Tired of Republican Scare Tactics and Lies?

Hey, great discussion. I understand you wanting to bring a little sanity to this, I think it's something we'd all like to see brought back to this debate. Now some very important points I want to add to this that you may have either missed or may not have considered. You specify "republicans" as the oposition, the sole oposition in fact. Were this the case, it would be as cut and dry as you frame the discussion. How ever, the case is not so much republicans being against the plans Obama. and various members of the house and senate have put forth. It is more a case of EVERYONE but democrats being against it. I am a member of two different parties, though I am a registered indepemndant voter. I belong to the libertarian and constitution parties. YOu will get no argument from me on most of your points reguarding Bush or the RNC in general. Bush is probably the one most reposnable for igniting the surge of the patriot/libertarian movement we began to see in the 90's. His actions were so abhorent in fact, along with the behavior of republicans in congress, it even drove many republicans away from the party and in to this movement. The oposition though, not only contains these defected republcinas, but more largely, the libertarian movement (not to be confused with the libertarian party) is made up of people who were just as in oposition to the previous administration. TO continue blaming the hype, rumors, actions, and such on one party, on one group or one person, is to lose the scope and scale of the discussion. Yes, Bush used fear, quite effectively in fact.It got us the patriot act, new fisa policy and the T.A.R.P. (aka the bailout that wasn't really a bailout), all of which I will also point out that BOTH senator McCain AND then senator Obama voted for. Fear of a terror attack got the patriot act rammed through and fear of economic collaps got us T.A.R.P. Fear is one of the politicians greatest weapons. This same weapon is still being used against us. this same fear of even greater economic collaps got the recovery act (aka the stimusus that wasn't really a stimulus) pushed through. this same fear is now being used by the current administration, fear of a collaps of our health care system. It is being used to rush a complex discussion and issue through with out propper thought, debate or conversation. We have the government, the parties, the insurance industry, unions and national lobby groups, and all 3 of the big news networks, all of them dragging us down in to an abyss of rumors, lies, infighting, scare tactics, name calling, threats and worst of all, violence. And whats being lost in all of this is sane, reasonable conversation. Again, it is ALL of them, not just the republican party, or the democratic party, all of the above mentioned and it is drowing out and marginalizing the genuine grass rotts movement that is just trying to understand all of this and trying to slow down the debate and measure the problems and consider the propper course of action. T he news networks, particularly msnbc, is billing the oposition as an organized republican mob. While there is a bit of truth in this, it is not the whole truth. What exactly defines an "organized" resistence? Does any group of concerned citizens who happen to attatch a name to their group or movement constitute a "rent-a-mob"? Are all these groups being directed and orchestrated by parties? Of course not. One need only a modacom of reasoning and critical thinking skills to realize that. The republican party is no more responsable for shwastika's on a congressmans shop sign than the democratic party is reponsable for thugs who beat the krap out a guy selling "don't tread on me" flags out side of a meeting. You see, despite the fact that there is an organized partisan based resistance, most of us are just people who want measured and carefully considered action from our government. Most of us simply do not trust them, ALL of them, republicans and democrats alike. They have both left us and the country in the dust long ago. They are both statist authoritarian parties with no signifigant difference in how they wish to govern. It is all about consolidating and centralizing power now and both will go to any ends to do so. We simply DO NOT trust them anymore and are loathed to put even more power in their hands. All we want is a sane debate and a LONG conversation on what we are going to do. there is no question that SOMETHING needs to be done. There are several million people who simply have no option available to provide coverage and payment for the health care they recieve, health care I will add that is still the best in the world. We do in fact have the most advanced medical care available in the world and EVERYONE should be able to pay for it. Yet again, there are several million who do not qualify for things like medicaid, medicare, s-chip, ect and cannot afford to buy a private plan through an employer or the outside private market. SO, before we make any changes, before we completely dismantle a deeply entrenched system and replace it. Lets have a sane,rational and LOOOONG conversation about it. What do we have now, what is working, what parts can we expand on to include more people, what parts are completely defunked, what parts are tainted and corupted, how do we pay for it with out printing billions of dollars, with out saddling our great grandchildren with debt and worthless fiat currency? And most important, how do we do it and preserve our liberties and constitution? Although there is a lot of rumor and hype about the current options being considered and a lot of it is just that, hype, there are genuine concerns about the people involved putting these options together. People like Ezekial Emanual, who's ideology and words are as chilling as anything one can read in an Orwell novel. Thgough the current plans may not contain anything blatently like what is being hyped, there is no complete plan in place yet and we simply don't know yet what is being considered behind closed doors and midnight meetings. there is no measured debate on legislation any more and such things are rammed through in a hurry, this is exactly what got us T.A.R.P, bulled and jammed through under threats of martial law made to congressional members. It is that exact authroitarian process many of us are just fighting to keep out of our government, such things have no place in the government of a liberty based nation such as ours. Again please remember that BOTH republicans and democrats have been pulling liberties out from under us for a number of years now, Bush did it and now Obama is continuing many of the same things in the same ways. There is virtualy no difference, one cannot call attention to the transgressions of one while ignoring the transgressions of the other. Such mentality is not fitting of an educated society of critical thinkers. Such thinking is a grave danger. It misses half the problem.

