Where Will the Doctors, Nurses and other Medical Professionals Come From?  |
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| With all this demand for single payer medical care, has anyone sat down to figure out the supply problem? In 2006, the Association of American Colleges reported that "When the mid-points of the projected supply and demand scenarios outlined in the report are used, the net result is a projected shortage of about 85,000 physicians in 2020 – which is equivalent to approximately ten percent of today’s physician workforce." That report didn't take single payer medical care into consideration, and that is just physicians. There is already a major shortage of nurses and techs. Simply supply and demand says that if the cost goes down, the demand will go up. Countries that have single payer healthcare are examples of where the US is headed. Because of demand, Canada spends over $1 Billion a year sending a lot of their excess patients to the US. Waiting times for anything other than emergency follow up treatment can be weeks to months. If Obama wins the White House and we go to a single payer system, demand will go up drastically, but there are only so many graduates every year. Burnout rates won't go down, and niether will the rates of people leaving the medical field for other pursuits. So, all of you who are all about single payer medical care... What do you propose we do that the other countries haven't thought of? | | | | | |
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1. BCMike (3316)
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4 years ago
| | Okay. I am Canadian and I have extensive experiance with our system due to the MS that annoys me so much. Socialized medicine that so many fear in the US is not a bad thing. Our problems and shortages are because the US system is rife with greed. You have hospitals that are for profit. Insurance companies that are for profit. Boy are they for profit. I don't know how you folks can afford insurance with the deductables that come with it. You already are experiancing a shortage of qualified doctors, nurses and health technicians. So, you are going to have to do exactly what we have to do and that is import them from abroad. In our area we have a slug of doctors from South Africa. My own GP is from there. Good doctor by the way... Anyway, there is no shortage of smart people who would love to be doctors and are capable of doing that too. But what our two countries share is a whole bunch of smart people who cannot afford to pay for doctor school. It's just too expensive. Nursing isn't as bad but it's up there too. We don't have enough medical school teachers or spaces. You know what the answer is of course, More socialism... We have to fund medical schools and the students who wish to attend. Targeted education paid for so that smart people can afford to go to school. We have to set up a system of specified target occupations where really significant shortages currently exist and we need to fill them by paying for them. Student loans that are forgivable as soon as you graduate as a licenced GP or other target occupation. However, you can add a rider that says you will practice in a certain area for a period of XYZ years. Medicine men and women paid for by the state and accessible by the people. It's how the europeans are doing it and it how we are going to have to do it too. | | | | | | |
lloydanthony111 (1180)
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4 years ago
| | Thank you, thank you, thank you for telling it like it is. There is a tendency here in the United States to put labels on everything. "Socialized Medicine" is one of those labels. There's been so many mistruths spoken about healthcare in Canada that I can't begin to name them all. It's so refreshing to hear details from an actual "CANADIAN" who has "ENTENSIVE" experience with the system. Many people opposed to affordable healthcare for all Americans always bring up the long waiting lines for this or for that service or procedure. Could you please tell me if that is the case or just another mistruth? Thank for helping out with this issue from a Canadian perspective. Lloyd | | | |
BCMike (3316)
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4 years ago
| | In some areas, there are waiting lists for people to get a particular GP because there are just not enough trained doctors. This is most common in larger cities where there are doctors, but many of them inconveniently located. And some of our city hospitals are simply overwhelmed by the sheer volume of people needing attention. Ever watch ER? Like that. In the US, if I understand correctly, you have charity hospitals and you have the big bucks hospitals that few can afford. Here, a hospital is a hospital. The only limits on treatment here are availability of specialists and diagnosic equipment and technicians. | | | |
ParaTed2k (6358)
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4 years ago
| | I merely used the Canadian system as an example. The point of the OP was that we already have massive shortages, and I doubt very many people who are all about single payer medical care have given much thought to how much bigger the shortages will be. That being said though, what will the Canadian government do if they can't send patients to the US anymore? | | | |
BCMike (3316)
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4 years ago
| | My guess is that we will just have to buck up and pay for our own medical system in full. Shipping folks all over the map is not cost effective. If we want medical staff, we are just going to have to pay for them. | | | |
ParaTed2k (6358)
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4 years ago
| | Paying for them isnt the problem, having enough medical professionals to cover the demand is. | | | |
BCMike (3316)
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4 years ago
| | Paying for the services isn't what I meant. Paying the costs of making people into doctors and specialist is. We are eventually going to have to pay to make more doctors. Most students cannot afford the enormous costs of schooling for so many years. | | | |
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2. ZephyrSun (3727)
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4 years ago
| | I don't really have any answers for our health care system or lack there of. Have you seen that commercial (I don't know what it's about) "my medical insurance is like having a medical coupon"? That's our medical insurance. If we actually want any bills picked up by our insurance we have to have 10,000 in out of pocket expenses. This doesn't include the actual payment of about 4,000ish a year for the cost of the plan. Having a child with autism it's not hard to spend that ten grand but, with the economy we have cut out some of his medical treatment that I had to make the decision we could cut out until money gets better. As for the shortage of doctors...We could possibly work on the cost involved with becoming a doctor. Work on malpractice insurance costs. | | | | | | |
ParaTed2k (6358)
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4 years ago
| | Two good ideas, but they would only address the 85,000 physician projection. They would do nothing about the increased demand. Also, they would do nothing about the nursing or tech shortage either. | | | |
