There is a difference in HAVING an opinion and STATING it!!

you haven't asked my opinion of your avatar, so I won't tell you I like it I should never express an opinion that comes to mind, such as 'my I love your new dress', because no compliment should ever be expressed for fear of forcing someone to hear my views without invitation

OK, maybe its because I just woke up after a poor night's sleep and feeling flustered but I sense sarcasm here. Being complimentary is one thing and Thank you for the complimenting my avatar but disrespecting someone just to get one's point across should not be one's first resort (although I understand there are exceptions, there always are).

not sarcasm, rahul, irony and there is a subtle difference I was trying to point out why I disagree, not disrespect, without directly expressing an opinion you sort of need to have a sense of humour, both in mylot, but even moreso in life if we take ourselves SOOOOOO seriously that everyone is afraid to dare say ANYTHING to us, it is true, we cannot be offended, but neither will we ever be honored, or loved

Ok let me ask you this - if you KNOW the opinion you have of something WILL be seen as offensive by the person or people you are with, are you going to voice your opinion? How about if you think it will only offend a third of the group? How about if you think it may offend only ONE person in the group? Does the percentage or number of people you have the potential of offending come into play at all in your consideration?

No worries . We all get busy and sometimes I never even see half the responses I get here in the first place. I just wish that strangers particularly would consider not just WHAT they say to other strangers but also HOW they say it. I am aware that many people have not learned manners and a lot of people also seem to have no filters, but this happens equally among young people (high school to college age) and older people (60s 70s, etc). I notice a lack of really bad manners in the 30-40 crowd, but that's my generation, so maybe that's why? We were still taught not to purposely be nosy and rude to strangers when we were children? I mean I would NEVER consider just blurting out to a stranger that I think their outfit is inappropriate, that I think they have too many children. There seems to be an ever growing group of people in society who think saying things like this is somehow acceptable.

,no, certainly it would be wrong to voice an opinion in which we have no vested interest I might let a lady know, discreetly, of course, if her skirt is caught up in her pantyhose, because I would be sure grateful if I had a wardrobe malfunction, but as my mother said, and many others have too, if you haven't anything nice to say, say nothing or as I explained in the post under rahuls name , there are those days its better to hide out

I really like this response, well thought out, considered, and written. People are all nuts when it comes down to it! So few act the way we are all taught to believe people should act. I actually think it does make a person a step better if they don't conform, because too many people feel compelled to conform or need acceptance SO BAD that they do it despite not really wanting to. It makes a lot of people slaves to others, caving to peer pressure, and I think people who go along with the crowd because they are afraid to go their own way are less-than in general. Of course that's just my opinion . If you follow instead of lead though, to me that denotes a lack of strength and conviction. Except in this forum, I don't share my thoughts unasked lol. If you ask me though, don't think I'll NOT do it.

Hmmm. I have one tattoo but I don't consider myself part of a group of tattooed pierced individuals. To me, not conforming means you may be very different than your friends in terms of physical appearance, talents, and some hobbies but you agree on things that matter, like valuing relationships, taking care of your body, having or wanting children, furthering education, etc. That's not to say I don't have tattooed friends, I do, but I also have friends who were horrified at the fact that I got one lol. I am still friends with these people, regardless of whether they agree or not, and I don't care if they never get one, as long as they don't rag on me for getting one. I also consider more the reasons people do things. If you got a tattoo (for instance) because it's something you personally care about that matters a lot to you, I think that makes your decision somehow much more important than some young adult who goes and gets a random tattoo during spring break at college on a dare because everybody was drunk the night before. See what I mean? As far as myself, I really pick apart a lot of 'traditional' views of things because when it comes down to it, a lot of the reasons why people held those views don't make any sense. In neither of my marriages did I allow the line 'if anybody is against this union, speak now or forever hold your peace' because I don't care if anybody is against anything. It's my marriage, NOT somebody else's. Also, I did not include the whole 'giving away' thing because a bride is not property who belongs to her father. I also don't believe in a man asking someone's father permission because again, the permission must be asked of the BRIDE, not her parents. Anyway, just a little window into my version of non conformity. People really should dig to find out WHY people chose to do things a certain way, not just go along with them. If you agree with them, well that's great, but I think if a lot of people would research a little, they may not.

