Could you manage without your servants or daily help?  

That sounds so famliar

I'm with you there nonersays, my dream would be to have a cleaner come in for me and miraculously do all that tedious stuff for me but alas, as you say, it is pure luxury. I am though teaching my son to help around the house so that he won't grow up to be a helpless male who doesn't know how to wield an iron. Like you I'm the help too.

Thea, I'd be happy if someone would come in and just do the laundry if nothign else!

I can't wait for my son to be born and old enough for me to give chores too. - grin-

for me its the same ihave to do everything at my own and nobody is there to help.......so no housemaids

It's the same for me too, no cleaners or help. I couldn't afford to pay them even if I had the offer of one.

@ thea
I'm so glad to hear that someone is teaching their son so many young men go out there on their own into the big wide world, but keep running home to mum at every opportunity!

Well so far his fixed jobs for the last few years has been to carry all the shopping up to the house, we're upside down and the front door is upstairs. He also has to carry all the rubbish down and throw it in the bins when we drive past. I've taught him to cook a little, he's now mastered ironing, and my favourite yet, making Mama's coffee. He's in charge of the food mixer when I bake and also in charge of the grater. As yet his cleaning skills haven't kicked to the foreground but neither have mine

Hi mys, no I don't have any help but I sure wish I did, I loathe housework with a vengeance, it's all so repetitive. It's interesting though that lots of Mylotters from the East do retain actual servants though and I'd be interested to hear their point of view. One of my local friends does cleaning in the area to boost her income and the only problem she's had was with a family who moved over from a country where they did have servants and made her feel exactly like one. If someone is coming to do that for you one should at least treat them with respect. I'm happy to report that that house was dropped from her list of jobs.

Here in Italy there are many people from other countries such as Rumania, Albania, Russia and the Philippines who come here and find jobs helping in the house and/or garden. They also could have a position as a live-in help for older people, disabled or not.

hi Mys, our main immigrant population of workers is Albanian but they are barely tolerated here. Rascism is rife between Greeks and Albanians and where they can people would prefer to employ other immigrants such as Polish or Rumanian. Certainly though none would be employed as live in help as the Albanians paved the way in forming distrust amongst the Greeks as have mainly been responsible for the increase in crime in this area which was previously unheard of.

Steam ironing is a good way to open those pores MysD... good for the complexion! lol
@ thea: it's nice to hear someone say that, all people should be treated with respect

Alice, sometimes the differences between two races become too entrenched and the Mani Greeks are famous for generational feuds so their mistrust of Albanians is not going to go away any time soon. The immigration has impacted on Greek lives to the detriment of a community previously trusting and able to leave their doors unlocked.

Hi Jo, I rather thought you would, but don't you sometimes wish you didn't have to, I know I do. Apart from the inevitable cleaning up before the cleaner comes in of course

Sorry, meant to say I didn't think you would not that I thought you would,you come across as far too practical for tht.

I never think about it to tell u the truth. I have always done it just takes me longer now than it use to, lol. To twll u the truth they probably wouldn't do it to please me if i had one.

Hi Hatley, so far you're the only one with any kind of help and you don't like it. I'd certainly have no objection to someone coming in and cleaning up but I think I'd definitely miss being able to cook what I fancied when I wanted. That must really bite at your independance.

I hope that no one assumes because you're 82 that your faculties are going. When my grandma was in her nineties she still used to knit for the 'old people' which used to raise a smile.

I admire your spunk, lady. Wish u could be on your own. I'm sure u would be happier. Have a good week .

Hello smart, that sounds like a good balance, to have help but not to be totally reliant on it and especially to teach your children to be independant with household chores. The example I gave in my introduction was rather extreme but I could certainly imagine this old lady ringing her bell because perhaps her book had fallen onto the floor. Apparently the family used to dread her visits as she treated them all like servants.

Hi versio, I presume you grew up having servants around. It is good that you are able to manage without them and that must lead to appreciation for the work they actually did, maintaining a house in the heat is a difficult job. In most western countries help with a child is usually taken when the mother has to return to full time work and then usually employs a nanny or au pair to look after the child.

Hi dlr, I think this will be the typical response and was really hoping for more response from those in the East who still keep this practice. Sometimes they move from their homeland to the West and have a complete culture shock as the riches they had in their homeland, with land and servants, is not a lifestyle they can maintain once in the west.

