Are you ready to be taxed for NOT having health insurance?
By debrakcarey
@debrakcarey (19887)
United States
August 19, 2009 10:41am CST
By William A. Jacobson, Associate Clinical Professor of Law, Cornell Law School, Ithaca, NY / Insurrection
As set forth in my prior post, IRS The New Health Care Enforcer, the new tax provisions in the Senate and House draft health care bills tax people for failing to obtain acceptable health coverage. These taxes are crucial to implementing a health care mandate (which Barack Obama said during the primary he was against) whereby the power to tax compels people to obtain coverage.
This tax, though, is unlike any other tax. Normally, the federal government taxes income, the purchase and sale of goods and services, and other economic behavior. To the extent the tax laws address non-economic behavior, i.e., one’s mere existence, those laws grant credits or deductions (for example, for a dependent).
I am aware of no other tax resulting from one’s failure to engage in economic activity. Under these draft bills, if you exist, the government taxes you unless you engage in economic activity (and the government may tax that activity as well, as in the case of expensive employer-provided health care plans).
http://lornakismet.wordpress.com/2009/08/18/taxing-your-mere-existence/
1 person likes this
6 responses
@lilwonders456 (8214)
• United States
19 Aug 09
It is a penality or a fine. Not a tax. Call it what they want... it does not change what it is. Either you buy health insurance or you get "fined". Which makes criminals out of honest people who can't afford it.
Also how are they going to know? Are you going to have to turn in "proof of insurance" along with our taxes filings every year now?
It is just another money grab. And more gov. micro managing.
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
19 Aug 09
We see the same thing happening with mandatory car insurance. You don't drive if you don't have it. I know some people who don't have a way to get around now just becaue they work low paying jobs...and cannot afford insurance!
Same with many other government programs...like child support enforcement.
I have four sons...three paying child support. They will loose their driving licenses if they get behind. How does taking away a father's way to work....help the children? My daughter...her ex husband had his tax refund taken..but the child support enforcement agency has had it in their hot grubby hands since February and won't send it to her! Apparently they need it worse than she does?
Anytime the government gets their hands in our private lives....it becomes a nightmare!
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
19 Aug 09
All of this designed to keep us all in line and easy to control.
1 person likes this

@peavey (16936)
• United States
19 Aug 09
They can call it a tax if they like, but it's not. It's a penalty, just like if you don't pay your income taxes on time. Makes a lot of stupid sense, too.. penalize the people who can't pay for insurance. What are they going to do with people who can do neither? Take away their homes or their vehicles?

@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
19 Aug 09
Which btw because of the nobility heavely taxing their 'serfs'....ultimately led to an exodus to the new world...and the subsequent tax revolt known as the American revolution.
We have a 'new nobility' here...who want to live off the backs of the common man and do nothing but pass laws to restrict their lives, liberty, and pursuit of happiness.
Welcome to the New World Order.
Not such a new thing afterall?
Not such a new thing afterall?1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
19 Aug 09
The serfs in the middle ages couldn't afford to pay the Lord either....but they were made to regardless.
1 person likes this

@ParaTed2k (22940)
• Sheboygan, Wisconsin
20 Aug 09
It is a fine without mucking about with due process or anything constitutional.
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
20 Aug 09
Now why would they do something as awful as being unconstitutional? 