Ironically, the people who claim to be non-conformist, are oddly the most conforming people there are. I always laugh when some goth looking chic, starts talking about how she doesn't conform to society, and then you look at all her friends, and she dresses, same hair, same eye shadow, same boots, as all her goth friends. All of them looking nearly identical. While proclaiming how different they are, they are all exactly the same. I've seen the same with with jocks, with the nerdy intellectual types, the gamer people, the sci-fi people, biker people. Even people who are into tattoos and piercings. You see them showing off their purple hair and 50 metal boogers and splatches of paint mashed all over their skin, and they talk about how different they are. Then you see their friends, and they all look exactly the same. I actually think these groups are more conforming than the rest of society. I remember one specific girl who got a tattoo and was instantly part of a group of people who had tattoos. She later decided that she didn't like the ink blot test on her thigh, and had it burned off. Suddenly all of her 'friends' disappeared. If you didn't conform, you were not invited. Truthfully the people who truly don't conform to any group, are usually outcasts from everyone.

Like I stated under another post - there is nothing to be gained by telling another person that they are ugly or fat. Nothing. I can think of no better way than to hurt feelings, cause an argument, or ruin all possibility of any civility or friendship with someone if you do something like that. There are more reasonable and RESPONSIBLE ways of being truthful or attempting to help someone, and we all know it - except maybe for people who have absolutely no filter and were never discouraged as children from 'laying it all out'. Clearly, if you want to be a friendly, sympathetic, respectful person, you will have learned the rules of making friends and influencing enemies, which often means you need to find ways to say things that are NEVER openly offensive. They can still be honest, but just in a kind manner, and if the person objects to what you say, why not apologize for being wrong or assuming something? That's the respectful and responsible thing to do. I've had to do that before but I sure do try hard NOT to assume things about people. I actually am not a big believer in trying to protect people from themselves. If someone may be in trouble, I might say something once or twice but if they shoot me down, I leave them alone. I see nothing to be gained by arguing with someone or trying to prevent them from killing themselves if they are so determined that they may bring me down with them if I don't leave them to it. Did Jesus save everyone from themselves? No. Did he give each person the ability to think and choose for himself and the tools to survive if they were wise? Of course.

I construed your discussion statement in a more philosophical manner. Nothing I said had to do with personal assaults of any kind. That narrow construction of "opinion" never even entered my mind, because it's not at all a part of "free speech", but rather being mean-spirited and foolish. I thought I made that clear, but apparently not so. So, let me clarify - we all have opinions about lots of things, but that is in no way similar to foolish and unkind personal attacks on a person re his physiognomy or other specific personality and physical appearance. I was speaking in general philosophical, political, moral terms only. You are correct in that Jesus hasn't "saved everyone from themselves". Of course we have free will, given us by a loving God. And, in fact, we are advised to "shake the dust off of our shoes and move on" when a message designed to help and heal is constantly rejected, specifically re a relationship with God. But that is certainly not the same in any way, shape, or form as calling someone "fat" or "ugly". I can't imagine those thoughts and words coming from any reasonable person.

Glad you agree. In terms of real life, there are many people who believe that 'being honest' or 'stating an opinion' DOES encompass things along the lines of telling someone they think they are fat or ugly. There was a discussion here once posted by someone who asked what people would say if someone had a baby that was not cute/attractive in any way, and she implied it would be dishonest to tell the person the baby was cute anyway. My answer to her was that I would find some other aspect to focus on in a positive manner rather than say the baby was cute, or not cute. I have actually found myself in this situation before and I believe I made a comment about the baby's outfit or his hair. This was enough to satisfy the parents, who were not hurt by what I said, even though I did not BALDLY and HONESTLY actually answer their question. This is not to say that everyone needs to follow any PC rules either, but to use derogatory terms purposely when there are better things to say is probably WHY so many people are so into trying to be PC. While we are discussing God, I think people should realize, their job in witnessing is to share the message, not necessarily convert people. Once someone has shared their message, that is enough. People will believe or not believe. They may ask questions... or not ask questions. Continuing to 'share' with someone or tell them after they have already heard it once and don't really find it interesting is like an over eager salesman who keeps following you around the store for 20 minutes after you have said you're just looking. Keep in mind if I have said I'm just looking and someone follows me around, I usually just leave without shopping, even if I DID originally go in there to buy something. I really dislike people who hover or don't listen to what I say at first. If you aren't listening the first time, you probably will not listen in the future either.

