First Democrat Since Civil War Wins New York 23rd!!!
By anniepa
@anniepa (27955)
United States
November 3, 2009 11:36pm CST
So much for the power of Sarah Palin and the rest of the far right tea party crowd! They managed to push the GOP nominee out of the race and they thought they had it made then with their Conservative Party candidate Doug Hoffman, who it just so happened doesn't even LIVE within the district and was found in an interview to be NOT at all knowledgeable about it.
Some of the right-wing pundits are spinning the results of tonights' races as horrible news for President Obama and the Democrats and great news for the conservative wing of the GOP but I have to respectfully disagree. The truth is, NO candidate who ran as an ultra-conservative won tonight. Bob McDonnell, now Virginia's governor-elect, may have his sexist and homophobic thesis in his past but he ran as a moderate and didn't go negative, unlike his opponent. The winner in the New Jersey Governor's race is also a moderate and, from what I've heard, ran a clean and positive campaign was well.
The Democrats didn't have good candidates for the two gubernatorial races they lost, simple as that! Corzine wasn't very popular, my own very liberal brother isn't too crazy about him, and Virginia's Creigh Deeds was just a bad candidate all the way around. There's also that little thing known as history in Virginia; call it coincidence if you'd like but it's been over 30 years that candidate from the opposite party of the President has been elected governor of that state.
Exit polls in both Virginia and New Jersey showed that only one out of five voters said their vote had anything at all to do with the President and out of that half said it affected them positively and half said negatively. Basically, there was a low turnout and those who supported Obama in 2008 failed to show up this year, something that isn't at all surprising. Off-year elections rarely do have very good turnouts.
OK, now it's your turn to put the spin on it!
Annie
2 people like this
11 responses
@Troublegum (641)
• United States
4 Nov 09
I've given up trying to spin results. At the end of the day people elected who they elected and following the trends of who won what as an indicator of who wins next time is kind of useless because generally it is the actions of the person that influence the next elextion most.
By way of example, GW Bush getting two wins in a row didn't trend us toward the conservatives, what eneded up happening is that his international policy ticked off the left and his domestic policy ticked off the right, and his actions ended up having a ripple effect through the next election cycle because the left was fired up against him and the right wasn't fire up for him.
I don't know much about NY23 other than the the fact that the GOP sunk a huge amount of cash into a very left leaning republican who turned out to be a democrat, and a conservitive guy without the support of his party gave them a run for their money. To me if I had to spin this I would say we are seeing a move away from the leadership of BOTH parties.
2 people like this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
6 Nov 09
I sincerely hope we DO see an emergence of other parties in the near future. I think that's the only way we'll get TRUE campaign finance reform while at the same time to get GOOD third party candidates we'll need reform otherwise we'll just end up with independently wealthy, out of touch candidates who don't happen to be either Democrats or Republicans and what will we gain from that?
Annie
@Troublegum (641)
• United States
7 Nov 09
Unfortunately third parties are not really viable in our system, but what we are seeing is that in general the populus is more conservative than the governing parties. The Liberals are not quite as liberal as the Obama/Reed/Palosi trio and the Conservatives are more conservative than McCain and most of the other Republicans that seem to rise to the surface. I think we are about to witness a purging from both parties where the leaders more accurately represent the people. Whichever party can get their purge straightened out first will gain/remain in control.
1 person likes this
@ZephyrSun (7381)
• United States
4 Nov 09
I really haven't been watching this race all that closely, I read where Palin was helping the conservative and the Republican that dropped out was endorsing the Democrat. That must be a very conservative area because the Civil War was so long ago LOL
2 people like this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
6 Nov 09
Apparently the district had been "trending to the left" in recent years. Did you notice how the conservatives are sssoooo angry that Scozzafava dropped out and backed the Democrat, but if a Democrat backs a Republican (like Lieberman for McCain) he's just following his conscience?
Annie
@ZephyrSun (7381)
• United States
6 Nov 09
Good for my guy, not for your guy LOL
1 person likes this
@irisheyes (4370)
• United States
6 Nov 09
For the first time in over 100 years, the Republicans do not have a local majority in Radnor Township, Pennsylvania. It was an historic election here. Now, the entire western Philadelphia suburban area know as the Main Line is solid Democrat. The first rift came in the Kennedy election when the largely Catholic borough of Narberth went Democrat and totally shocked the area. It wasn't until Clinton carried Lower Merion and Haverford townships that the Democrats made major strides. Radnor township went Democrat for Obama but remained Republican locally until Tuesday. The western suburbs of Philly are now as blue as Philadelphia itself.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
6 Nov 09
In my local area the Democrats won almost everything. In some of the small towns there weren't any Republicans at all on their town councils and other local offices. I THINK our state is BLUE TO STAY...lol!!! I think in a way we can still thank Rick Santorum for that.
Annie
@xfahctor (14113)
• Lancaster, New Hampshire
4 Nov 09
WOw, you really don't get it do you. This is not the story out of this at all. Here is the story in this....
