Driving - a right or a privilege

@speakeasy (4171)
United States
May 3, 2012 11:30am CST
Does everyone have a right to drive a vehicle or is that a privilege reserved for people who have valid driver's licenses and insurance? Los Angeles (and the state of California) have a policy of setting up sobriety checkpoints to cut down on drunk drivers. CA law requires that vehicles being driven by people who do not have a valid driver's license and insurance be impounded if a licensed, insured driver can not be obtained quickly to drive the vehicle away. Repeat offenders have the vehicle impounded for a mandatory 30 days. This law primarily affects illegal immigrants who canot get a drivers license and/or insuranace. Los Angeles estimated that there are hundreds of THOUSANDS of illegal immigrants in their city who are driving without licenses or insurance and wants to stop impounding the vehicles. See article http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/03/us/change-in-lapd-policy-has-immigrants-hoping-for-more.html_r=1&nl=todaysheadlines&adxnnl=1&emc=edit_th_20120503&adxnnlx=1336060895-t4yJFEx2aIx5Ka/wRqgWzA They claim that the city is too big for people to get aroound in without driving (what about their mass transit system?). Since these people are not even supposed to be in this country and may not even have had drivers licenses in their own country - is this a wise decision? Allowing people with no driver's license and/or insurance to continue driving. While not issuing driver's licenses may not deter illegal immigrants (they just drive anyway) - taking their vehicles away from them for 30 days and making them pay the impound fees makes more of an impact on their decision to remain here illegally. What do you think about this?
3 people like this
14 responses
@peavey (16936)
• United States
3 May 12
I got a "page not found" on your link, but I'll respond anyway. If it's a right, why do we have driver's licenses for anyone? Especially legal citizens of this country... why do we need them, if they don't? No, driving is not a right. Twisted logic might try to claim that it is, but it isn't. Maybe it should be illegal to own a vehicle without a driver's license? The they could be taken and sold to someone who could produce a license. Of course, there would still be "stuff" going on, but maybe not as easily. If we have the right to drive without a license, then we can vote without being of age and we can own a house without paying property tax and we can drive a car without insurance and on and on... laws are there for our own protection.
1 person likes this
@topffer (42156)
• France
3 May 12
This link works : http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/03/us/change-in-lapd-policy-has-immigrants-hoping-for-more.html
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
3 May 12
Sorry about the page not found - copied and pasted from address bar but who knows? It was in the US section of today's NY Times. Actually a lot of these vehicles do end up being sold to cover the impound fees. A 30 day impound bill is a lot of money and a lot of these are vehicles that were bought for "cash" because they also cannot get a loan for a vehicle (have to have a license first to get a loan). We do allow tourism so if these vehicles and drivers had valid drivers licenses, registration, and insurance from Mexico they would be ok; but, that is not the case. For all we know these drivers may never have had a license or may have had driving privileges suspended in their home country. We need to keep them off the road. People try to claim illegal immigrants are not criminals; but, last I knew it is a crime to drive a vehicle without a license and/or insurance. Why should they be treated differently from someone who is a legal resident that either never bothered to get licensed or lost heir license? I agree driving is a privilege that must be earned and maintained or it can be lost.
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
3 May 12
thanks topffer - copy and paste does not always work right,
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
3 May 12
As soon as I read the title, I thought "Heh...see, people need licenses to drive, so why do people fuss about voter ID laws!?" I can't see how driving is a right. Walking is a right. Being a pedestrian, you don't need anything. But once you're operating a motor vehicle, you have to comply with certain standards for safety reasons, one of the biggest standards being, of course, actually having a license to operate that motor vehicle. If someone here illegally thinks it's their "right" to drive, well, I can't help with that too much. Some people believe it's their right to own an iPad and other luxuries. Some people believe you have the right to the highest level of healthcare possible simply because you're alive. Some believe you have a right to a job, regardless of skill or work ethic. I would only say that people need to define rights a little better. Don't expect so much as a right and you won't be so let down. Here's an idea: All you folks who believe it's a human right to drive, to have a job, to have an iPad, to have a car, to have a home, etc, gather up and start your own country. I'm not sure how you'll afford it. I'm not sure how you'll even get any money at all. But as it stands now, your "rights" are infringing on the wallets of hard-working people who actually earn money. They're threatening the safety of good law-abiding citizens. That's obviously in a general sense and not pertaining only to the license deal. For that specifically, don't forget to add that law--or lack of a law--to your newly formed nation! Allow anyone to drive, whether or not they prove to be safe or of a responsible age, etc. In fact, don't even hold their vehicles to any standards with inspections. Don't have them registered either! It's your right to drive. So go have at it. (How you gonna get fuel without money? CRAP! That's another "right" I forgot about. My bad.) I hear there's a lot of land in northern Canada that no one is using. The good news: You can drive there.