I'm sick of the lies and scare tactics of the Obamabots... as well as the lying waste of human flesh Obama himself. Yes, there is propaganda on both sides, so why aren't you honest enough to admit that! If Bush had of acted like Obama is acting now, you would have been all over him... and rightly so. Obama sits in his pompous ivory tower, demanding that we follow him blindly, then whines in his dirty diapers when we don't. The fool, Obama, says he supports the healthcare bill, but didn't bother reading it. He wanted Congress to just rubber stamp it without regard to what is in it! Are you such a mindless robot that you simply approve of this bill, just because you false god told you to? Wake up! If you support the concept of universal healthcare, then fight for what you believe in. But at least have the integrity to honor that same right of the rest of us. Obama told us to shut our mouths. Who does that piece of trash think he is!

I do so agree. they take something and twist it around so then they can tar and feather obama with it, I just wish they would read the truth and shut the heck up. He is doing the best he can as bush left our country in terrible shape and as a republican he had years to lhelp our economy but he did nothing for ordinary people,he was all for big wealthy companies and the very wealthy. it was his mess that Obama now has the horrendous job of trying to fix. we voted him in so lets support him,he is the president after all.

You speak the trut when it comes to the scare tactics. The same thing was done when Clinton tried to get health care reform. The American people get duped everytime and somehow feel like they are the ones winning some kind of freedom battle.

There are also a lot of lies coming from the left. I found this book quite informative, in debunking 10 myths about health care. It also suggests much more fiscally responsible solutions to help fix some of our health care problems. http://liberty.pacificresearch.org/docLib/20081020_Top_Ten_Myths.pdf

Have you read this bill? It isn't that the counselling will talk people into dieing in fact the counseling is about the only good thing in the damn thing. The problem for someone with a disability is this. The life assessments (not the counselling two diffrent things) will evaluate what a person needs in ratio to how long they are projected to live. Say you need or want say hip surgery so that you can walk with out a walker but may still need a cane. If you are over 80 and past the life expectancy they will say it is not worth the cost of the operation because you could die at any moment. A diabetic who is older or has an on going eye deterioration may be told that because surgery will only help for 10 years or so then need to be done again it wouldn't be worth it for the Government to spend the money on it. So the person would go blind or have to go to a private out of country Dr. to have it done. As many Canadians already do by coming here for things, as the diabetic example is a true storey of a Canadian with eye deterioration was told no to a simple surgery. As for hypocrisy Obama stated how he was against the wire taps and the like yet he has not stopped it from being done and in his cash for clunkers program there is a little bit of small writing that allows the Government into your financial situations. Talk about sneaky breach of privacy! Both sides are just as hypocritical as the other.

Isn't hindsight wonderful? So we didn't find any WMDs. Better to be sure than to sit on our butts while we get annihilated. And as someone above mentioned ..... the Dems voted to give Bush the authority to use force in Iraq but they don't like to take responsibility for that, now do they? For all the things that Bush was or wasn't, I felt a lot safer with him in office than I do with Obama there.

yes i'm tired of the scare tatics. they can't seem to come up with any other approach other than that. their like an open book.

