Not allowed to have an opinion

@dawnald (84148)
Shingle Springs, California
January 7, 2013 11:16am CST
(?) This is from a long time ago. I was watching tv at my parent's house back in the 80's. My boyfriend (now my ex husband) and my sister's boyfriend (now her ex boyfriend) were there. There was a commercial with a really attractive woman on it. At least my sister and I thought she was attractive. The guys did not. We got in a discussion about that, and the sister's bf basically stated that since we were women, our opinion about whether another woman was attractive was not valid. His point being, I think, that a woman has no idea what's attractive to a guy. Well maybe, but I'm betting that the lady on the commercial was very attractive to a lot of men, just not those two. Seriously, can a woman not tell if another woman is attractive? Or a man and a man? Was that a silly, macho thing to say?
8 people like this
30 responses
@marguicha (81680)
• Chile
7 Jan 13
I feel that we know a lot more about what men find atractive than the knowledge they have of our tastes. I remember a long time ago I was in a literary workshop. THe writer who directed the workshop gave us a task that the women had to write as a man who tried to be attracted to women and viseversa. The men thought we all wanted those bulging muscles. Most of us liked skinny nice tender men who cared for us and showed it. Musscles and the rest(you know what I mean) came in second.
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
7 Jan 13
Although there are women who go for that first, I bet...
1 person likes this
@marguicha (81680)
• Chile
7 Jan 13
THere`s for every taste. But your Governator is not my type.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
7 Jan 13
Not me either.
@SomeCowgirl (32273)
• United States
7 Jan 13
Macho indeed. If I think a woman is attractive I'm going to say it, the same if it's a man. I'm sure other men think another is attractive, they just aren't apt to say it, macho-ness and all.
2 people like this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
7 Jan 13
The macho thing is actually why my sister broke up with him.
1 person likes this
@urbandekay (18314)
7 Jan 13
Firstly attractive is a subjective matter, beauty, as they say, is in the eye of the beholder. However, it is my opinion that women have different idea as to what constitutes attractiveness to men, though there is an overlap. all the best urban
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
7 Jan 13
I'm sure you're right, but for him to totally dismiss our opinion was pretty arrogant.
@urbandekay (18314)
7 Jan 13
Are you sure? Perhaps it was just badly expressed? all the best, urban
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
7 Jan 13
Possibly, but my sister did break up with him later, mostly over the macho attitude...
@vandana7 (57469)
• India
7 Jan 13
Ah Dawny...men differ in preferences...and they differ drastically...what we think is attractive is not attractive to them. Even simple colors...like women generally like peaches and pinks, men like red..while we like red...we also like peaches and pinks, men...they dont ...ok..if you say it is nice..ok...but I prefer this..they are very clear about that..and the problem is..each one has different tastes. That is the reason Catherine Zeta Jones and Ashley Judd are considered as chiselled beauties, but men would prefer Angeline Jolie..or Sophia Loren..the later cannot be called very beautiful in conventional terms...but then, men and men... And how would I know this? lol. Once there was a big big discussion about it with a group of friends...lol
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
7 Jan 13
Different tastes. I know my ex doesn't think Angelina Jolie is attractive at all. When Brad Pitt left Jennifer Aniston for her, and some jerk called Jennifer homely, I know several guys who said Jennifer was prettier. And the ex really thinks Catherine Zeta Jones is gorgeous.
@vandana7 (57469)
• India
7 Jan 13
I would rank her as the pretiest followed by meg ryan and ashley judd..Julia roberts again does not figure in the list...but for men, she does...
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
7 Jan 13
Rita Hayworth... But long, long ago...
@Nxwtypx (58)
• United States
8 Jan 13
Charisma is charisma, regardless of eye or beholder.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
8 Jan 13
Even charisma is subjective.