1 person likes this
@KrauseHome (36448)
• United States
4 May 12
Driving is a right and a priveledge. People should be made to be able to prove proof of a Drivers license, and insurance just to prove who the car really belongs too, and to help in case of accidents, etc. I know that back in the day when I lived in CA I had a temporary permit/license for driving for my job I did. But it did expire, and was only supposed to be used at certain times. But in reality I always wonder if something would have ever happened who would really be responsible then? To not have to be legally responsible could cost a lot more money for sure.
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
5 May 12
Proof of ownership is the vehicle's registration. A license proves you have had the necessary training/experience to operate a type of vehicle in a safe manner. Insurance can be purchased by any person (vehicle owner or not) and provides a minimal amount of protection to people who are harmed in an accident. Without a valid driver's license, insurance companies will not cover the costs of any accident (that is part of all auto policies). So, when you have a person without a driver's license operating a vehicle, you have a person that may or may not be able to safely operate the vehicle and no protection for anyone who may be injured by that driver's actions. In the event of an accident, the victims would need to sue the driver and the vehicle owner to try to get compensation. If the owner and/or driver were both illegal, what would prevent them from just skipping. If they are poor, there is no money to get from them either; and, once again, the victim is victimized in more ways than one.
@coffeebreak (17798)
• United States
3 May 12
I think it is fine. Anyone who is hit by a non-insured driver will say it is fine to. Driving is a privilege, not a right. If it was a "right" then why is there an age limit..have to be 16. Why not let 10 year olds drive? Isn't it their right? Of course not. It is a privilege and goes with rules. If anything, allow them to have insurance without a license cause if they can they will drive. I'd rather be hit by someone with insurance, than someone with a piece of plastic in their pocket. ANd just cause they have a license, doesn't mean they are a good driver. I thin insurance is far more important. And have you been to LA to see the traffic issues? The "mass transit" only goes so far. There is only a few of them and they don't go to all cities. And even then, they end at the general "edge of town" and if you office is on the other side of town..how do you get there? More public transit, all of which are on a time schedule...if the public transit doesn't meet your employment time frame..you are out of luck. And in some kinds of jobs like construction..you are required to supply your own tools..that means you have to carry buckets and tool boxes onto the "public transit"..and have a place to set them down..etc. Can you see the problem with that? And what about doctors...they get a call for an emergency..."okay, let me get out the bus schedule and see when the next bus is". Or.."well, tell them to hold of...the red line doesn't leave for another hour". Or if you are a working mother...school calls,your child broke his arm falling off hte jungle gym"...you have to say"well let him sit or send him to the ER alone as the next metro link doesn't leave for 3 hours". Public transit is good, but only for so far. I say that at least make the illegals get insurance. If they don't...then take their car away. At impounds, to get it out you have to show valid DL, Insurance and Registration...they would only have one so they wouldn't be able to get their car...meaning they'd be off the streets.
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
3 May 12
I agree that public transit only goes so far. But, there are taxis for times when public transit won't work (costs more than transit; but, less than maintaining a vehicle and/or paying impound fees and fines). These are people who are not supposed to be in the country in the first place. They are here illegally. They are not allowed to have jobs and work in the US. They are breaking laws every day and don't care about breaking a few more. No insurance - no problem - they will just skip and go somewhere else under another fake name if they are involved in a serious accident; so, why would they bother to pay for insurance in the first place. The whole idea of impounding vehicles for drivers without licenses IS to make it difficult for them so that the ones who have had licenses suspended will be more careful if/when they get their licenses back. No sense in making it easy for all of them just because a bunch of them can't legally get a driver's license here in the first place.
@coffeebreak (17798)
• United States
3 May 12
I totally agree. Make them take the taxis...they make more money that the rest of us! If they are not here legally they need to go home, but they don't cause this country supports them in every way. And there will be some group that has nothing better to do with their time, that will start a big stink about it...like they are currenlty just about the "L" word....good grief, if you aren't legal, you are illegal. Period. No if's, and's, or buts about it. But I guess I was thinking more of those that are citizens and don't have insurance.
@topffer (42156)
• France
3 May 12
By themselves, these impound fees don't solve really the problem : who will pay for the damages when there is an accident due to a vehicle with no insurance ? As USA have ratified the international convention recognizing an International Driving Permit in 1949, maybe it would be a wise decision that the state of California recognized IDP to authorize illegal immigrants having a foreign license to have an insurance. I know that foreign tourists are driving with their foreign drivers license in USA, but I am not sure that it is really legal in California as long as the IDP is not recognized by this state. Anyways, if these people are hundred of thousands, I think that it is more urgent to find a way to force/encourage them to have an insurance than to extend car pounds.
