Okay Another Religious Issue~~ About Buddhism And Reincarnation

Maybe those of us who have always believed in reincarnation even as kids and without understanding it all are very old souls?? And maybe those who don't are young souls with a lot of lessons to learn.
And yes, I guess there are smug ones in all religions who believe only they have the right to go to heaven or to reincarnate

I understand perfectly well what you mean about your "memories" or dreams of being in a concentration camp, and I must say they can't be pleasant to have. I don't know if you're a writer per se, but ever think of writing those dreams/memories as a novel?? I say this as one author I read, Joan Grant did actually write fictional novels but based on her past lives.
Oh yes, I've had that experience....of meeting people I've never met before and maybe instantly "click" with them...like we're picking off were we last left off..had the other experience to, of meeting someone I've never met and just couldn't stand

Yes, you do understand, don't you? Those memories are distinctly not pleasant and sometimes I worry that maybe I could have been on the "wrong side" in those memories, you know? I try not to dwell on that, but you just never really know. I do feel so blessed in this life though, surely I must have learned something along the way about love and compassion. Even with the trials we face, such as the ones you mention about your pain, which I unfortunately can relate to, I still feel that I have been given many riches - not a reward, per se, but a simple blessing and gift.

I do write, although poetry is more my milieu. I do believe that you've given me some inspiration in that area, Pyewacket. Thank you, and I will let you know what comes out of it.

You bring up such good topics - keep it up, we need you, your insight, your questioning, and your keeping us on our toes.

Hehe....well not all my discussions are so "deep"---if you look at some of my other discussions I've had wacky ones...like my "deep" discussion about bubble farts...LOL--sort of a balance maybe..from the very serious to the way out wacky--but then that's me..a blend
Seriously though, while poetry might be your forte...maybe could write a novel based on those past memories??
I've written a lot of short stories, and have novels in the works..now if I just had the time to do them all. I write mainly fantasy type stories, but once did a short story with the Civil War as the background...I once showed it to someone, and the person said he couldn't read the whole thing...that it was WAY too graphic about my description about the war. He also wondered how a person like me, who has never been involved with an actual war could've been so descriptive...mmmm...how indeed. The Civil War period just happens to be one of my favorite periods of history...maybe a past life there??????

By the way, I understood that enlightenment (in Buddhism) was the end of the cycle of reincarnation - that one was reincarnated many times until one achieved enlightenment and moved to a higher plane.

Owl, once again you impress me with your insight. Although this is not what I personaly believe I think it could be a diffinate possibility, and a logical one at that.

Albert Eintein said that there is never any more, or any less energy in existance at any given time. So all the energy that exists today, has existed since the begining.

So if you think about the human soul as being energy, then death is nothing but energy returning to the source... though I must admit I like your "soul pool" analogy much better.

So are you saying that the living human soul may be comprised of a mizture of many different souls "soul material"? I guess what Im saying is, if I am reading this right, is that all the souls eventually go back to the "soul soup" if you will, to get mixed together and served out for another incarnation?

Correct me if I am wrong, but so far this sounds like a very valid theory... I'm very interested.

Your Fan,
Tee

Wow owlwings you certainly have a very poetic way of viewing "reincarnation" per se, maybe not quite how I view it but valid nonetheless. And oh yes, I think a lot of us can relate to the idea of meeting someone we may never have met before and "clicking"

Yes I think at one point as far as reincarnation goes we do eventually reach a point where our souls are "perfected" or enlightened, that we have learned all the lessons that we needed to know and therefore have no need to incarnate again.