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3. lilwonders456 (3526)
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4 years ago
| | We do not have enough doctors as is. Our visa department gives the fast track to any doctor from a foreign country that wants to come here. A lot of people do not want to become doctors here in this country. They do not make as much as everyone think. They are not super rich. WHen you look at how much in debt that are when they get out of medical school (it is super expensive), it takes years and years to get out from under that debt. A large portion of their income goes to mal-practice insurance. Plus peoples insurance companies are always trying to find ways not to pay for a service or pay just a little. They work very long hours. They have their rounds of patients in the hospital to see, and then their office hours to see regular patients. They work a ton of hours. My dad and my sister are both in medical fields (but not doctors). THey both tell me all the time that doctors are overworked and underpaid. And is so not worth it to be one. So yes we have a shortage and if we go to a one payer system it will get worse. WHy be a doctor? What will be the incentive be for the few that have the determination, money and liking of that job? | | | | | | |
the_vicar (4942)
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4 years ago
| | They will have to set up a system where technicians are used. The actual doctor should only treat difficult cases. PA's or Physician Assistants could do all of the screening. Outsource x-ray reading and lab reports. Use RN's as treatment personnel. Let the PA do hospital rounds and encourage more GP's rather than specialists. Under the current insurance system, you have to have a provider. This doctor determines if you need a specialist. Then you seek out a specialist and they redo all of the x-rays, lab tests even if you only had it done a few days before. What a waste of money. Ince it has been determined by the GP that you need to see a specialist, then all of the records and tests should follow you to that doctor. If surgery is needed, then the specialist should schedule it as soon as possible. Instead of having every hospital designed for multiple surgery procedures, have hospitals set up to do specific surgeries. For example, instead of taking up a large operating room for a simple procedure, have a hospital set up with small treatment centers for hose surgeries. Train technicians to do general procedures rather than sending someone for 4 years of college, taking art appreciation and PE, then 4 years of medical school, forget the bachelor's degree with history and government and music appreciation. Send smart people to a 2 year program designed for someone entering the medical field. So much of college is bull sit courses and a waste of time and money. Educated people but in the field they are specializing in and forget the history, they should have had 4 years of that In high school. | | | |
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4. bobmnu (4821)
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4 years ago
| | One of the factors in the Provider shortage is that several ears ago this country decided that we needed more women Dr. Extra slots were set aside for women and women were sought out by the Medical Schools. Several years later they found that women Dr teneded to work fewer hours and shorter weeks than their male counter parts. They retired earlier and too more vacations and time off for child rearing. Second is that we are not using our Dr in the right way. I go in with a sore throat. I am seen by a nurse who check height and weight, takes my blood pressure and temp. The Dr comes in and looks at my throat and orders a throat culture done. I go and have it done. My bill is Office visit $125, and $80 for the culture. I understand the cost include a lot for overhead. Why could I not go to a medical lab and have them do the culture and have it done for $40.00. I went in several weeks ago to have a growth removed from my hand. A dr. and nurse removed it and the bill was several hundred dollars. This procedure could have been done by a trained Nurse or Army Medic at a much lower cost. Third is the government has to pay their fair share of the cost. I have talked to several Dr who tell me that medicare and Medicaid do not pay the full cost of a procedure and so the rest of the people are charged more to make up the difference. Medical Mal Practice has to be better defined and not decided by a non medical jury.To claim medical mal practice when the doctor operates on the wrong part or leaves a sponge inside is one thing but to sue because the Dr who operated on your leg left too large a scar is something else. i would like to see a team of Dr serve as a review board and review complaints. Then have form financial people make a recommendation as to the monetary damages. By paying them a salary to do this there is no incentive to seek high settlements but to settle for what is fair. Medical costs can be controlled but don't look to the government to do it. | | | | | | |
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5. xParanoiax (5014)
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4 years ago
| | I heard this thing on the news lately that in our state, there's TOO MANY people applying for the only industry that's growing right now. It'll PROBABLY depend on the area. People go where the money's at, you know. As for game-changing circumstances...aiya, there's too many variables for me to crunch on that...and I've rather been dragging my feet because I reckon once I more or less grasp the likelihoods it'll probably be depressing... So...*shrugs* Shortages! Earlier this year, I was pondering over food shortages the world over...and in attempting to discuss what else could we find ourself short of in the future, alot of people said I was all "doom 'n gloomin'". | | | | | | |
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6. revellanotvanella (1957)
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4 years ago
| | I didnt even read your intro but Im do wonder about this one myself. I imagine many doctors from overseas will find jobs here and the whole globalization thing is confusing to me because I can never understand if ultimately its a good or bad thing but from this horizon I see it is not any good. There has to be better incentives and protection for the professionals though domestically. | | | | | | |
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7. fgaloma (140)
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4 years ago
| | i think by about 2020, nurses all over the world would be comming from the philippines, because right now almost 50% of graduates are nurses. | | | | | | |
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| 8. Dudyala (11)
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4 years ago
| | It is a sad thing that there is a deficit for ppl in this industryBut ppl have to go for such courses splly in India where pursuing Engineering a considered a social status | | | | | | |
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