• United States
8 Jan 13
That can be true, gravitas and good looks aren't always an objective thing. However, I'm agreeing with your original position - a person notices charisma, regardless of the gender of the person with it. Societal taboos against someone complimenting someone of the same gender may prevent people from mentioning it, but everybody notices nonetheless.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
8 Jan 13
True although said charisma may affect people different ways.
• Pamplona, Spain
10 Jan 13
Hiya dawn, I can have an opinion that is when he is listening of course. I will often say what a pretty girl or woman she will surely go far and he might say yes or mutter something just to agree. However I can say that about a handsome man and all he will say is humph and nothing else or sometimes well suppose so lol. Suppose I am lucky in that sense on that level I can have an opinion now if that were my ex brothers say they would have said more or less what your ex husband said and the same with my kids. So at least I can have an opinion with one.xxx
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
10 Jan 13
It was more my sister's ex, although my ex could get like that sometimes too.
1 person likes this
• Pamplona, Spain
11 Jan 13
Hiya dawn, Well my opinion is fixed more or less but a good open one too for me men are men and women are women but if I see someone who is really beautiful I usually say so apart from talking to myself of course. This morning I have a very strong opinion about a certain bill they have sent me but that is between me and the brick wall so to speak at this rate the power and I will say only that will be more expensive than the actual rent of this place and that is every month. So its nice to say nice things about each other and that´s it everything is getting far too complicated for it to be otherwise. Hope you are well and getting along fine.xxx
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
11 Jan 13
More than rent? Just my opinion, but that's crazy. lol
@bellis716 (4807)
• United States
9 Jan 13
I think the men were rude. She was attractive to you and your sister. What the men thought would have no bearing on your opinion. Did you ask the men why they found her unattractive?
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
9 Jan 13
No, the way it was said, it pretty much put an end to open discussion...
@bellis716 (4807)
• United States
10 Jan 13
Been there.
1 person likes this
@JamesKYTan (1607)
• Malaysia
8 Jan 13
They are entitled to their own opinion. But there is a general understanding about what is beauty. For example Jennifer Lopez is beautiful or David Beckham is handsome. This I think most will agree. Of course one or two may disagree. Maybe it is sour grapes. Don't forget this, "Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder."
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
8 Jan 13
Actually, I can agree that somebody is attractive and yet not be attracted to them. In the case of my sister's ex, I think he couldn't.
• Malaysia
9 Jan 13
I think Keats the poet once say, ' Beauty is truth. Truth beauty.' Some may agree that this girl is beautiful, but others may not. Some girls may be attractive but not pretty. Attractiveness may be due to the dress they wear and the make-up they put. But pure beauty or true beauty is everyone agree.
1 person likes this
@celticeagle (115084)
• Boise, Idaho
7 Jan 13
I think it was a macho thing to say. I think that any woman that wants to be attractive spends alot of time watching other women and seeing what other men like by their body language and expressions when other women walk in. Any smart woman is aware of other women! And they know the ones that are attractive to men and those that aren't.
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
7 Jan 13
excellent point....
1 person likes this
@celticeagle (115084)
• Boise, Idaho
8 Jan 13
Thank you. THis comes from many years of observation.
1 person likes this
• United States
27 Jan 13
How old were they 12? Of course women can and do have opinions about how pretty a woman is. In fact Most of the time women dress for other women. How many times has a young woman picked a dress for a dinner or a party solely because it would top all the dresses the other women would be wearing. That's not dressing for yourself or even your lover but for your peers. So the guys were sooo wrong.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
27 Jan 13
Yeah, take that Steve Frye!
@sid556 (31018)
• United States
12 Jan 13
Im willing to bet that they found her attractive too and just were patronizing you. I don't know the reason for it but Ive seen this before. it makes no sense to me, its a guy thing and hopefully some guy here can give you a reasonable explanation.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
17 Jan 13
If R says a girl is ugly, he really thinks she is. Not sure about the other guy.