Mmmmm...since you throw words about Einstein II2aTee, I'll throw one at you which to me gives a perfect example of how recyclable everything is in the universe, and could apply to the soul..."Matter and energy cannot be created or destroyed, it only changes form.." The matter or energy being our soul and the physical body the form and how it changes from incarnation to incarnation

Now that you mention it, Tee and Pyewacket, it is about energy. My view is that 'God' (the Creator) is pure (but sentient) energy and is both the Creator and the Created (in other words, the Universe, as some of us like to call it). I find it quite difficult to express exactly what I mean but I believe that the phrases 'God is Love' and 'In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God' are an attempt at saying the same thing. 'Love' is the energy, the pure care of and involvement with creation that every artist knows about. 'The Word' (logos) is the expression (an everlasting 'Ommmmm') that keeps everything up and running, a perpetual 'creation'. Our souls (and our bodies) are part of this. Our bodies return to the earth and their individual elements are (very indirectly) used to create new ones. Our souls (which are both sentient and sentience itself and therefore part of the 'Word' concept) return to the 'soul source' (or pool, as I described it above) and are returned to new bodies as they are needed.

In my view, there is no separate individual, apart from us, who is 'God'. He/she/it is the whole of creation and we are therefore a part of it. Those who say that 'there is no God' are merely seeing the same thing from a different viewpoint. We live in a sea of air but many of us (most of us, actually, unless we consciously put our brains in gear) don't even think about it.

I am not sure that I have expressed that properly. Our 'words' are rather poor when it comes to abstract concepts!

"In my view, there is no separate individual, apart from us, who is 'God'. He/she/it is the whole of creation and we are therefore a part of it."

I need to clarify that. Yes, there IS an individual (and only one) who is separate (in the sense that it is not us) but of whom we are an integral part and from whom we cannot really be separated. 'God' is in us and we are in 'Him'. There is, at any given moment, a Way which we may or may not choose to follow. If we follow it, we have resonance with the Word, if we choose not to, there is discord. That is the sum and total of what is meant by 'sin'.

As a follower of Wicca, Pywacket, you may recognise a male and a female personality as separate entities. I am OK with that because humans (and most other animals and plants) are made that way, so it is logical to view our progenitor in the same way. It has been said that 'men are from Mars and women are from Venus' ... fine! I come from the Sun [wink]. Is that OK by you?

You bring up a good point that we can't be really separated from "God"...that God is within us...the "I Am God" concept, which of course some people of some religious persuasions would freak out at the audacity of claiming that--but even in the bible is the concept that God made man in his own image...

I think how you express yourself is fantastic owlwings..no worries there..it is rather hard to express such concepts..sometimes our viewpoints are inwardly ones that really can't be expressed in any real clear language--it's just a inner knowing??


Yup, I'm a follower of Wicca, and yes we do believe in a female AND male entities of the Divine Creator...to my mind not to believe in a feminine and masculine aspect is a bit chaotic....it's like yin without yang, black without white, positive without negative--it creates unbalance somehow..mmm..you're from the Sun..mm..I'm from the Andromeda Galaxy...heehee

For shame...a writer and you can't spell?? That's okay, neither can I--in fact usually writers are the worse spellers.
That's been my impressing too, that we continue to incarnate, learn all the lessons each incarnation gives us, and when we've learned them all we are considered enlightened and need not incarnate anymore

I don't completely understand your meaning here..like the religion of our ancestors as being cataloged as devil??

Yes, that person obviously didn't know what the heck he was talking about and I too believe we incarnate many times until we do achieve enlightenment

This gave me a chill. What a profound experience... you are very fortunate to have had it.

I am in agreement that we have all been here and done it... many times over.

Funny story... I was talking to a co-worker who is convinced she was Cleopatra in a past life. She was goin on and on about how she had this amazing connection, and an urge to move to Egypt and this that and the other.... and I just had to sit there and roll me eyes. I just wanted to tell her "You may have been Cleopatra in a past life, but your a Data Analyst in this one... so get over yourself." I didnt say it... but I should have.

I think that when people think of past lives, they have a tendancy to want to imagine a past life of glory and elegance... when in reality, we cant all be great historical figures.

One of my favorite authors, Silverwolf, tells how she used to have dreams about medival pagan cerimonies. In her dreams she saw a room with witches, alters, chanting, candles... everything that would hint at a life of magic.

"Cool" She thought. "I must have been a High Priestess!"