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
5 May 12
They don't solve the problem. But, anything that makes it more difficult for an illegal immigrant to be here and stay here, increases the chances thath tey will go home or to some other country. When they can't afford the impound fees, they still end up having to pay cash for another vehicle. That is less money they have for themselves and the people they are supporting "back home". If it happens frequently enough, it is no longer profitable to be here. If they have a valid Mexico driver's license, the state does recognize it. These people do not have a valid license from any country. No insurance company is going to issue insurance to an individual without a valid license and driving record that can be checked.
1 person likes this
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
5 May 12
Oh, and a law to make them get insurance would not work anyway. They have already proven they don't give a da** about our laws. Every part of their day is based on breaking laws. Breaking a law to be here, breaking laws to work, breaking laws driving without licensesand/or insurance, etc.
1 person likes this
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
19 May 12
Many of them will not go back to their home countries. But, if we make it difficult to live here they will go to other countries that are easier to live in illegally. The US got a reputation of being easy to live in if you were here illegally and every decade or two we would let illegal immigrants become legal. That was getting ready to happen again; but, American citizens were fed up and stood up for ourselves.
@vertu007 (683)
• Romania
4 May 12
I don't know. I get the fact that they want to stop immigrants from driving, especially that they don't have insurance. I know they are there illegal and everything but on the other hand I understand their need for a better life. That's why they go to USA. In my opinion it's not a black or white issue.
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
5 May 12
Actually, the goal of the checkpoint is to get drunk/impaired drivers off the road; and, while doing so, remove any vehicles being driven by unlicensed drivers. That includes: underage drivers without licenses who are "joyriding", drivers who have had their licenses suspended, and other adults who do not have a valid driver's license. Unfortunately, illegal immigrants normally fall into that last category. Los Angeles has so many of these illegal immigrants that the police "feel sorry" for them and want to exempt anyone who is caught driving without a valid license - including people who have had a license suspended for cause. After all, how do you know the person without a license is here legally or illegally? Illegal immigrants do not just come from Mexico. Illegal immigranst come from just about evey country around the globe. So, anyone without a license can use a real (or fake) accent and claim they are here illegally and, in Los Angeles, get out of a ticket, fine, or impounded vehicle; even if they have numerous DUI convictions (they may not be drunk yet, they could have been on their way to get drunk).
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
3 May 12
Since this is an anti illegal and pro law the NYT may have moved it to their paid subscription section on the net so as not to offend anyone. I think it is a great idea. If the person driving the car is not the owner then the owner should have to pay a fine or the driver faces auto theft charges. I am suprised that CA is the state doing this, maybe there is hope for some sanity in CA.
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
5 May 12
Actually, if you will check the first response, someone was nice and posted the correct link to the article. It was not moved, my copy and paste may have missed a digit or two at the end. (If you actually read the NY Times, they have many articles that are both for and against illegal immigration and for and against various laws.) Actually, CA has been doing this for many years, Los Angeles has decided that they know better than the state and are trying to change the STATE law for their city.
@cher913 (25782)
• Canada
3 May 12
it is definitely a privledge! what does CA do about elderly drivers? here in ontario (Canada) they are tested when they are 80, but NOT given a road test, just a written test which is just wrong. i live in a city that is about 40 minutes to Toronto and Toronto, being one of the big 3 largest cities (Montreal and Vancouver being the other two) it is sort of like NYC where it is pointless to own a car. lots of people live in my city and commute to Toronto. i think illegal drivers should be punished!
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
3 May 12
I agree and impounding their vehicles is one way of doing that. So are fines and if they are here illegaly, deporting them works too. Any person that has had their privileges revoked or suspended would face the same penalties. So why should these people who are obviously breaking the law on a daily basis (by driving without licenses and /or insurance) be allowed to get away with it?
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
3 May 12
If we called driving a right than the entitlement crowd on the left would be screaming that either the government or automakers must give us all free cars. The simple fact is that it is a large, and dangerous motor vehicle. I see nothing wrong with requiring a license to drive. I also see nothing wrong with impounding vehicles being driven by illegal aliens.
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
5 May 12
The state of California agrees with us; but, Los Angeles thinks they know better than everyone else in the country. Their police dept thinks it is "sad" to see a man and woman unloading a child seat from a vehicle that was being driven by someone without a drivers license. I think it is sadder when an unlicensed/uninsured driver causes an accident and hurts and/or kills the passengers in their own vehicle or in another vehicle.