@anniepa (27955)
• United States
20 Aug 09
No, I'm not "ready to be taxed for not having health insurance" because I'm ome of the lucky ones who have it. Currently, my husband and I, our insurance company and my husband's employer are paying for those who don't have insurance, whether by choice or simply not being able to afford it, and can't afford to pay their medical bills, usually quite HIGH bills for ER visits. As it stands now I totally understand there are many people, millions of them in fact, who can't possibly afford the high premiums charged by the greedy insurance companies. Some of them have preexisting conditions and couldn't get insured even if their employer provided it in some cases. I don't "blame" those whose care I'm helping to pay for because I know it isn't their fault in most cases so if there were suddenly a penalty or tax imposed on these people I wouldn't see much point in it. Sure, with all else remaining the same, that may encourage some of the young and/or healthy people who simply choose not to get insurance to do so but for many others it would be a case of "you can't get blood from a stone".
However, the idea of reform is that health care and insurance should become more affordable for everyone and that there would be subsidies for those who can't afford it. I've heard the figure of income about 300% above the poverty limit and under tossed around and that sounds fair. So, it's not as if suddenly the government is going to tell lower and middle income people without insurance that if they don't pay hundreds of dollars out of their own pockets each month in premiums they'll be fined or taxed. Those with the lowest incomes will likely pay little or nothing for their coverage and since they'll actually be able to go to a doctor's office for a visit instead of using the ER for their primary care everyone will ultimately save.
I'd like to ask a question; let's just "pretend" by some miracle an agreement is reached and we actually get health care reform passed. Let's pretend that those of us who already have insurance we're satisfied with really DO get to keep it. If YOU'RE one of those people with insurance and either you, your employer or both pay your premiums and you pay your copays and deductibles will YOU be willing to continue to pay more for all of the above because some people who possibly could afford it as much as YOU can simply choose to use their money on something else and continue to depend on the ER when they do become sick? I guess an alternative would be for those who don't want insurance to sign a waiver and agree to NOT be treated, even in an emergency, unless they can pay upfront but I don't think we as a country have a the stomach for that.
I think the bottom line here is SOMEONE will be taxed, fined, penalized or whatever you choose to call it, someone will PAY for those who can not or will not pay for their own or their families' health care. With costs as they are now I can't blame those who can't afford it and I'd never want anyone to be refused treatment. Having personally known people who have lost their lives because they couldn't afford the tests or treatments that may have saved them, I wish we could do more. However, IF the costs are brought down, IF health care becomes more accessible and affordable for all Americans and IF those who honestly can't afford all or part of their premiums get help paying them I won't be so ready and willing to be "taxed" for their selfishness.
Annie

@anniepa (27955)
• United States
27 Aug 09
I had come to the conclusion that you would perhaps feel differently about the current proposals if they had been made by a Republican or anyone other than President Obama (even though he didn't write the bill) since you clearly have a strong dislike for him but you implied you also oppose the Patriot Act so I'm not so sure. I'm just curious as to what you think the current government's motives are if they don't really care about helping "people like you"?
Annie
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
27 Aug 09
Thank you for your concern for me and others in the same situation.
I can think of only one thing to say.
Democrats are rushing this through for a reason. And it's not a 'good' reason like actually caring for the people.
I was taught to NEVER make a decision under duress, or when you are afraid. We need to keep a level head and think this thing through. The evidence I see, is not good for this bill actually helping people like me.
Remember, we now have the patriot act cause someone told us it was for our own good.
1 person likes this
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
27 Aug 09
Found this...on a discussion I can not find again..lol Computer crashing over and over...lost the URL.
Anyway..
Wow...I did the math using the figures in that article.
46 million without health insurance. Sounds awful!
28 million of those make between $50k and $75k and choose NOT to buy insurance.
14 million qualify for government programs already in existence and have not appliled.
That leaves 4 million not covered and who do not qualify for government assistance.
So...let's just lower the qualifications and make them elligible.
The article was called 10 Healthcare Myths Exposed.

@Sweetchariot (1718)
• United States
19 Aug 09
If it's the tax that I think you're talking about, this started last year. Unfortunately for those who are unemployed, or laid off, have to quickly get new health insurance so they can be covered for more than 6 months of the year...which, in their case, I don't think it's fair. They don't even get half of what they were earning, and now they have to pay full coverage of a health insurance.
I ran into this problem just recently. I got laid off in May, and did not get approved for health insurance until August, although it does go back to the date that I applied. I ended up being approved thru the unemployment services health care, but I was getting a little irritated with their delay, because if it had gone on any longer, I would've had to pay taxes (2,000.00) if it ran into 6 months, when it wasn't my fault for the delay.
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
20 Aug 09
No, this is something within HR 3200, which I hope will not pass in any way, shape or form. This is a proposed penalty if you fail to sign into the governments healthcare and remain uninsured.
I do understand what you are saying about government penalizing you for lateness...but they can take their sweet time about doing what they promise to do for you. And the liberals want THEM in charge of our health and welfare from cradle to grave? Heck, they can't run the post office efficiently...Obama said so. 

@OpinionatedLady (5965)
• United States
19 Aug 09
one more thing to the list of "what the Hell?", I have to say I do not understand how someone who cannot afford insurance can be expected to pay the tax for not having it. Though the one point is that the money should go to the medicaid system to help pay some of those expenses, if only we could trust the government to actually make that happen...
@debrakcarey (19887)
• United States
19 Aug 09
Trust the government? I don't understand...can you repeat that? What does 'trust the government' mean? Are you from another planet..lol Cause that doesn't mean a thing hear on this one. 