@stary1 (6622)
• United States
11 Jan 13
dawnald LOL sometimes guys just want to be know it alls..as if they have some knowledge women are not privy too... If they had been mature men, they would have qualified what they said by being specific that for some guys like them this is their opinion, but other guys might feel differently.. Obviously they just wanted to one up you..You could have just laughed and won the day...
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
11 Jan 13
@MsTickle (25014)
• Australia
10 Jan 13
I think the two of them ganged up on the two of you because you dared to express an opinion of an attractive woman. The men I have known do not rate other men as attractive or otherwise. When asked they shrug and claim indifference. *Real men don't eat quiche either. To each his own. I think Nicole Kidman is absolutely beautiful and my ex pointed out a few women he found attractive who I had never looked at twice but now I see where he is coming from...Renee Russo is one and Ann Bancroft another. *Real Men Don't Eat Quiche, by American Bruce Feirstein, is a bestselling tongue-in-cheek book satirizing stereotypes of masculinity, published in 1982
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
10 Jan 13
I've heard of the book, but I never actually read it.
1 person likes this
@dorannmwin (36697)
• United States
9 Jan 13
If you were wrong in saying that this woman was attractive, I suppose there have been plenty of times in my life that I've been wrong because even though I am a woman there are a lot of times that I will say that I think another woman is attractive. I guess men just assume that women never look at other women and judge their attractiveness because I know that the majority of men don't look at other men and say, "He is attractive."
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
10 Jan 13
Yup, I'm wrong a lot.
@kokomo (1868)
• Philippines
8 Jan 13
Even if we are woman we can still appreciate beauty of other woman. Like me, I can appreciate someone's beauty. Maybe us girls has a different perception when it comes to beauty compared to boys.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
8 Jan 13
I'm sure we do...
@kenzie45230 (3563)
• United States
8 Jan 13
I don't think, other than a woman with gigantic you know whats, that most men agree on much about what makes a woman attractive. Much like most women don't agree either. Yes, two friends might agree. (Could be why they're friends.)
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
8 Jan 13
True, people have different tastes regardless of gender.
• United States
8 Jan 13
Hi Dawn. I say yes, indeed, that was a sexist thing to say. Women will acknowledge beauty in other women, but lots of guys are too uptight to see attractiveness in other men. Like it would make them gay if they did. That is my thought in the subject. Most men don't see the same kind of beauty that women see. Men may focus on body, and women may focus on the total package, like face and how she carries herself as a woman inside and out. Anyone can have attractiveness, but if they have a personality of a garbage can, they are ugly in my opinion.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
8 Jan 13
some men judge beauty with their other brain.
@jazel_juan (15767)
• Philippines
7 Jan 13
Lol silly huh! My husband would also say this sometimes. But he would explain that we, women can always appreciate what is pretty or nice.. like with women, we could say that we love their hair, or that we find them sexy or we find them attractive so they do not think it is valid coz we say it often... but unlike them men, he said he do not say it unless he really mean and true and that makes it valid.. i find it silly.
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
7 Jan 13
Ah well, not from his point of view, I guess.
@jillhill (37354)
• United States
7 Jan 13
Very sexist if you ask me....I think it's to each their own. Good thing too because if we all think the same person is attractive all of us would be trying to get the one we all think is hot!
1 person likes this
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
7 Jan 13
Unless it's like that Twilight Zone episode where everybody looks alike...
@ZoeJoy (1395)
• United States
7 Jan 13
We as women, can't see the world from a man's point of view but, visa versa is true as well. A man can't see the world from a woman's point of view. We can learn to understand each other. And, even appreciate each other. What is attractive to a woman is indeed different to what is attractive to a man. What is attractive to a man is indeed different to what is attractive to a woman. Did your ex say what he found not attractive about that woman? Perhaps, he had certain kind of tastes in a woman.
@dawnald (84148)
• Shingle Springs, California
7 Jan 13
Nope, he just calls a woman ugly, and no reason given. It happened many times over the years.