A third party candidate for Congress knocks one major party entirely out of the face and by a very narow margin almost over takes the other major party. And all this after a very late entery in to the race, with not even a very suave or experienced candidate. THAT is what happened in New York yesterday annie, The story isn't about Palin, or Obama, or, sorry, even Democrats, it's an omen for both parties in next years congressional elections. And I can't helpbut wonder what would have happened had the 6% or so that went to a candidate that dropped out the day before, many of which may have been absentee ballots, before she dropped out.
**Special note**
The people of New Yorks 23rd district didn't really have a choice in this race in the beginning anyway before the conservative party. The NY state republican party picked a democrat to run for them. They had a Democrat, or a Demcrat to choose from, albight one of those Democrats had an R next to their name.
1 person likes this
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
5 Nov 09
You know, I still would have rooted for the third party even if it were some Green candidate just to get someone in there that wasn't beholden to a big party. As you said though, it was two democrats and one had an R next to her name. She proved that by endorsing a democrat.
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
6 Nov 09
Taskr, to you first - "As you said though, it was two democrats and one had an R next to her name. She proved that by endorsing a democrat." Tell me AGAIN what you think of Joe Lieberman and his endorsement of McCain and his promise to filibuster a vote on health care reform as well as to help some Republicans campaign next year. Or is that "different"?
Now to X - "Here is the story in this.... A third party candidate for Congress knocks one major party entirely out of the face and by a very narrow margin almost over takes the other major party. And all this after a very late entry in to the race, with not even a very suave or experienced candidate. THAT is what happened in New York yesterday annie..."...NOT QUITE!! You make it seem as if there were a totally unknown third party candidate who SINGLEHANDEDLY knocked the Republican out of the race. That is NOT what happened at all and you know it! Had it not been for first Palin's endorsement (on Facebook of all things!) then the other wingnuts jumping into the fray we'd have heard very little about this race and Scozzafava probably would have won.
Annie
@Troublegum (641)
• United States
7 Nov 09
Glad the wingnuts jumped in. Because as it turns out the wignuts are the majority in our country who are sick of political calculations designed for political victory rather than for the good of the people that the politicians represent.
Had Scazafava won it would have proved that political calculation works for maintaining party prowis. The election turning on its head shows that if you reject the will of the people their is a political price to pay.
@artistry (4151)
• United States
5 Nov 09
...Hi annie, This is the race people should be analyzing. It looks as if the White
House planned this from the time they took the moderate Republican Congressman from the district, and gave him a position in the administration. Although I'm sure they didn't, but how strange. They kicked the Republican woman out, she then endorsed the Democrat, and you find out that the Conservative guy the Republicans favored, knew nothing about the district he was running to represent and didn't even live there, which should have disqualified him. Leaving the Democrat to dance on into the seat, I love it. Amazing these games people play, now there will be some kind of redistricting where the Democrat will supposedly have the seat forever, however
that is going to work. Interesting to say the least. Take it easy.
1 person likes this
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
5 Nov 09
"Although I'm sure they didn't, but how strange."
No, the White House knew exactly what they were doing. Obama did his best to get Republicans in his administration that would leave openings for democrats to fill. It's not uncommon and I thought it was common knowledge that this was his goal. As for the conservative not living in or knowing the district, that never bothered democrats when Hillary did it to get her senate seat.
@artistry (4151)
• United States
5 Nov 09
.... Taskra, I hope I spelled your name correctly, I didn't write it down, apologies if wrong. The only thing wrong with that plan is that the district is heavily Republican, as I understand it, so how in the world would a Democrat be expected to win?? Doesn't make any sense.
1 person likes this
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
4 Nov 09
I guess Hillary made it chic to not be from the district in which you run. ;~D
All the pre-election rhetoric aside, it comes as no surprise to me that the Democrat won here. The Republican vote was always mostly behind Hoffman (RNC backing aside), but the Democrat vote was split between the two liberals in the race. Scozzafava dropping out made it so everyone left of center had one candidate to back.
It is great to see this much interest in such a low priority election though.
@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
4 Nov 09
It should also be pointed out that, even after the double teaming and him being pretty much an unknown, Hoffman only lost by 3%... pretty pathetic for the Rs and the Ds.
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
7 Nov 09
Well, Ted, I get your point but "carpetbagging" has been a fairly common occurrence, hasn't it? At least Hillary DID establish residence within the state of New York, which was all she was required to do, and apparently enough residents of the state to elect her didn't mind that she hadn't lived there very long. I think Elizabeth Dole did something similar; her husband lost a Presidential election and left office as a Senator from Kansas and she runs for the Senate representing North Carolina!
Now, tell me, who had ever even HEARD of HOffman before Palin's endorsement?