I wouldn't be comfortable with the idea of a servant, I think you have to be brought up that way, but I sure would like to be able to afford a cleaning lady, rather than like you, have to do it all myself.

Hi yugasini, I stand corrected on memsaab, thank you. I am intrigued by your wording, do people in business call employees staff or servants, in the West they would be consided emplyees. So the servants in India are there to help the employers in the household, do you actually still call them servants or employees,

hi thea,

thanks for the comment,have a nice day

How rightly said malpoa! And even if the members of our family are very tolerant and not at all fussy[ -in my case it is so]we take it as a duty to prepare a balanced diet for all and in the process , vegetables must be chopped and so much of other work is there.To compound issues working in the kitchen makes us sweat and we get even more tired than usual.In which place are you? If it is Mumbai, please do recommend a cook for me.I am struggling to find one.

Hi malpoa, again I stand corrected on memsaab. This is fascinating that you have two people in your home to do everything except pour water. This practice has really become outdated now in the West except among the very rich. Is it the habit of many to live as you do or is it just the preserve of the very rich, just curious? I presume that the men don't help in the kitchen much there, that is male family members.

Hi thea, To be frank getting a maid can be an uphill task but it does come cheap. In our case our part time maid works for less than two hours and she works for three other families in the same building, so it is a boon to have one like that. Regarding the one who stays full time it is a bit expensive. But considering the laziness of the members here (so lazy that they would call out her name even for a glass of water inspite of the water jug right near them say less than 10 feet!!!) it seems like a necessasity. It is actually that they got so used to her service that they wouldnt be able to carry out their chores in life without her. Yes it is true to an extent that comparatively men work less. Here my husband makes breakfast once a week and helps me out when we have guests for lunch or dinner.

It sounds like hard work for your full time employee - I wonder if the lazy members you refer to are the male ones. Males here in Greece often treat their wives like that, expecting his glass to be filled, but at the same time they are just as likey to have it poured over their heads as the women do rule the house and reserve the right to nag and boss.

It sounds Malpoa as if you would prefer to have a smaller household as the impression is that the workers you have are because it is a chore for you to cater to so many, but of course I stand to be corrected if my assumption is wrong. Here in Greece the new wife is often seen as the new family servant as they often live with the in laws, and suddenly the mother in law is able to pass on many of her own jobs to the new family member. Some are nice about it but other mother in laws cause many problems.

The scenario is prettymuch the same here. About a new bride being brought and many a chore being handed down to thenew daughter inlaw. Here in my family only I am the female member. My mother in law passed away a few months back and that means a lot of responsibility to me. When she was alive, I was totally carefree, atleast regarding what to be cookes what to be bought, when and from where!!! Now handling that and deciding the menu is a herculean task sometimes. It is all because of the fussiness that other members contribute.
And it is not always that they adjust, come what may they prefer tastier food and that even at the cost of eating out quite often.
Our full time maid, I wonder why she isnt getting fed up of always being on the run...It is really exhausting to make different types of breakfast (I make my own breakfast)lunch and dinner is common to all. And always ebing called for the silliest of things such as putting on the switch, closing the door...She has been working for us since thelast nine long years. Had I been in her place, I would have long back taken retirement ha ha

Oh I feel for you malpoa, the only female in a clan of men, and lazy ones at that. Really, they can't turn a light switchI now have a much clearer understanding of why you need help otherwise it would drive you mad, and the poor woman putting up with that for nine long years - I hope you are able to show her plenty of sympathy. You'll need to keep her very sweet or you'll be the one at the beck and call constantly. How many exactly are you meant to be catering for? You and the woman who helps should start putting something in their food to make them a bit less idle.

Ha ha ha a chance for conspiracy against them...lovely...
there are actually four of us which makes 3 men. my husband, his fatherand brother.
Yes the girl will probably go next year. we are looking for a guy to marry her off. it was decided that we will take all the expenses. She is fond of decking up so all cosmetic items simply please her. Now managing that is also my duty...themen, they give suggestions...I strictly do not take orders...If there is a tone of that, I simply tell them to do it their self...hi hi

You made it sound as though there were many more than just three but I certainly get the picture. If you are likely to lose your woman I'd start training them up fast, maybe you could make them some sets of instructions to follow - here are the light switches, they operate like so. Explain way a mop needs a real man to operate it properly. Flatter them that on one makes tea as good as they do, but of course you'll need to teach them how to do it first. Good luck with them.

