Cash for clunkers... Not a good move....cheated..They were CHEATED!!!
By moondancer
@moondancer (7431)
United States
September 20, 2009 9:16am CST
Okay I was going to write something about this and point out that the government had people trade in automobiles that were in perfect running order. They got supposedly $4500. for trade. The problem I had with this is the people trading good car and trucks in and having a payment to make on a new one. THEIR OTHER VEHICLE was liked paid for in full!
I saw a whole vacant lot with the autos traded in here, they had NOT FOR SALE ...CFC (cash for clunkers) on the windshields.
They took all of the vehicles to the crusher to be crushed! They only got at the most $300 and many where just $75 for each vehicle.
Why they did not take these vehicles and sell them to low income and people not working that could get the money to buy transportation because THEY NEEDED IT, I just do not know.
That would have put more money back into the government til. They could have sold these cars for $1000 or a little more. But making sure by checking the income of the people buying if they really needed the vehicle or not.
Not for selling to someone wanting to make a profit on them by resale of the vehicle.
I'm appalled at the waste!
I got an email that is interesting and true. Please read this. If you are as upset as I am, then lets all write letters to our state representatives.
PLEASE take the time to read this, and go slow and stay with the math............I'm sure glad I didn't trade in a CASH FOR CLUNKER car. No wonder the gov't put another $2 billion in the "second" month. 1 billion the first month, 2 billion the second month..........ha ha ha When the payments start coming in, they'll make tons of money................
GOOD MORNING AMERICA....
The Obama Stragety
It's way worse than that. Ignore all the gas crap and just look at how the stupid car buyer got taken to the cleaners:
If you traded in a clunker worth $3500, you get $4500 off for an apparent "savings" of $1000.
However, you have to pay taxes on the $4500 come April 15th (something that no auto dealer will tell you). If you are in the 30% tax bracket, you will pay $1350 on that $4500.
So, rather than save $1000, you actually pay an extra $350 to the feds. In addition, you traded in a car that was most likely paid for. Now you have 4 or 5 years of payments on a car that you did not need, that was costing you less to run than the payments that you will now be making.
But wait, it gets even better: you also got ripped off by the dealer.
For example, every dealer here in LA was selling the Ford Focus with all the goodies including A/C, auto transmission, power windows, etc for $12,500 the month before the "cash for clunkers" program started.
When "cash for clunkers" came along, they stopped discounting them and instead sold them at the list price of $15,500. So, you paid $3000 more than you would have the month before. (Honda, Toyota , and Kia played the same list price game that Ford and Chevy did).
So lets do the final tally here:
You traded in a car worth: $3500
You got a discount of: $4500
---------
Net so far +$1000
But you have to pay: $1350 in taxes on the $4500
--------
And you paid: $3000 more than the car was selling for the month before
----------
Net -$3350
We could also add in the additional taxes (sales tax, state tax, etc.) on the extra $3000 that you paid for the car along with the 5 years of interest on the car loan but lets just stop here.
So who actually made out on the deal? The feds collected taxes on the car along with taxes on the $4500 they "gave" you. The car dealers made an extra $3000 or more on every car they sold along with the kickbacks from the manufacturers and the loan companies. The manufacturers got to dump lots of cars they could not give away the month before. And the poor stupid consumer got saddled with even more debt that they cannot afford.
Obama and his band of merry men convinced Joe consumer that he was getting $4500 in "free" money from the "government" when in fact Joe was giving away his $3500 car and paying an additional $3350 for the privilege.
Does this all not make you angry? It does me!!!
I apologize for the long discussion, but I hope you took it serious and read at least most of it.
Thank you in advance for responses.
2 people like this
15 responses
@tdemex (3540)
• United States
20 Sep 09
You are adamant about this and I'm not trying to change your opinion! But i have to look at it from another prospective. The plan was to get better vehicles with higher gas mileage on the roads, so if they returned the vehicles that were traded in that would defeat the purpose. I'm currently laid off from the a manufacturing job related to the auto industry. I'm from Detroit and have many friends in the same boat! I do keep in touch with them and we all network as much as possible! This move was a real shot in the arm for Detroit as well as the auto industry! They added second shifts opened a couple of plants that were shut down, and gave some workers some much needed overtime! The people who got new vehicles took advantage of the offer and it was their decision to do so! They should do their homework on the monetary benefits! Like the home buyers that buy a home they can barely afford with an adjustable rate mortgage! Buyer beware is a term most people have never heard of but it used to be widely used while I grew up! To bad it's forgotten now a days! Thanks!
tdemex
tdemex1 person likes this
@moondancer (7431)
• United States
20 Sep 09
td, I agree with you. The email I received was just an eye opener to people to hopefully get them to stop and think before doing next time.