Later, she went to a past life regression therapist to get more detail to her dreams. It turns out she was indeed wittnessing pagan ceremonies... but not as a High Priestess. She was actually a serving maid peaking through the keyhold late at night.

I'm not sure what that story has to do with yours... other than it reminded me of that.

In any case, I am glad we are both here, in this life now... and it's my personal belief that we will one day be able to look at ALL of our past lives like a book... study it... and see what we might want to come back as, to help fill in the blanks of our spiritual studies.

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Wow, what a story...sounds like you had some kind of flashback to another time and it was triggered by your being in that courtyard..a replica of something else you experienced in another lifetime.
Years and years ago, when I used to go to the Met Museum, you sure enough could always find me in either the Egyptian wing, Medieval Room, or the rooms that were reconstructions of early American colonial homes (around the 1600s)---I'd sort of be in a trancelike state myself

Oh and just to clarify II2aTee..nope never thought I was Cleopatra..hehe..but have always had a strong affinity with the Ancient Egyptian culture especially around Akenaton's time (the heretical pharaoh who was the only one to "promote" his monotheism beliefs with Aten--oh, the priesthood of Amun just loved him..NOT)
Nope we definitely can't all be great historical figures...most times we were probably poor slob peasants.

Zig...
Raven Silverwolf...she's a famous, well known author of about a zillion books dealing with Wicca--I haven't read all her books, only have one actually
While I'm curious of who my past lives were and when I had lived, I'd be scared to be regressed thinking that maybe a part of a past life might stay "stuck" once one is back in the present, meaning a negative aspect of that life...I mean the whole idea of incarnating is to move onward, not backward..and yikes, what if I found out in another lifetime I was Marquis de Sade?

Hey Pyewacket! I see you finally made it through those pages of comments and responses all the way to me! I wasn't expecting to hear from you this soon even!

I've had a few experiences like the one I described, although that one was the most intense. I had one about Egypt too, I think. I used to be a plantlady and I was on my way to some university offices for keys. I was walking across again a sort of courtyard with a fountain that had some stone like benches around it. Everything was really white and it was an intensely sunny day. I was wearing sandals and looking down at my feet as I walked, and as I got to the fountain with the benches - I was looking at my sandaled feet and the white stone structure was in my peripheral vision, and all of a sudden this feeling came over me that was like a memory ready to burst on me. It didn't. But the feeling was so strong... for some reason I associate it with Alexandria... the library in Alexandria (Egypt).

I used to be a lot more interested in past lives than I am now. The past is the past and I am not interested in dwelling on it, especially the past of someone like the Marquis de Sade!!!

Hi zig...yup I had a lot of plowing through here..LOL..some great comments here and I love how II2a Tee has peppered his input all over the place

Oh yes of course I know about Alexandria...couldn't you have strangled the idiots who burned that library--that was in Julius Caeser's time wasn't it?...think of all that knowledge that must have been in that library
This might sound dumb but one movie that really got to me and I felt myself slipping back into time was Cleopatra ...the original with Claudette Corbet..just loved that whole "thing" of it--uh no I'm not Cleopatra...hehe
Want to hear something really flaky? When I was a young kid I ALWAYS had to have gold colored sandals..as it reminded me of the ancient Egyptians--okay laugh if you want--but you brought up the idea of sandals here

As much as I love anything ancient Egyptian I don't know if I would ever want to go there though..I mean somehow the blending of the ancient and modern would seem weird to me...though a friend of mine did actually go there.. saw the Sphinx and all and said it was awesome (actually hate that word..just quoting her)

I have no idea when the library got burned... I am not a history buff in the slightest.

I was in Egypt once in this lifetime thanks to my mother, and I met this guy from Chicago. He wanted to buy some hashish and our tour guide took us to meet some guys for him to get it from. We sat by the banks of the Nile and made the deal. On the way back to the hotel, all the guys that had been hanging around us on the bank were clustered all around us, jabbering in their own language. One guy came walking up real close beside me and I looked over and he had his d!ck in his hand! He wasn't the only one!!!! I could't phucking believe my eyes - which I immediately discreetly lowered - and my friend and I hurried on to the hotel, which fortunately was right close. Then later on the train to Cairo, my friend panicked that we were being followed and took all the hash into the bathroom and flushed it down the toilet. I wonder if anyone ever was walking along that train track and found it. It was a lot.