Three is a crowd for me here. Imagine the number of their friends dropping by everyday. When my mother in law passed away I got so upset managing them that I used to lock myself in my room and sit there...But now I have come out and started working to get them worked. My bro in law is the laziest and I have most problems with him. He is the one with most tantrums. I pity on the girl whom he is going to marry. Yes, I have already started giving them small works like buying grocery and stff like that. Cooking or even making a tea will take some time ...
And I do not intend to keep another full time maid here because there is less privacy. I do not like any outsider listening to all that is said and decided and seeing all the happenings here. I hope by the time she moves out, bro will marry and he will get things done by her. Better still if she is good enough, she will evolve him ha ha. and I see a chance of us moving out too...lets see how things work..

I can understand you desire for more privacy Malpoa, i hope you get your wish to move out so it can just be you or hubby.
I have a good friend here who does not live with his family, he lives alone, but the mother, brother and sister all live together. The mother is desperate to marry my friend off so his wife can then look after the three of them as the brother is very lazy. Now who in their right mind would marry into that little scenario to spend their life being bossed around by the family clan. It is good here that more people are starting to live independantly away from the family.
If your brother in law does marry I am curious if she must also live with her new father in law?

I dont think papa will be left to live alone. The main thing is that he wont be able to manage things on his own. He is a very emotional person and since only recently his wife died, his sons aren't going to let that too. Also here in India, people seldom live alone like in foreign countries. It has already been said indirectly that papa will stay with us. He wants all of us to stay together but I dont think it as a good option when my bro in law marries. Pa can live with both families alternatively if he so wish, also there wont be not more than 6-7miles between to homes.
Nowadays it is common for new couples to move out and live separately, and in most cases both parents are alive and they live with unmarried children. The youngest child of the family,mostly a man stays on with parents to look after them. Nowadays mst would be bride put up this condition of staying separate after marriage. Who has the patience to be bossed, do the work and then ultimately listen to hoards of complaints!!!
I wasnt aware of this custom of living with relatives existed outside India. Though I have seen in an English movie shot in Greece where in the family consisted of a husband, wife and the husband's sister-all aged people. And this heroine comes visiting them. And then I thought it could happen in movies.

Hi Malpoa, you do make me laugh, I really feel for the youngest son and his bride to be and all the complaints to come. I wonder if you knew what your brother in law was like before you accepted your husband.
In English families it is unusual for a family to live together once the children are grown and family members do not always live close, maybe 100's of miles apart. In Greece the traditional way was for the new bride to move in with hubbies family and be totally bossed around. Things have advanced more in city area but in the rural areas such as the one I live in it is only now that families start to live separately but it is still usual for the children to look after the aged parents and often still live with them, it is not just in films. In the rural area there seems to be a higher proportion of unmarried men as there were more men than women and they stay in the same area often and end up living alone. But the Greeks are totally family orientated and even if it is a duty remain very close to their families. As this area was very isolated until recent years there was much interbreeding and most of the village people are somehow related to someone else. It is still usual as well for grown children, and we're talking into their 40's here, to still live with a parent if they don't marry. But the tradition of the bride being at the beck and call of the mother in law and all living together is dying out more now as women receive better education and are not willing to tolerate living like that. Greek mothers have a huge influence over their sons.

I live in Calcutta, one of the 4 metros of India, very populated. But where we live is a planned housing colony with not much pollution also neat and clean public places. It is like a satellite city.
Calcutta is in West Bengal one of the 29 states of India and I am from a diffrent state. Born and brought up near a beach way down south, the state being called kerala. The family orientation is more or less the same and newly married couples live with their parents. The influence of mothers on their sons are quite evident is Bengal here. I have heard from many friends of mine, that mothers decide precisely everything in her sons life and she has full contol on him inspite of being married. But the girls are no less shrewd, they find some way or the other to get her husband on the contorl of her finger tips!!!
I had no clue about my bro in law's behaviour!!! He is beyond a description...He lives in a diffrent world. I can write a full fledged movie on his adventurous life!!!