Exactly - uncalled for opinion lol! I think we all need a return to 'don't talk to strangers' unless you're going to say something very innocent and nice that would apply to any and everyone!

Giving unsolicited advice is interned in our bones. Someone will barely say they have a headache and out comes advice - why not take this, or take that!

Hmmm... cool or smart, two things I NEVER think of someone who expresses a purposely rude opinion or comment in public to someone they don't even know lol. Cool or smart would be at least getting to know you first by broaching a conversation in a general manner, not saying something assumptive or potentially offensive as your way of 'saying hello' LOL!

Well, some people don't think the way we do.

When I don't agree with someone, I usually say that I don't, but I don't tell them that I want to take away their opinion or void or ban their choice - unless they come at ME that way. I think the world needs choice because we are all different, and in order to be true to ourselves, it's important that we embrace differences without having to fear destruction of our choices because they aren't the same. I even saw another discussion today regarding banning soda - and ordinarily I'd just say I'm not in any way FOR bans of any type, but the person went on to say they think NOBODY should have soda so I said I am for banning people from banning things lol. I'm not about to have any other person on the planet think their own decisions should get to affect MY choices.... especially since whether I drink soda or not has ZERO effect on any other living creature 2 feet from me.... or 2 thousand miles from me.

As long as their opinion doesn't affect my rights it doesn't matter much. I draw the line when someone's judgemental opinion may affect my rights or the rights of people who don't agree with the person who has the left field opinion lol.

I know . I do give my opinion if somebody ASKS me, but sometimes I ask the other person how open they are to a totally different view before I answer. If someone is NOT open to another view, sometimes I will decline to state. Like I said, I see nothing wrong with 10 people having 10 different opinions on one topic but do they all need to be shared so all 10 people are at war with each other? No, not really.

I like knowing there are multiple sides to a story or ways to look at something, but I am usually pretty clear that my view won't be changed as a result of a discussion with somebody, so as long as the other person's intent isn't to argue or change my mind, we can discuss ANY topic in depth and we'll probably both have an enjoyable conversation.

I appreciate people who are honest but not the kind of people who say 'no offense BUT'. If you see that word, you KNOW the person MEANS OFFENSE... because clearly they realize what they are saying after may or will be perceived as offensive. They KNOW this. And yet they say it anyway and then wonder why you don't like what they've said. Some things I consider rude, hateful, hurtful, or discriminatory - people who state THEIR belief is the only right one and if you don't agree, there is something wrong with you. People who call you evil because you are a different religion or NO religion. People who lump you with idiots because of the political party you belong to or agree with. People who dislike or hate you because your preferences or lifestyle or relationship is different than theirs. People who think it's their job to comment on your lack of children or your number of children - as if your family has anything to do with them. People who assume your nationality has anything to do with your culture/language/way of life. People who believe one gender is in any way superior to the other. These are just a few examples of things people really ought to think about before blurting them out. More people than you realize are affected by these topics, and some people may NEVER say they are offended, but they very well might be. Honesty loses its benefit if it is given at the expense of someone's feelings or if it isn't really honestly because you are assuming something that is not correct. It's better to ASK people for clarification before barreling ahead like a bull in a china shop.

I don't like to hurt people - but if someone hurts me first, and then doesn't try to make things right after I've said they made an assumption or what they said (unprovoked) was offensive, I have been known to say something back that hits them where they hit me. I am not a bully but I am not a victim, and if you come at me, I don't sit there and take it lol. I don't think that makes me mean or vindictive, it means I have a healthy sense of self that I won't allow to be violated. If I hurt someone's feelings accidentally, I like to know if I did so I can apologize and not repeat the behavior. Some people would never apologize, and as for repeating the behavior, think they are right so they see nothing wrong with how they treat others.

I'm really starting to think Andy is right and that a lot of people secretly dig being offensive. Otherwise more people would be SORRY if they came off offensive and they would apologize and not do it again.

I like how you responded . There is something to be said about agreeing partially with someone else yet still keeping your own view separate.

Heh. I usually spout right back on people who have no impulse control and then they have the nerve to get mad at ME for speaking the truth! I'm not the one who broke ranks first is all I have to say about THAT.