Enough is enough or not........

@vandana7 (99383)
India
March 16, 2023 12:33pm CST
Ukraine is hurt. I admire Zelensky. (Hope I spelt his name right) But somewhere, I feel, I would be right too in wanting to give up. I would get the bad name for generations. But Ukrainians would live. In some way, I feel, I would be selfish not to surrender... Life is more important. With so many lives lost, I would definitely surrender. Would you? What would you give up for the sake of peace and survival of at least the women and children in war?
10 people like this
14 responses
• Eugene, Oregon
16 Mar 23
I heard this morning that Poland is sending jet fighter planes to Ukraine.
4 people like this
• Eugene, Oregon
16 Mar 23
@JimBo452020 Surrender would encourage Putin to attack elsewhere. He seeks to reestablish the Soviet Union.
3 people like this
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
17 Mar 23
@JimBo452020 Exactly my feelings........ too many deaths will be there for no good reason. Even if people win, will it be victory? And what would be the world be like ..in such a scenario.
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
17 Mar 23
@JamesHxstatic I agree on that too. Surrendering will encourage Putin and even other Russian leaders. That said, it will create a nation that is not likely to have people with their hearts in it. Lifeless nation. Not fun.
1 person likes this
@JudyEv (328973)
• Rockingham, Australia
17 Mar 23
But would the people want to live under Russian rule? And I can't see Putin stopping just with Ukraine's surrender.
4 people like this
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
17 Mar 23
Neither do I see Putin stopping there... but of what use destroying everything of Ukraine, more of its culture, its people. Ukraine has never been on our side. That still does not make me feel ..they should be dying... this is not the way to resolve issues. Innocents should not suffer. My heart aches for them. I would feel the same way if it was a pakistani child who was suffering.
2 people like this
@JudyEv (328973)
• Rockingham, Australia
17 Mar 23
@vandana7 It is certainly an awful state of affairs.
2 people like this
@LadyDuck (463028)
• Switzerland
17 Mar 23
Too many deaths and his Generals are starting to oppose his decisions.
3 people like this
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
18 Mar 23
That is right...there is a limit to life loss that people find acceptable in wars. This is simply not acceptable. Moreover, with fear of getting deeply involved and losing possibly soldiers who were there yesterday not today...who possibly saved lives ...it makes people even in armed forces demoralized and wondering if their leaders are thinking of them. Added to that is loss of lives of loved ones......how is one to cope with stress like that? And the fear that this is not going to end ...but only stretch into nuclear confrontation. You bet, everybody wants to flee the situation. I could not call it anti national.
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
18 Mar 23
@LadyDuck If there is a possibility of winning, I would say yes. There is no possibility of winning. Absolutely no possibility. Zelensky is doing this for history.... but ...history can be better. Why must people die and army be demoralized. For now, surrender, then take your chances...when everything is better. Or negotiate with Russia rightly. As I understand it, Russia is miffed. It spent its resources to develop some of the regions expecting returns which would help to improve the other regions. Then glasnost and perestroika happened, the richer regions separated out, offering no dividends for the investments of the past, which led to even the poorer regions breaking off, as they felt short changed. I do believe Putin has a reason, if that is the truth.
1 person likes this
@LadyDuck (463028)
• Switzerland
18 Mar 23
@vandana7 - Trying to free your country is fine, but killing all the population only to WIN is wrong. For him now is more about his ego than about his population. My father was at the Italian front during WWII, he told me how much they had enough of war after one year. When it stopped they were all so exhausted that they were ready to give up, no matter the winner. The Ukrainian Ambassador here in Switzerland said yesterday that it will be horrible for Ukraine if all those who left decide not to go back. If Zelensky does not change, all those refugees will never go back.
1 person likes this
@rakski (112924)
• Philippines
16 Mar 23
in surrendering, will it give them a safe environment or bring back their old lives? I do not think so
2 people like this
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
17 Mar 23
Old lives are definitely not possible anymore. But it would be a chance to survive.