Anyway, yeah, the blending of the ancient and modern was very weird, and not romantic in the slightest.

I can't help wondering if you got that kind of shat due to the way you were dressed. I remember reading (yeesh, me and my reading) that certain modes of dress have to be observed even by "western" women since that is a Moslum country--in other words all parts of the body has to be covered in some way...so in other words shorts are a definite no-no--to dress like that with shorts maybe the guys thought you were a hooker?? LOL

Yeah, not only was I wearing shorts but it was after dark, and I don't know about now but back then women didn't go out into the streets at night.

Yes how sad that there are closed-minded people no matter what their religion...that's what threw me when I read that remark. I don't even know if the person is actually Buddhist. My way of thinking is that we have many lifetimes, each incarnation another chance to learn what lesson it is we need to know. Only after we have learned all the lessons, then yes perhaps we reach an enlightened stage and need not incarnate again

Mmm...maybe this sounds outlandish to you, but why should we think we only incarnate on this world though?...being the science geek I am and astronomy lover I firmly believe in other forms of intelligent life out there in the universe...
Uh..."geen" what's that? LOL

Hahaha! Too funny... your thoughts and beliefs are peppered all through this discussion (I love it - that is what a discussion should be!), but then in your 'official' response the only thing left to say is "Whatever gets you to sleep at night..." My cheeks hurt from laughing over that. Hehehehe.

Anyway, I left a comment for you above in my post, I totally didn't think to search out yours and leave it there... sorry!

I have absolutely loved all the comments you have made and sprinkled around throughout my discussion here II2aTee... I was looking at your profile and noticed your 25?? Yikes I'm old enough to be your mom...hehee

The point though...for someone so relatively so young you have a lot of "old" wisdom...so you definitely must be an old soul who has been around many times to have such understanding and beliefs...can't help thinking that people who scoff at any kind of "metaphysical" beliefs are young souls, and don't ask how many I'd come across.

I must be an old soul too, as I've had a lot of my "beliefs" ever since I can remember, even before I actually started reading up and studying anything on the "metaphysical" line..In fact, growing up as a kid (and I mean LITTLE kid) I related better and could talk to adults but not peers my own age--maybe I was born "old" LOL

You are very kind, thank you so much for the compliments.

I've actually been told I am an old soul alot... I'm not so sure if I believe it. The time that stands out in my mind was in high school when someone told me I must have been a duke in a past life because of the way I carry myself. I actually pictured myself as pretty scrawny and gangly... especially back then... but the comment stuck with me because something clicked. I dont think too much about it because I'm just a regular person in this life, regardless of anything else.

If I am indeed an old soul, I will probably be ancient by the time I finish up my cycles. I LOVE life. Love it. I mean like in a really weird way.

Like when I sneeze. I get this amazing feeling like "How wonderfull!" I know I'll probably sound like a nut job but I wouldnt be able to sneeze if I wasnt alive. Thats just the tip of the ice berg.

When I leave for work in the morning and I walk out the door... if the wind blows agaisnt me I get that same WOW! feeling. I can feel the wind because I'm alive! It's astonishing what triggers that joyous feeling inside me. It dosent even have to be something enjoyable... Sometimes when I'm sick and miserable I'll be laying in bed with Vicks smeared all over my chest and tissues sticking out of my nose, but I still think inside my head how amazing it is that I can experience this. Alive!

I can picture myself sitting in heaven... or summerland... or the soul pool... or however you want to picture it... and just YEARNING to go back. To feel the rush of being born... to be a child... to be a teenager... to be an old fragile senior.... and just experience LIFE in all its aspects. The joys, along with the heartbreaking sorrows. I will ALWAYS come back for more.

