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Is the Confederate Flag...racist?  email this discussion to a friend?

myLot reputation of 90/100. revellanotvanella (1957)   ranked 118 out of 3,985 in politics 3 years ago

According to my quick Wiki search Mississippi, Georgia, Tennessee and North Carolina flags are inspired by the Confederate flag.

Here is a link with image of the Confederate flag (think blue 'crossed suspenders'):

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...

Maryland is one of my neighboring states and its actually very common to see trucks with Confederate flags going across their back windows as they roar down the road and some even circle around more than once with it very visible, I can't help wondering what statement their trying to make and would rather they keep their flags at home.

Here is what wiki says:

What is now often called "The Confederate Flag" or "The Confederate Battle Flag" (actually a combination of the battle flag's colors with the Second Navy Jack's design), despite its never having historically represented the CSA as a nation, has become a widely recognized symbol of the South. It is also called the "rebel" or "Dixie" flag, and is often incorrectly referred to as the "Stars and Bars" (the actual "Stars and Bars" is the First National Flag, which used an entirely different design).

"During the first half of the 20th century the Confederate flag enjoyed renewed popularity. During World War II some U.S. military units with Southern nicknames, or made up largely of Southerners, made the flag their unofficial emblem."....

Some soldiers carried Confederate flags into battle. After the Battle of Okinawa a Confederate flag was raised over Shuri Castle by a Marine from the self-styled "Rebel Company" (Company A of the 5th Marine Regiment). It was visible for miles and was taken down after three days on the orders of General Simon B. Buckner, Jr. (son of Confederate General Simon Buckner), who stated that it was inappropriate as "Americans from all over are involved in this battle". It was replaced with the flag of the United States.[15]

"The use of the flag by soldiers came under investigation after some African-American soldiers filed complaints.[citation needed]. By the end of World War II, the use of the Confederate flag in the military was rare.[16] However, the Confederate flag continues to be flown in an unofficial manner by many soldiers. It was seen many times in Korea, Vietnam, and in the Middle East."

-------------------------

"Opponents of the Confederate flag see it as an overt symbol of racism, both for the history of racial slavery in the United States, and the establishment of Jim Crow laws by Southern states following the end of Reconstruction in late 1870s, enforcing racial segregation within state borders for nearly a century until the Civil Rights Movement. Some hate groups use the Southern Cross as one of the symbols associated with their organizations, including racist groups such as the Neo-Nazis and the Ku Klux Klan.[17] The flag is also sometimes used by separatist organizations such as the Aryan Nations. It is important to note, however, that the official flag of the Ku Klux Klan, as stated by this organization itself, is the flag of the United States of America, not the CSA battle flag...."

But...


"White southerners often see the flag as merely a symbol of southern culture, a 'country music flag' without any political or racial connotation. An example of this would be the Bocephus Rebel Flag often sold at concerts performed by country music star Hank Williams, Jr or Kevin Fowler, heavy metal band Pantera, and southern rock band Lynyrd Skynyrd."

['Flags of the Confederate States of America', wikipedia]





 

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tags:  confederate, mature content, racist, african american, choices
 
1. myLot reputation of 100/100. PeacefulWmn9 (3480)   ranked 273 out of 3,985 in politics   3 years ago

confused Hello. If my understanding and reading of history is correct, a big part of southern culture DID revolve around slavery, which was one of the main things they ceded to hold onto...the slavery. In that respect, I can see how still flying the confederate flag could be construed as rascist and unpatriotic. But I am not in a position to "judge" individuals on this. I do, however, abhor racism.

Karen

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2. myLot reputation of 82/100. spalladino (11857)   ranked 127 out of 3,985 in politics   3 years ago

I live in Florida and have to agree with the statement that many in the south see the confederate flag as nothing more than a symbol of southern pride. It's very common down here. We have a confederate flag as well as a standard American flag flying at our motorcycle shop.

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3. myLot reputation of 79/100. Rollo1 (2827)   ranked 89 out of 3,985 in politics   3 years ago

The Civil War involved more than just slavery, but it was one of the major motivating factors in the secession of southern states. That the CSA has come to represent a battle flag gives it that connection with the war and as a result, with slavery.

Although I am willing to believe that many in the south see it as simply a symbol of the southern culture and way of life, they must also be sensitive to what it may represent to African Americans.

In any case of conscience it is best to err on the side of being considerate of the feelings of the person most likely to be injured by any action. If flying the flag caused emotional injury or harm to a particular group, or was viewed as being hostile to a particular group, I myself would avoid it.

That is not to say that everyone who flies the Confederate flag does so with malice, I am sure they do not. To some it represents their home and their way of life. But I would say that probably most African Americans would be distressed by what it represents to them.


myLot reputation of 78/100. debrakcarey (2673)   ranked 138 out of 3,985 in politics  3 years ago

This post contains content of a mature nature. You must be Signed in or Registered to have the option to view this content.