I was really mainly concerned myself about the people that have no vehicles and that means no way to work. They had to sell their vehicle because of the payment and did not even have one to trade in for the CFC's thing.
I was concerned and still am that the government has these cars and I seen many of them, they were not all gas wasting big autos. Someone that really needed an auto could have bought that one that someone else turned in at an affordable rate and had a good car, not having them all crushed.
They could have called this something else or said it was being done to push the economy up. You know what I'm saying.
Yes, getting gas eating autos off the road is a wonderful thing.
But you have many people without a decent auto or no auto at all.
Other people could have gotten rid of a big auto and got something cheaper and a little better on gas or a smaller vehicle.
I just don't like waste!! And we (the people that pay taxes..you and me) had to fork out all of this money which is fine..I don't have a problem with that...the problem I have is crushing these autos and people that need them not being able to take advantage of this turn around if you would like to call it that.
This is my main objection as far as I am concerned.
It's wonderful that the auto plants opened back up and more autos are being made. I love that and people went back to work, I love that.
It's the waste. And some people don't know a good or bad deal for them if it slaps them in the face. management and things that would be good for them they don't know or understand.
1 person likes this
@tdemex (3540)
• United States
20 Sep 09
Reminds me of a story! I built the assembly line for the Aztek vehicle in Mexico. When we finally got the vehicle built and everything was perfect we started running production! They sent 5 of the vehicles to Michigan for further testing, we ran 274 vehicles and got a call to stop everything?? When they did a rear end crash, 2 of the gas tanks fell out! One caught fire! So we stop for a week and they did a retro fit on the strap that held the tank in place! They scraped the 274 vehicles we made??? Everything tires and all. they had great Bose speakers systems in them and we couldn't have anything off of them! It was a legal issue! Go Figure, t----
@artistry (4151)
• United States
21 Sep 09
...Hi moondancer,I am sure your points are valid, but what the government set out to do, it did. That was to increase sales for the auto companies and get some of the gas guzzlers off the road. There are negatives and positives to most actions. Over all I think the car companies increased sales, one I think didn't. Now they are going to do the same thing with appliances, washing machines, etc. I refuse to get my nerves in a bind when people are adults and can make choices for themselves. There are so many things in our lives that personally affect us. These things I feel are so macro, that they are basically out of our control, so why worry. Now if your beef is with Obama, then I have to ask you, were you satisfied with the Cheney merry men, who just happened to help get us into this mess that the Obama merry men are trying to get us out of? Take care. Remember life is short, enjoy while you can, tomorrow is not promised.
1 person likes this
@moondancer (7431)
• United States
21 Sep 09
Yes, I do know what their intention was. But they also want people to buy new cars that they can not really afford right now. I'd love to have a hybrid car or one that gets lots of gas mileage. The fact is that this really only helped some of the auto makers, some workers, and some auto dealers. I think that is great. It cost us a lot of money in the long run.
Now if they had sent everyone that said they wanted to buy a new vehicle a check with one stipulation on it that it could only be used for a new car of a certain type then that might have worked better than this thing they did and how they did it., but just how many people can afford a new car right now?
The auto makers are making new cars, hopefully ones that get better mileage, but just how many people can afford a new car right now?
I'm not saying that any plan would have been perfect. But the one they did was not for sure.
The things in these autos, stereos, engines, parts, etc. could have been sold to someone that could make use of them.
Or they could have let people buy the smaller ones that were in good shape...if they were not going to resale the auto and they really needed one. People that are low income. Or need an auto for work or to get around.
@bobmnu (8157)
• United States
24 Sep 09
We spent $3,000,000.000.00 (billion) plus $20 some billion to bail out the auto unions. In effect President Obama rewarded his supporters. Cash for Klunkers was a great failure because most of the people who purchased cares would have purchased them in the next few months. There was a spike in care sales and now they are not selling new cars and many dealers have yet to be paid for the clunkers by the government.
@moondancer (7431)
• United States
24 Sep 09
yes, it's so sad is it not, that only a few plants partially opened back up and they brought back only part of their employees and they even gave those over time instead of bringing back more people to work. I know these needed the over time...but more needed work(their jobs back) and all of that money gone as well as all of the autos that were taken in this fiasco...I saw many autos that were not big gas guzzlers, they were mid sized autos..in very good shape and in running order. These could have been sold for $500 to $1000 and got back some of that money that was given out(supposedly given. Heck the auto dealers could have held that money until they got was was promised to them..lol.