Hi Malpoa, you make it sound all so interesting out there but not so disimilar to here, behind closed doors. Mothers ruling their sons, with sons often torn between wife and mother. Now I'm sure you're going to have no trouble keeping hubby under your finger tips but brother in law sounds in need of some serious scheming on your part. So I've decided you need to find a bride for him, and one that you can get along with as a sister. Can you have any say in finding his bride or is that only left to the men now his mother has passed. I think you need to start working on this before your maid marries and leaves. Or look very innocent indeed with a little accident behind the wheel whilst reversing over him

I wonder though if you feel isolated in Calcutta when your own family is far away and if you have managed to find any sort of life there beyond the home.

Ah if he were to marry, then I would have got a company...It is very boring to sit at home..Actually all kitchen work is over by 10.30 in the morning and I am free till I need to make a curry for dinner!!! So this time in between- I find it hard to spend alone. We did ask him to marry , but he is in no mood to do so, also he just completed post graduationa and is looking for a job..I sometimes secretly pray for a posting far away from home hi hi...
There isno point in me choosing a girl, I think there can be no bigger risk than that. If by any chance she turns out to be of a diffrent character altogether, then all blame will be on me. He has already been in two relations...now i do not know about the current status though I see him always on the phone hi hi

I suppose he'll just have to get married off then without your help. I have this image of you now with one face for the family as the obedient daughter in law whilst really you are the brains behind the family I think.

Papa actually doesnt give much importance to my suggestions regarding very important matters. But my husband does. And I have told him about my decision of not prefering a full time maid to him yet...I have more time for that. I do not want my kids to be so dependant and lazy. They should grow up with an active childhood and some minimum household work like taking the plates to the kitchen sink after eating, cleaning the place where they dirtied themselves...Also to iron their own clothes, polish shoes, finding the tie or lace which they themselves threw around, making an instant maagi when hungry...the very basic things...

I'm in total agreement with you there Malpoa, about the children learning to help in the house. Especially boys. I have a son and he is expected to do certain things (though often he uses the word later) but I don't want to bring him up to be a burden on some poor woman. I have often used the words 'I am not your servant' to him, maybe you should try that on your brother in law. I would never wait on a man hand and foot, after all they do have their own hands and feet.

I say tha to my husband hi hi. But he feels bad when I say so, still sometimes he doesnt shy from asking me to do silly things. My bro in law never dares to order me. here we have this respect to sister in law thing. Though sometime he shouts from his room to switch off the modem in my room.
Yes when I was a kid, my mother had to look after three of us (me and my sisters), father and then our maternal grandmother. She did help my mother alot. There were servants to do chores outside the house, like cleaning courtyard and all. But it was a huge task to get up early in the morning, make breakfast, lunch and then if she had time snacks for the evening. My father made breakfast on thursdays, that is it. imagine the hours she spent standing to make us food...There we had breakfast which were elaborates dishes and most of the takes a lot of time and patience to make. NOt once in my childhood she told me to do things , but seeing her difficulty, I sometimes did the brooming and wiping...
After marriage, we moved to this apartment where we have this neighbour who have three sons and a daughter. The man doesnt help in cooking, their daughter is made to cook dinner for the family. But there is this 8 year old youngest sn of theirs who know how to make instant noodles. So nice right? Thoug he needs some help woth the quantity of water and lighting the stove, he manages pretty welll, and that lady says that she did the mistake of not teaching the elder and eldest son any cooking and they arent interseted now to do anything. Imagine the work load she has without a help!!! But she manages well...

Well the work load sounds insane if just one person is meant to be doing all that for so many people, she should bring the children up to help. The Greek men don't like it when they know I teach my son to cook as they think it is unmanly, but the married ones do get bossed around and grumble when they have to drive their wives to the supermarket. Some of the single ones though who are older and live alone take all their meals in the taverna as they are clueless in the kitchen.

i'm glad to hear at least that your brother in law treats you with respect and does not order you around, I think you will be able to work your infuence on him and turn him into a changed man. (and marry him off)

Oh i though t thses things only existed in India!!! Ofcourse even a small help like keeping the plates in kitchen sink helps when the number of people living together are more. It does help even if it isnt so. What is the harm in keeping your own plates to kitchen , right? They should know the pain we take in cooking and to get what- the comments like had you added that it would have been tastier??? If they know how laborious it is, they will think twice before making remarks. Atlest keep mum about something not very good also helps, right?