2 people like this
@rakski (112924)
• Philippines
17 Mar 23
@vandana7 true. and nowadays there are many greedy people who wants power and money
2 people like this
@TheHorse (209159)
• Walnut Creek, California
17 Mar 23
@vandana7 Old lives are not possible? What does that mean?
2 people like this
@RasmaSandra (75003)
• Daytona Beach, Florida
16 Mar 23
That is always the biggest problem when in a war situation you don't know what is best and in the end by the time all it said and done way too many lives are lost,
2 people like this
@TheHorse (209159)
• Walnut Creek, California
17 Mar 23
I am glad we stood up to Hitler in WWII.
4 people like this
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
18 Mar 23
We humans are weird. We do so much research. We establish facilities for ourselves ..collecting taxes. Then comes a stupid man ...deciding that something or someone is wrong ... convinces others and starts a war, destroying whatever was painstakingly built...taking away lives in process. Weird, weird..........weird.
2 people like this
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
18 Mar 23
@TheHorse Expansion is scary anytime... but this is more of a feeling of being short changed. And back then, we were not nuclear nations.
1 person likes this
• United Kingdom
18 Mar 23
There's always that temptation, but if a ceasefire was called now, that would leave Russia with considerable territorial gains at the expense of Ukraine. And if you let aggressors profit from their crimes, it just encourages them to try again later. In retrospect, they really should have been stopped when they seized Crimea. The Putin regime has to be defeated, not just to deter them, but to discourage others from attempting territorial conquest in the future. We're not going to achieve a safe, stable free world until some way is found to enforce international law.
2 people like this
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
19 Mar 23
In nuclear world, do you think that is feasible? As I see it...there are three options... Option 1....give up. What do we gain? Nothing. Part of Ukraine will go to Russia...major territory as you said. Option 2. Fight it to bitter end What do we gain? Nothing. Ukrainians die, they get resented elsewhere....Russia still gets the territory unless we start nuclear war. In which event, the entire set of nuclear nations gets dragged into the war ......like a whirlpool dragging it all in. If that happens citizens of other nations also suffer. Their infrastructure will also get destroyed. Option 3 ... Negotiate Why is this war happening, what is the reason ...who is feeling some injustice has happened, is it real or perceived..what could be a just solution. Some compromises are inevitable ...but they would be worth it, to help a nation survive and to establish better order. As you said, this is what we should have done during Crimea takeover.
1 person likes this
@sjvg1976 (41134)
• Delhi, India
19 Mar 23
@JamesHxstatic I feel countries should come up with Ukraine openly. Maybe they are scared that it may not turn into a world war if they do so.
2 people like this
• Eugene, Oregon
19 Mar 23
@vandana7 All of Ukraine would go to Russia and Putin is already planning for Moldava and what's next? Poland for helping Ukraine? Putin is a mad, power-hungry despot.
3 people like this
@shaggin (71696)
• United States
16 Mar 23
I hate war it is so heart breaking. I don’t know what I would do in these peoples shoes honestly.
1 person likes this
@kaylachan (60522)
• Daytona Beach, Florida
16 Mar 23
War is war. Giving up something won't guarantee an end to it or protection. Do the best to protect yourself.
2 people like this
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
18 Mar 23
It is an impossible situation, isn't it? West will not step in with nuclear weapons lest their own countries be bombed with nuclear weapons. This means, Russia always has the upper hand. So far, Ukraine's resources are what have kept Russia holding back that nuclear attack. But there may come a time when patience is lost.
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
19 Mar 23
@kaylachan How true...one person holding a child in arm...this is what needs to survive...not I...
1 person likes this
@kaylachan (60522)
• Daytona Beach, Florida
18 Mar 23
@vandana7 And, the two of them can go at it. No one wins. It just takes one of them to say stop.
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@sjvg1976 (41134)
• Delhi, India
16 Mar 23
I feel they should not give up now when they have lost several lives and property.
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@vandana7 (99383)
• India
18 Mar 23
It is quite like stock markets. You should know when to cut your losses. So many lives are lost, yes. But there is no way Ukraine is gonna win this war. West will not give it nuclear weapons. Russia could use those. So there is no hope........ It is only a time ...during which more lives will be lost. Armed forces will get demoralized. The country would be lost. Along with life there. How then is the war won? Remember Kalinga? Emperor Ashok destroyed it completely? Taking a moral high is not logical in this. Zelensky is admirable...but here, he should court shame...to ensure survival of Ukrainians.