@dorannmwin (36392)
• United States
20 Sep 09
You do have a very good point about the fact that many people did trade in cars that were in perfectly good running order and cars that were costing the citizens very little money to run. Also, I know that you are right about the car dealerships raising the prices of the car in light of the Cash for Clunkers deal. It really was a raw deal for so many people. Yes, I'd like to have a new car. Yes, I'd love to have a more fuel efficient car, but the idea of trading in my car that ran perfectly fine for this deal was just not for me. Why fix something that isn't broken. Our paid off 2003 and 1995 cars are costing us very little. Yes, they may not have the highest fuel efficiency that is available, but for as little as we actually drive, is it really hurting us, no!! What would have hurt us is to have a payment on a new car. To have to pay the taxes and fees on a new car.
I think there were a lot of people that looked at Cash for Clunkers as an opportunity to get a new car for a discounted price and for this I am angry that these people in truth got ripped off.
1 person likes this
@moondancer (7431)
• United States
20 Sep 09
Yes, for this too I am upset. Many people don't know how to analyse things to know if it's to their advantage or not. It sounded like a good deal. They even said this amount saved ON TOP of Dealer discounts, but that's not how it worked at all.
And the CRC autos that were traded in...a waste a sad waste that they went to crushers!!! Someone that needed those autos could have been able to afford to have something decent to drive.
@sender621 (14889)
• United States
20 Sep 09
Cash for clunkers. Just the thought of it sounds like someone getting ripped off. Car dealers make it sound like a golden opportunity. Just can't be beat. You think you've found the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Then you find out the deal you got could have been better. The little guy always seems to get it in the end!
1 person likes this
@moondancer (7431)
• United States
20 Sep 09
Yes, they do and the ones that are struggling will keep on struggling. They can not get ahead no matter what because something will keep them down or knock them back down when they start getting up.
It's a shame really.
Welcome to the lot. I hope you enjoy being here.
@XanderDDS (62)
• United States
20 Sep 09
Any idea how many people actually went through with 'cash for clunkers' and turned in their car?
@Savvynlady (3684)
• United States
21 Sep 09
There was a dealership that offered $2000 on a car that haven't moved in over a year. I really need a new one and all. which also reminds me of the tax credit they offering to new homeowners. Makes me wonder if all this credit ain't nothing but to bite back at you at tax time.
@moondancer (7431)
• United States
21 Sep 09
For the person that had an auto that did not run well or was in bad shape and if they could afford the trade and the payments along with the interests then this was a great deal! But many traded in a really good auto, not all of them large nor bad gas hogs. I saw a bunch of them in town. A whole block full of them sitting side by side. That was the ones from just one auto dealer.
@elmiko (6630)
• United States
20 Sep 09
yeah thats very scummy of businesses to raise the prices on the vehicles $3,000 dollars extra right after the cash for clunkers programs starts. it doesn't mean all
the businesses do that though. also though people need to do their research who got
cash for clunkers money to buy vehicles so they don't get ripped off by crooks like this. so the buyers also should have accountability for what there spending. as far you getting angry about the vehicles going to the crushers rather than selling them to low income people who need them than heres what you need to understand. cash for clunkers was an agreements between auto dealerships and the government to get gas guzzling vehicles off the road. the cash for clunkers program was created to stop wasteing so much fuel and lower the air pollution. in the long run this is much better than making any kind of profit because it helps the environment. a secondary effect is it also saves people money on fuel costs. in reality it stops excess waste environmentally and financially. the program doesn't sound good unless you think about its long term intentions.
@moondancer (7431)
• United States
20 Sep 09
Thinking about it in this light is okay. But not all autos where "gas guzzling" I have an F-250 that get way better mileage than my daughters small mini van or my husbands smaller truck.
My truck gets better mileage than some other cars I know of. It is a bit better than a midsized car I know about.
It all depends on how well the up keep is managed on your vehicle. I guess. I always do regular maintenance as well as other things. Making sure the fuel injection is clean and other things.
I've seen several 4 cylinders that get worse mileage than I do.
That was the reason they gave for the stimulus, so they could give one..to help the economy and to help the environment.
No matter what reason is given the fact is that he would be talked about for what was done either way. The waste is still a major flaw in the way it was done.
@Bethany1202 (3431)
• United States
21 Sep 09
I am glad they are trying to have more gas-efficient vehicles on the road, but it really is a shame how much waste was created from this. Waste is not good for the environment, either. Of course, hopefully they did recycle the scrap metal... I don't know.
I have mixed feelings about the CFC program, and several other government programs as well. I will leave it at that.
@moondancer (7431)
• United States
21 Sep 09
You are right, they talk about the waste in land fields and everywhere and they added to it, tremdously! For the good it did, I commend it..but it did more harm than good.