Annie
1 person likes this
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
19 Nov 09
Just an FYI Annie, the claim that he's the first democrat to win the NY 23rd since the civil war has been proven false. From 1979 to 1993 the NY 23rd was represented by democrats. I'm not sure why this lie started or why it took so long for anyone to fact check it, but either way, it was just bogus.
The last Democrat to represent the NY 23rd was Michael R. McNulty from 1989 to 1993. Before that it was represented by Democrat Samuel S. Stratton from 1983-1989. Before that the NY 23rd was represented by Democrat Peter A. Peyser from 1979-1983.
@Taskr36 (13963)
• United States
4 Nov 09
I think it's funny how the New York 23rd is such a big deal to you while you act as though the other races were meaningless. I guess a race only means something if a democrat wins it.
I think it's unfortunate that an independent didn't get the win with the New York 23rd. Frankly, I'd rather Owens win than the fake republican that the GOP wasted over $900,000 promoting.
I also think it's funny that you mock the power of Sarah Palin to get people elected, when everyone that Obama just stooped for failed miserably. I'd say that is a "so much for the power of Obama and the far left socialist crowd". Aside from Owens, this was a clean sweep of democrats losing elections.
Sure, it's an off year, but New Jersey is a far left state so it's still a pretty big deal that the incumbent democrat lost so bad. I watched Obama campaign for him and it was pathetic. Obama was claiming Corzine needed a chance to "clean up the mess". I guess Obama was too stupid to realize that Corzine was the incumbent. The "mess" happened on his watch.
1 person likes this
@anniepa (27955)
• United States
6 Nov 09
Rose, in the two races that sent someone to Washington Democrats were elected!
Taskr, I didn't say any particular race was or was NOT a big deal to me. You're wrong about Owens being the only Democrat to win! Were you unaware of the special Congressional race in a conservative California district which was won by a Democrat? If the GOP expected to get a jump on regaining power in the House they must be quite disappointed. Regarding Palin, the two Republicans who won had turned down her offers of stomping for them. What does THAT tell you...lol?
"...so much for the power of Obama and the far left socialist crowd"...
Hmmm, isn't it interesting that the Democrat candidate for Virginia governor, Creigh Deeds, had vowed to opt out of any public option that may get passed in health care reform? I think the President may have helped Corzine a little bit, not enough but somewhat just the same since he was trailing by 30 points in the summer and came back to within single digits. He wasn't very popular, my own VERY liberal brother lives in NJ and isn't at all impressed with him but the "mess" the state's in has existed for quite some time, it isn't ALL Corzine's doing!
Annie
@Rollo1 (16676)
• Boston, Massachusetts
4 Nov 09
I am still reeling from your spin which I guess amounts to saying that the Democrats who didn't win were poor candidates with ineffective campaign strategy and the ones who did win were simply better than the other guy and even if a lot of Democrats lost it doesn't mean that people didn't agree with them, just not enough liberals vote during an off-year election. Well, guess that's their loss then, huh?
A third party, conservative candidate took 45% of the vote. That's a real number. Had Scozzafava endorsed the conservative candidate, he would have probably won. She threw some votes over to Owens with her endorsement. It's unconscionable for anyone to endorse one candidate over another because of a personal temper tantrum, but what can you do?
It's nice that you can have one win in the face of all the other losses. Oh, I know, they don't mean anything. The fact that Obama campaigned heavily for the loser in NJ means nothing. In fact, nothing means anything and in the world of politics, almost anything can mean nothing.
Better gear up. You're going to have a lot of losses to spin in 2010.
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
4 Nov 09
"Democrats who didn't win were poor candidates with ineffective campaign strategy and the ones who did win were simply better than the other guy and even if a lot of Democrats lost it doesn't mean that people didn't agree with them, just not enough liberals vote during an off-year election."
Yep. That's the meat of it.
I don't know about anyone else, but I like anniep and her discussions.
Maybe there are more out there, but I've yet to find anyone else who can actually START the discussion by crafting the perfect catch-22. lmao ... That's usually reserved for rebuttal. Oh, and don't forget still adding a Palin shot in there.
I guess you could use the whole "kickin' 'em while they're down" thing, but seeing as no one's really down to kick, that doesn't make a whole lot of sense either.
Until I find logic in it, I just use my 
option.
option.@artistry (4151)
• United States
5 Nov 09
.... so do I like annie's discussions. She's states things straight up with the facts, man, just the facts, then you take your crayons and color it from there. If you color outside the lines, she replies and nudges you a bit so that you stay reality based. She's a political animal with a great mind for pulling it all together
and getting to the basis of the subject. You go annie, it's a pleasure to read your posts. 
Keep it up.
Keep it up.1 person likes this
@matersfish (6306)
• United States
4 Nov 09
Your post spins enough already. 
Nothing I can add.
But I will LMAO @ your BOOOYA foot stomp at Palin and the "far right tea party crowd."
Nothing I can add.
But I will LMAO @ your BOOOYA foot stomp at Palin and the "far right tea party crowd." 1 person likes this