@SomeCowgirl (32191)
• United States
3 May 12
Don't you hate when the good thought you wanted to post pops out of your head? that just happened to me. In any case, I know some Illegals who have a driver's license, illegally obtained, but from our State. If California, and LA County want to get rid of those motorists without a license, they need to impound the vehicles, they need to make those take the public transit systems and / or a cab to and from work or the grocery store each day. Though the thing about it is, if we were to take all of the illegal residents out of America, it'd make a very very very very drastic drop in population here.
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
5 May 12
True, some illegal immigrants do illegally obtain drivers licenses. They are not the ones getting caught in these checkpoints. Impounding vehicles has been standard across the country when a vehicle is stopped and the driver cannot produce a license or another person with a license to drive the vehicle. Obviously, CA feels that repeat offenders need to learn a lesson by having the vehicle impounded for a whole month. But, Los Angeles thinks they know better and their police dept doesn't want to enforce the law anymore. Yes, there would be a drastic drop in population, if they all left. But, we would adjust and there would be more openings for legal immigrants.
@GemmaR (8517)
3 May 12
I don't think that anyone has the "right" to drive. At the end of the day, a vehicle is a heavy machine which could do a lot of damage if it were put into the wrong hands; so it is seriously important that the person who is allowed to drive is responsible. I think that more should be done about people who speed in their car because they obviously don't care all that much about safety on the roads if they're driving too fast. People should have to have a driving refresher lesson every two years to make sure that they still know how to drive properly.
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
5 May 12
I agree that it is not a "right". It is a privilege and that privilege must be maintained. Re: speeders - I do not think a refresher would do any good for them. They do know what the speed limit is and they choose to violate that law in spite of what they know.
@alberello (4752)
• Italy
4 May 12
I think, just to respond significantly to your question, you can drive, is a right, but not a privilege. I could write pages and pages about the advantages and disadvantages of driving a vehicle. Starting from the assumption, however, to speak of drivers with a valid license. I am only able to mention the responsibility of those who drive motor vehicles. Surely a matter of primary importance is that any car, if misused, it is a real weapon! So, ok to drive, but regularly and with great caution!
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
5 May 12
Many people in large cities donot even own a vehicle or have a driver's license because of the expense of owning and maintaining the vehicle and because they walk, take mass transit, or taxis and do not feel the need to drive. Having a license at least ensures that the drivers are aware of the traffic laws and have experience driving a vehicle of that type. What we have here is a city that thinks that they can stop enforcing traffic laws set in place by the state; simply because, there are so many people there disregarding the law. A right is something that every person is entitled to have/do. A privilege is something that you have to earn the right to have/do; and, it can be taken away from you. Since driving a motor vehicle requires practice, training, and licensing; and, it can be taken away from you for repeated infractions of traffic laws (or physical limitations); that, would make driving a privilege.
@AidaLily (1450)
• United States
3 May 12
It's a privilege for anyone whether you are a U.S. citizen or not. I understand what they are trying to do, but I don't think its quite going to work the way they want it to work. The main reason being is because you have U.S. citizens who will drive with no license or who already have it suspended or even teenagers who can drive but have no license or licensed driver available. Are they only catching these people at sobriety points where they may be driving too fast? I don't think it is wise to allow people with no license or insurance to keep driving because of how big the city is. After all, in order to get your license in the state I live in, you have to pass a written test and then a driving test to show that you do know driving laws, understand the signs, and so on. I have to agree that taking away the vehicles and having people pay impound fees is a better plan.
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
3 May 12
They are primarily catching them at checkpoints where they check EVERY driver with a sobriety check and verify their license, registration, and insurance. They do also catch them occasionally at routine traffic stops for speedin, etc. Personally, I think they are lucky that they are not being taken into custody to determine whether they are in the country legally or not; and then, turned over to ICE for deportation if they are here illegally.
@Suebee (2013)
• Canada
3 May 12
I also got the page not found but here it goes... Why would anyone be allowed to drive without a licence, whether they are in the country legally or not? I have to have a drivers licence to drive here in Canada, as does everyone. What makes ANYBODY think that they are above the law? What makes them think that they can put other peoples lives in danger, because that's what it amounts to, by driving without a licence? A drivers licence ensures other drivers that you know the rules of the road, that you have passed a test proving that you are a capable driver. I realize that even people with drivers licences can be unsafe drivers or not follow the rules of the road sometimes or just be plain bad drivers, but at least they are CAPABLE of being safe drivers. They just for some reason choose not to. I would consider those driving without a licence to be unsafe. And if they ARE safe and CAPABLE drivers what's the big deal...go get your licence!
@speakeasy (4171)
• United States
3 May 12
I agree; and, we do have agreements with both Canada and Mexico about allowing drivers from these countries to drive here for a limited period os time when visiting. So these people either never had a license or it expired and thye never bothered to get new ones issued legally. They cannot get them from the US (except for 2 states) and they refuse to go home and get one legally also.