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4. myLot reputation of 78/100. spicysweetie21 (1542)   ranked 360 out of 3,985 in politics   3 years ago

I think this is a tricky symbol that can be used as to either just show southern pride, but it can also be used by racists. In my own life, I have seen it in both cases. I know a guy who is a great person and loves everyone, and he lived all over the south when he was growing up, so he has it on his truck because he is proud of his background and how it is different from the "west coast" mentality.

I have also seen it used in a negative and racist way by people too, I knew a woman when I was little who had a confederate flag hanging from her house and she and no one she knew was from the south, but when my brother came around her house, she would yell at him and call him derogatory names because he is half black.

So it really depends on the circumstance in which the flag is being displayed, but I will add that when I first met the great guy who had a confederate flag on his truck, because of my past experience, I did first think that he must be racist too... I learned differently but I can still totally understand why many people are very wary about the confederate flag. I can understand both sides.


myLot reputation of 87/100. jb78000 (3486)   ranked 78 out of 3,985 in politics  3 years ago

we've got the same thing with the union jack. it's meant to be the flag of the uk but is frequently used by racist idiots

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5. myLot reputation of 83/100. xfahctor (7620)   ranked 42 out of 3,985 in politics   3 years ago

Slavery was a relatively small part of the civil war, it was the catylist, but not the cause. The war was about state's rights, federalism and america's first step towards more dominating central government. Licoln, though touted as the great liberator and champion for racial deceny, was actualy a fairly racist person himself, in fact, he didn't even want slaves remaining in the country. He was also probably one of our more "tyranical" presidents, too loosely use a term.
The Confederate flag became a symbol for the confederate states who banded together and voted for mass cessation and disolving of the contract, considered in breech by the southern states. Lets also not forget, that though the flag is often used by racist groups, it was not it's purpose, much like the shwaztika, original a pagan symbol. Both symbols that have been hijacked.
incidentaly, I'm a "yankee"


myLot reputation of 83/100. xfahctor (7620)   ranked 42 out of 3,985 in politics  3 years ago

And I just read back through that, pardon the typo's, it's late.


myLot reputation of 82/100. spalladino (11857)   ranked 127 out of 3,985 in politics  3 years ago

I will always be considered a Yankee down here in Hooterville even though I'm originally from Maryland. According to some of my Florida cracker friends, "the Mason Dixon line ain't squat" and anyone born north of Palmdale is a Yankee. Palmdale is way down here in south Florida by the way so the folks in Orlando are Yankees, too.


myLot reputation of 87/100. jb78000 (3486)   ranked 78 out of 3,985 in politics  3 years ago

irrelevant comment here. it's interesting to find out what yankee means in the us. you probably already know that the xenophobic terms for americans here is yanks whatever part they come from.


myLot reputation of 90/100. revellanotvanella (1957)   ranked 118 out of 3,985 in politics  3 years ago

very interesting stuff! thumbup


myLot reputation of 79/100. Rollo1 (2827)   ranked 89 out of 3,985 in politics  3 years ago

This post contains content of a mature nature. You must be Signed in or Registered to have the option to view this content.


myLot reputation of 87/100. jb78000 (3486)   ranked 78 out of 3,985 in politics  3 years ago

when i was working abroad i noticed a bookshop called confederate books in quito, and initially i was suspicious of it but since i and most if my students bought books there we decided to leave it alone, we thought it was just misplaced patriotism

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6. myLot reputation of 39/100. piasabird (1583)   ranked 1,562 out of 3,985 in politics   3 years ago


Look, I'm not from the south nor have I ever lived in the south. I don't know if the flag is a symbol of racism. I just know how it makes me feel when I see it and it's not a good feeling. It makes me think of slavery and the KKK and lynchings. It make sme think of Jim Crow laws and seperate drinking fountains and sitting in the back of the bus.

I'm not saying the flag itself is racist. I guess it depends on what kind of feelings it brings forth in each individual. It just gives me bad vibes though. And I think that if anyone displayed a Confederate flag around here they had better be prepared to defend themselves or at the very least be prepared for some very dirty looks from folks.

Another thing, I could see being proud of the flag if the south hadn't lost the war. But they did lose and I don't see why they want to hang on to that flag. Plus it takes me back to a sad time in history when brother fought against brother. I'm just glad that we don't see them around here much.


myLot reputation of 90/100. revellanotvanella (1957)   ranked 118 out of 3,985 in politics  3 years ago

cryIm with you happy, when these people come charging into town with their flags I feel it too


myLot reputation of 78/100. debrakcarey (2673)   ranked 138 out of 3,985 in politics  3 years ago

I understand how you feel and why you feel it. But as a southener I would like to suggest that, as has been stated here, symbols can be hijacked. I would also like to say that what it (rebel flag) means to me, my right to choose for myself, is a good quality for ALL Americans to have.

