some people don't take their jobs seriously. All they have to do is actually keep showing up to ride the gravy train. If someone's sleeping on the job or watching a movie or simply not doing as well as someone else, no, they're not working hard .
@zeraeign (163)
• Philippines
20 Apr 11
My God. That is indeed a serious problem. What is the government doing about this? I don't know about that here in the Philippines but I heard they're almost the same. There are politicians who earns (whatever they earn) but has not made any accomplishment at all, or if they did, they would do it when the elections are coming. LAME!
• United States
20 Apr 11
Tenure is one thing. Government corruption is another. This is not a Democrat or a Republican thing. There are corrupt people on all sides.
@Destiny007 (5805)
• United States
19 Apr 11
It is because of the unions that these people are allowed to stay on a job that they clearly have no business doing. The unions should be abolished altogether, for they serve no useful purpose and haven't for a very lng time.
@irishidid (8687)
• United States
20 Apr 11
When I was still married my husband worked for a painting company. They got hired to work at a hospital doing painting. The union had the job but were taking so long to do the job they were six months behind. While my husband and his fellow workers painted, the union painters took long breaks and even napped after lunch. The hospital had to keep the union but Kansas is a right to work state so they hired non-union painters to come in and do the work the union wasn't doing.
@jennyze (7029)
• Indonesia
20 Apr 11
Ah, I thought this kind of laziness and carelessness only happen in my country - a third developing country. Now, I know better, government will always be government wherever they are. I guess there are no rules and guidance to be government employees or staffs (like in a private company) where you get sanction even for being lazy...