@mcelhenney (481)
• United States
21 Sep 09
I don't understand why people fall for that kind of thing anyway..They should know better..You do not get anything "free" from the government.It seems to me that they are just trying to get people to go into debt..All I can say is ""BUYER BEWARE"" when you hear something that you think is going to save you money..They want you to refinance your home mortgage too..All they want is for people to go further and further in debt..I would never fall for anything like that,,I can not afford to,even if I could I would not do it..They are not giving you anything that is not going to cost you more in the long run...If it seems to good to be true then more often than not it is..
@moondancer (7431)
• United States
21 Sep 09
I know mc, but there are people out there that don't really know whats good for them they just do not know how to figure these things out. They get advice from others or listen to what they are told, if they are told this is a good t thing then they think it is. It's sad really, that's how many people are duped to buy this or that.
You and I and many others know to weight the good with the bad and know the difference...I know some of these people that must depend on others for telling them what is best.
The people thought this a good deal. For a few it was! The ones that had vehicles that were not worth much and actually could afford the interests and the payments on a new auto.
It helped most but not all of the auto sales businesses and the auto makers.
But just how many people do you know that can go out and buy a "new auto"?
I know many that can, but just as many if not more that can not!
@tamarafireheart (15384)
•
20 Sep 09
Hi Moondancer,
Our goverment have not done that yet and I don't think it will catch on here, bugt i do that that is the one of te biggest scam by the goverment to their own people of the country, the goverment only think of themselves and are not interested in anybody who really need a car, they will never sell anyting off cheap to help anyone. That is the saddest part, they are just too greedy.
Tamara
@moondancer (7431)
• United States
20 Sep 09
Yes, I do agree. The sad thing is they will keep raising our taxes on income and everything to finance their flagrant spending.
@cynthiann (18612)
• Jamaica
21 Sep 09
I don't know the details and have not heard of this but on the face of it, it looks like a total rip off to me.
@moondancer (7431)
• United States
21 Sep 09
This is something that was implimented without much thinking it through. The ramifications will be huge and not in a good way.
@rosepedal64 (4188)
• United States
20 Sep 09
I was following the deals when they was going on. I too felt like that it wasn't such a good ideal for some people. While have another payment if your not sure if you can make it..As far as why they took them to the crusher, was suspose to be for the auto factories to be able to produce more vechicles which in return would make more jobs for people. Im not sure if this has taken place yet. I guess we will see what the outcome is really going to be from this method..I didn't bite into it. I still have my vechicle...Great discussion..Have a nice sunday....
@moondancer (7431)
• United States
20 Sep 09
Thanks rose, it's just been bothering me ever since I saw all of those good some new vehicles or practically new ones and they were being crushed.
I'm all for the auto workers having their jobs back and the plants opening back up. They did in Detroit and that is great! I just think that more people including us(the government could have made out better if the cars that were traded in were sold for even $1000. That sure beats what the government is getting back from the crusher places in many cases just $75 to $125 for each auto.
The auto makers will sell new cars, with making what the people need and want. People WILL BUY new vehicles if they can afford them no matter what.
The extra money could have even went to the auto makers or half tot he government to get back a large portion of what went out and half to the auto makers and they would have more money to do upgrades, make better fuel efficient autos and hire back the people.
Everyone could have won, not just certain people. You know what I mean?
@gracefuldove (1668)
• Malaysia
21 Sep 09
Wow, you have got it all worked out, haven't you? We here in Malaysia also have a scheme such as that. Bring an old car in working order and you can trade it in for a new car. The car you brought in will be priced at RM5000. This is equivalent to USD1,500. I think they do up the car and sell it to make some profit. As for us, we get saddled with a new bank loan and so have to pay through our noses for about 9 years. So, by the time you have paid fully for that car, it is another junk!
@moondancer (7431)
• United States
21 Sep 09
We also, before all of this happened had a few times a year the push, pull, or drag a vehicle in for trade. In essence this was better than the CRC.
@momtrying2makeit (3270)
• United States
20 Sep 09
I see what you are saying here. I guess that is a risk people were taking and it reminds me of this saying. Be careful what you ask for. I also remember this saying as well READ EVERYTHING before you sign your name to it. I agree with you about selling the cars to people or giving them to people that need them. That would have been really nice but you know it seems like in the times we live in it is a dog eat dog world which to me is sad. 
Take care and thanks for sharing your thoughts on this and happy mylotting to you as well. 
Take care and thanks for sharing your thoughts on this and happy mylotting to you as well. @moondancer (7431)
• United States
20 Sep 09
As I mentioned to td, some people don't know what's good for them. If good or bad slaps them they don't even know then. They just know what they are told and that's all they understand.