100% with you on that one Malpoa, I once had someone in my kitchen telling me I was cooking something the wrong way, well get on with yourself then you idle baggage would be my response. The simple solution to men who criticise ones cooking is let them get on with it, after all it's bound to be so deliciousAnd they can clean up after as well.

It is very easy to just sit, eat and then criticise. My father in law on most occassions keep mum if he doesnt like something. But he gives good remarks when something is tasty. My husband and bro in law refuse to eat if it isnt of their taste, and ask for omlette as a substitute. So in a way having cook will increase the waste of food, normally I try eating more so that I need to waste less hi hi

Thank you once again Thea...Happy to get another one!!!

You certainly gave me a real insight here into how things are with servants and rather broke the stereotype idea I had.

Yes, things are a lot diffrent and more complicated in the inside than if one looks from the outside...You have to get into this to know what is actually going on...It is a diffrent world altogether...

Hi kalav, I think I am beginning to understand more about this, I don't consider that I buy pre packaged food here but the chicken is sold ready to cook, not with feathers and head etc, is this how you mean. We have an electric washing machine, is it perhaps that you still do not have this type of thing? What is the cooking method, is it not a modern cooker or is it still done in a traditional way? On first reading I thought I do all those things myslef, washing, cooking, preparing meals, paying bills (not on line), but maybe each of these tasks for you is more ardous because of using traditional methods, I hope that you will enlighten me. Certainly I can do all those things, plus study, use the computer, look after my child, but have never known another way.

There is one important thing thea .In our place, first of all, the maids would not be as expensive as they are in the west.Even people who do not fall under the very rich category, even those who are of the upper middle class variety have this habit of hiring maids for washing and cleaning.People who are slightly more affluent hire a cook too[ this is a luxury and the slightly less affluent cannot afford this]. As far as cooking methods go, we do have a gas stove at home, a mixie, a grinder,[unlike in olden days when the spices were hand ground on stone mixies and grinders.]Washing machine, air conditioner are also owned by the upper middle class people.
We do not eat non vegetarian and so I cannot tell you anything about chicken and meat, because I do not know how laborious htese preparations would get.Otherwise, in many houses males do not help. When a man helps in the kitchen by just lifting some vessels to the table, it is considered a luxury. However, there are very considerate men who do this too.Times are changing.THere are men who can cook too.But, basically, we do not expect a thing from our men.In my case, If I need vegetables I have to get them.Initially, I used to go out and lift bags filled with vegetables once in three days or so.I found this very tedious because I would have to walk some distance and get things and my shoulders would ache. Now, I have them delivered at home because I telephone the vendor and he delivers them home.I do find time for myself because I can work a bit fast and so I manage. But apart from cooking and keeping things in their places, the house needs to be swept[ours is a heavily dusty place] and the floor needs to be mopped daily with clean water and disinfectant. As I am a person who cannot do all this single handedly, I am totally down and out without servants.
If the men could not afford this cost of labour, then in such houses women do all the work themselves.Poor things! Thankfully I can afford household help.
Hope the sceneario is clearer now. The prime theme is that labor is broadly cheaper than in the west.

Hi kalav, thank you for explaining the situation so succinctly. So basically it falls down to economics and once the people who are servants for the richer can obtain a better income from another source of work, either the richer will have to pay much more for these services within the home, or do without. The situation seems to be on a par with England before the time of Indian independence when many of the people who previously worked in service were able to find higher paid jobs without being in servitude and only the very rich would keep up the tradition of servants. I expect that you will see these changes too in future years so it would be good to know how your house is kept in case it happens sooner rather than later and you have to take on these ardous tasks yourself. I think that in the Western countries which have been industrialised longer and women are used to being more independant outside the home, that men have been forced to help more within the home, so what once would have not been considered perhaps fifty years ago, of a man actually helping, has now had to change. There still remain many idle men in the West who expect to be waited on hand and foot by their wives, but the modern thinking men do accept they need to help in the house but still need to be told often the obvious like pick your own dirty clothes up from the floor.