I really don't believe the protest regarding the health care reform bill is exclusive with the Republicans. Many people on both sides are opposed to it and with reason. If the Republicans are using scare tactics to encourage these protest against the plan, it may be because they want you to be afraid, knowing that this bill is not good for anyone except perhaps those in power who want more power. If you want honesty, let's be honest. In our history has the government ever taken over the control of anything and had that thing get better? I'm not aware of anything. So, why would we want them to take over control of medical insurance? Also, perhaps the Republicans have studied the effect socialized medicine has had on other countries and don't want what has happened in those countries to happen to us. As far as the health insurance companies denying coverage, maybe denials are based on what policy you've bought. Every policy I've ever seen, auto, homeowners, health, liability, whatever, all have exclusions. If you haven't paid for the coverage, the insurance company cannot pay for that particular treatment, nor should they. The worst part of this health care reform bill is that it's too long and it seems that Congress doesn't want to take the time or energy to read it. They should be ashamed of themselves if they pass it without knowing what it says, and shame on us if we put those representatives back in office the next time they run.

Are you so sick and tired of Obama's lies as Republican's lies?

Apparently telling the truth, is a scare tactic. Maybe you missed it, but the government is broke. Not including Obama's health plan, we will have $20 Trillion dollars in debt by the end of his (G-d forbid) second term. Further, Medicare is $74 Trillion dollars in the hole as we speak. It is absolutely impossible, as in not even a theortical chance, that government will not ration care at this point. It MUST happen because we don't have $74 Trillion dollars to pay for the current plan that only covers 12.5% of the population, let alone a nutty scheme to cover the entire population. Moreover, in countries where health care is controlled by the government, rationing of care happens constantly. In some countries, the doctors euthanize patients they deem untreatable, with or without consent. So telling people what happens when government controls health care, is simply telling them what happens when government controls health care. Scare tactic? Perhaps, but it is the truth regardless. It's far more dangerous to ignore the warning signs that there is a cliff ahead, and to be worried about those warning signs.

All politician are guilty in one form or another. And there WAS YELLOWCAKE (found in IRAQ)...which is a by product of uranium. It was sold to CANADA for use in nuclear reactors. It had to be kept a secret until it was sold...so as to prevent theft of it by the terrorists.Our dear liberal media didn't do much reporting on this....cause it would have made them all look like azzes for insisting nothing like that existed. Wake up! All is not rosey and bright. Both parties LIE and both parties have an agenda. Why be led around like a sheep but their lies? Get off the Bush is evil...if you don't like Obama being called the same. As for Republicans being fear mongers...you've bought into the US vs. THEM thing big time haven't you? Don't you think it's time to stop that and start working together? As for the end of life counseling...it is already done all over the country. It is alread provided for in Medicare and Medicaid as well as private insurances...most nursing homes insist on a resident having some sort of living will or DNR hen admitted. WE DON"T NEED TO HAVE THE GOVERNMENT interfering in the private lives of it's citizens...they are inept at what they do control...BOTH parties. And if they won't admit it...I'll be real blunt....do you really think that they will spend thousands of dollars FOR someone who will die anyway? OR do you think after Obama already said we'd have to 'rethink' expensive care for the elderly who are so close to dying anyway....a man who would vote repeatedly for leaving a full term baby who survives an 'abortion' to die in the closet would allow MONEY to be spent to keep your mom alive if she had a stroke and couldn't beg for her life? I work in healthcare and this kind of sh*t is already happening!

Unfortunately, even though everyone in the whole world is tired with the scare tactics of some politicians in America, there will always be tactics like this to stop bills that are essential to human life, or affect the politicians own personal plans and goals. This is because scare tactics are one of the most effective non-physical way of convincing people what they want. 9/11 is an example of this, as people were all scared all over the world, but I am sure it was escalated a little, but still, this is what happens when you are scared, you will do anything to make it stop.

opalina143, Talk about LIES,Obama talks about his plan.HE HAS NO PLAN !!!Wanna know why? If he told us what he really wants,he could never get it passed. He said he doesn't want single payer,HE LIED. When he spoke to his SEIU supporters in 2003,he said he wanted single payer health insur.He also made a really STUPID statement in his New Ham. speech. He said doctors would rather amputate a foot than tell someone to take care of themselves.He also said a docter would get 30-50K for doing this!!!!!!They actually get between 650-1000 $ !!!If this plan is so great,why won't the DEMOCRATS switch to this plan. I guess its good enough for us peasants but not Pelosi and Reid. Do you think these people really care about you?They want to control you. Our lives will be in their hands,but they won't care if we live or die.Do you really want this bunch of thugs running anything?They can't even run a cash for clunkers program.

facts should never be allowed to get in the way of a good story. in fact i think you'll find the dictionary definition of accuracy includes the word 'optional'