I havent had any profound experiences where I think "Wow! I have been here before!" or "Wow! I have met this person before!" but I do believe in reincarnation for a very personal reason, and I have never really told anyone about this before.

I remember when I was a kid, I would stand on the stool in the bathroom and stare into the mirror. I just studied my facial features... looking over everything and I remember thinking "Who is that?" as if my eyes were not my own. I wasnt afraid, but I remember looking at myself in the mirror with eyes that were mine, but not mine. I dont know if that makes any sense. As I got older, I look in the mirror and its the my familiar face... but when I was so young, I think my soul was kinda taking in my new body... learning it. Kinda like thinking "So this is what I look like this time..."

Now that you think I am a total space cadet, I will leave you in peace:)

Thanks for bringing up this topic.. it has actually triggered alot of feeling inside me... and i am getting that WOW! feeling again.

It's GREAT to be alive!!


Tee

Hehe....well right at the moment I'm sick and miserable...but yes, life even when sick life is a "gift" Something my mother didn't appreciate...don't ask all the problems with her, but she in a sense took life for granted especially toward the end ...she made the transition on Aug. 27, 2005. Yes, she was ill at the time, but instead of making the most out of life for the remaining time she had, she virtually just vegetated....just sat on the sofa staring at the four walls..what a waste. Instead of waking up each day, blessing the day to have another day of life she hated the day and hated life. How sad, no?

I know exactly what you mean about that staring at one's eyes in a mirror thing--I've had that experience myself...I "see" my eyes, but the face I see is not the one in this lifetime...maybe then there is some truth then...the eyes being the mirrors of the soul??

Well if you're a space cadet, then I most certainly am myself..hehe

I am so sorry to hear about your mother. I dread the day I loose mine.

May I ask how old she was? Sometimes if someone has lived a long and tireing life it may be hard to wake up every morning and seize the day. Especially if she lived through the Great Depression. Those kind of life experiences can drain someone spiritually.

Its easy for me, at 25, to say I jump out of bed every morning and do 20 mins of yoga... I can only hope for that kind of enthusiasm in another 40 years.

My mother was only 75 when she died and yes did live through the Depression era...however, to be honest from the stories she told me about herself, she lived a "royal" lifestyle..grew up with maids and housekeepers..so the Depression didn't affect her...It's a very long story, but I think she was drained from living after a certain point (around and after 1986) when she realized she could no longer live her Vanderbilt lifestyle..in fact around that time she had to declare bankruptcy as she was $45,000 in debt and no way to pay up...then once her bankruptcy status was taken off her credit report (in about 7 years) what did she do.....yup, got credit cards again...When she died she was in about $25,000 in debt....to say she had been a spoiled brat all her life is an understatement...LOL--she was forever trying to impress people with her "generosity" by buying expensive gifts to friends and in effect buying people's friendships...like I said a LONG story...

Alright Pye, now you have me very interested in the life and times of your mother. This sounds like the plot line of of a Lifetime movie.

Now if you tell me she was a Pagan or a Wiccan, that would just bait the hook even more.

I would love to hear more about her, if you ever get the urge to share her story with a complete stranger. I am one of those people who would much rather listen to other peoples stories than tell my own. It sounds like your mother led a very facsinating life with soaring highs and rock bottom lows. Very interesting indeed.

Uh...nope my mother was't pagan/wiccan...She grew up a very strict Catholic, went to Catholic schools, somehow managed to marry a Methodist..LOL...When my folks got divorced she was actually bitter with her religion,and while I was baptized Catholic, I was confirmed Protestant...I don't think she wanted me to have anything to do with the Catholic religion so that's why I was Protestant----For kind of a glimpse about my mother I can't think of anything better than two articles I wrote for Associated Content...one deals with my having been her caregiver, the other about her pet hoarding problem she created...but it could give you insight where she was at, and me too..



http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/400097/who_takes_care_of_the_caregiver.html



http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/357371/living_with_a_pet_hoarder.html