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
18 Mar 23
@sjvg1976 Who said they will be slaves? Russia will kill Ukrainians even if they don't surrender. LOL I explained the possible cause for this war in Anna's box...from what another person explained to me. I think there is some justification for Putin's action. As I said, I do not know everything about this situation. Nevertheless, I do believe some Ukranians were keen to align with Russia, whereas others with NATO. It was for the leaders to find a way that would not lead to conflict. I believe it can still be found, if egos are kept aside.
1 person likes this
@sjvg1976 (41134)
• Delhi, India
18 Mar 23
@vandana7 But it's not good to live as slaves. Russia is going to kill Ukrainians if they get hold of Ukraine.
2 people like this
@wolfgirl569 (97939)
• Marion, Ohio
16 Mar 23
I feel bad for all of them
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
18 Mar 23
We have not learned to prevent wars. We have not focused on negotiation skills. We have not established a culture of fairness that will prevent any disputes escalating abnormally. If West continues to help, chances of this escalating to nuclear level are rather high.
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@TheHorse (209159)
• Walnut Creek, California
17 Mar 23
I would not surrender.
2 people like this
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
17 Mar 23
You are very clear in your mind about it. I am not. In fact, I might have given up within the first week...........nobody needs to die for a decision of mine. If I have not managed to convince others that it is the right decision, then it is my fault. Oh I admire Zelensky. But there is only one outcome of the course he is on. With surrender, there can be other outcome. I would take my chances.
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
17 Mar 23
@TheHorse Point 1...........What does he stand to gain with it, and what does the rest of the world stand to lose with that? Point 2.... Isn't the choice ......Soviet Union (former) vs....... elimination of Europe and America? Which is more devastating? Point 3.... Has the breaking down of soviet union damaged the economy of Russia? I think not. Point 4... Is there a better way around it all? I would think so.... Once upon a time, there were three nations.........Kenya, Uganda, and Tanzania... they were separate nations and yet they collaborated on all the things...TILL Idi Amin came into picture in Uganda.
@TheHorse (209159)
• Walnut Creek, California
17 Mar 23
@vandana7 As @JamesHxstatic said, Putin wants to recreate the Soviet Union.
2 people like this
@LindaOHio (161556)
• United States
13 Apr 23
I don't think I'd want to live under Russian rule.
@CarolDM (203448)
• Nashville, Tennessee
17 Mar 23
All I will say is they have billions of dollars and military equipment from the US and can decide whatever. Our military is being depleted as a result of helping what is not our war. I wish them the best.
2 people like this
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
17 Mar 23
I am not Ok with the west supporting Ukraine with war. I would rather they helped to mediate used their offices for that...then the things will not escalate...and then there is hope that the issues will subside.
1 person likes this
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
17 Mar 23
@CarolDM Me too. :(
1 person likes this
@CarolDM (203448)
• Nashville, Tennessee
17 Mar 23
@vandana7 Good to hear you also do not support this action. Right now I see no hope if things continue as they are.
1 person likes this
@MarieCoyle (30737)
16 Mar 23
I don't like to be negative, but I do think WW3 is a high probability. A very scary thought for all of us. Would I personally surrender? I don't know. I have never given that idea a thought. As a mother of sons, I wouldn't want to sacrifice them as well as anyone else. I follow the news and try to sort it all out, it appears to be so terrible over there. My heart hurts for all of us.
2 people like this
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
17 Mar 23
Men don't give birth to babies. So they don't care what happens...I feel. I know that is unreasonable...and biased....but men usually take a firm stand towards war, while I feel every life saved is good.
@vandana7 (99383)
• India
18 Mar 23
@MarieCoyle Yes. It does. Ask the Japanese. And ask the Chinese...how their pension funds are behaving.
1 person likes this
@MarieCoyle (30737)
17 Mar 23
@vandana7 And, every life matters very much.
1 person likes this