A side note..I was born in Chicago Ill. I spent a great part of my childhood in the MIssouri Ozarks...and returned there to raise my kids after my divorce. Though I am considered a Yankee by the natives here...lol... my soul is southern. The people here for the most part are not bigoted or racist...if you are a jerk no matter what color you are, you are still a jerk. In other words...they judge you by your character, not your color. BUt in Chicago, when I return there to visit, I am judged and labeled much quicker and more harshly...just for having a southern accent.

Symbols, words and attitudes change over time. :)

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7. myLot reputation of 63/100. ParaTed2k (6344)   ranked 324 out of 3,985 in politics   3 years ago

That's as much a point of contention as the Civil War itself (or the War of Northern Aggression as some of my friends in the South put it). The fact is, both sides make very compelling arguments.

The Civil War is said to have been about slavery, yet none of the events that triggered the war have anything to do with slavery at all. The same goes for arguments about whether the CSA Battle Flag is racist or not.

The image on the flag does appear in a lot of the Southern State's flags. However, the flag itself wasn't flown over many Southern State buildings until the early 60s. Some say that the flag was put over the state capital of South Carolina in reaction to the Civil Rights act of 1964.. but the flag went up in 1962.

White Supremist groups have adopted the flag, but just because some racists use it doesn't mean the flag itself is racist.

Like most symbols, the meaning is in the eye of the beholder. The CSA wasn't created because of slavery, most Southerners didn't fight for the CSA to preserve slavery and I haven't seen any reason to think that the members of Lynyrd Skynyrd, The Allman Brothers or any of the bands you mentioned are racist.

If we are going to equate the CSA with racism, then can we assume that naming Fort Lee, Fort Bragg.. or any other US Military installation named after a CSA officer is a sign of racism?


myLot reputation of 90/100. revellanotvanella (1957)   ranked 118 out of 3,985 in politics  3 years ago

that's the interesting part, I didn't know very much about the history behind the flag until now and when I would see it I'd feel a sense of confusion and bad feelings associated with it probably because of misuses of it I've seen here and there and I have seen Willie Nelson use it a lot but that man is the greatest hippie in the world, he is just awesome and I never felt ill will from him and can appreciate the mans pride--he lives that life to the fullest. I think you can tell which way someone is using it.

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8. myLot reputation of 62/100. foursox212 (175)   ranked 192 out of 3,985 in politics   3 years ago

Not to sound racist here but it's getting to the point in this country can the White people have and do anything without blacks, hispanics, indians, muslims, ect getting offended and crying foul??? I'm mean these groups have sometimes a better oppurtunities to get college education, Jobs, ect. Just look at the supreme court nominee for Obama and durring Bush years, whites need not apply!!

No matter a persons interpertation of the rebel flag many of lives were lost over that and I see nothing wrong with it. I live in Southern Pa and see more of those flags on houses and vehicles more then in Maryland and WV.


myLot reputation of 90/100. revellanotvanella (1957)   ranked 118 out of 3,985 in politics  3 years ago

Its called the freedom of speech. Not just shut up.

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9. mrrogers88 (17)   3 years ago

i live in NC and yes, i do believe its a form of racism


myLot reputation of 90/100. revellanotvanella (1957)   ranked 118 out of 3,985 in politics  3 years ago

We were actually looking into moving there last year, my childrens father went to visit and I did alot of looking around online and I found a forum called Citydata.org and I was really surprised about the many discussions that came up in Georgia, North Carolina and South Carolina about racism especially given the large population of african americans that live among those states.


mrrogers88 (17)  3 years ago

yeah its crazy.


myLot reputation of 63/100. ParaTed2k (6344)   ranked 324 out of 3,985 in politics  3 years ago

So Black people in the South who have Confederate battle flags are racist?


myLot reputation of 90/100. revellanotvanella (1957)   ranked 118 out of 3,985 in politics  3 years ago

No that racism is STILL an issue for some people, such as in the Carolina's and I have my old neighbor who I've known since I was a kid, who is from Kentucky, who jokrd to me that I shouldn't even set foot in W. Virginia (where his son lives) and then I had a friend from work tell me she was from W. Virginia and she won't dare go back there (she's african american)

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10. monicabarr (4)   ranked 3,156 out of 3,985 in politics   3 years ago

I'm not so sure that the object or image of and in itself is necessarily racist, but perhaps it's been misused to represent the ideal so often (often out of ignorance), that generally people identify the flag with racism. . .

Perhaps it just became the symbol of negativity in the public eye. . . but hey, what do I know?

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