No death squads

I think it is terrible that a hospital can be given the permission to take a person off a respirator without the okay from a member of his/her family! It is morally wrong to decide who can live and who will die. To me, this is going to give them a reason to remove people from respirators that might would have lived and also give them a chance to not let dying cancer patients in the hospital= perhaps on a trumped up flu epidemic!

Life is getting bad for the sick and the elderly, believe me! We are expendable to them. And that angers me!! Every life is worth saving!

Here's a better link. They're talking about an overwhelming pandemic here, not under ordinary circumstances. I definitely wouldn't want to be in any of their shoes should the situation become that bad.

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/nationworld/sfl-swine-flu-crisis-propublica-sboct18,0,2336680.story

While many just now are becoming aware of it because of this flu pandemic, this is really nothing new.

Triage is a very old medical practice. It happens every day in every hospital. Under ordinary circumstances triage means the worst most life threatening cases are treated first, then the ones that could degenerate into life or limb threatening - permanent damage etc and finally the mildly ill or slightly injured are the last to be treated and wait the longest.

But in mass casualty situations whether it's a hurricane Katrina, flu pandemic etc there is a tipping point where there are more, sometime far more people in need of help then there are resources (supplies, equipment and personal) to treat them. The triage pattern then changes. Those not likely to survive are treated last if they survive long enough to be treated at all. That's true no matter what they need to be treated for. It's sad that anyone has to die, but it's the only way to ensure that the fewest people die and the greatest number possible survive.

Believe me, no one wants to kill granny, they don't like having to make these choices. I think you'd be just as unhappy if it was your child or your spouse and 20 others that died because medicine was being practiced on a first come first serve basis instead.

I don't think turning away people, especially people who have already needed treatment in the past - like people with cancer, ms, and other long term illnesses or diseases, and patients who already have a reason to be in the hospital on a ventilator - is a moral or decent 'plan' for any state to make. I'm sure you didn't mean this to be funny, but I read 'godlikeproductions' and just about threw up. Nobody gets the right to play God with a flu epidemic.

If they have a shortage, hello, open up clinics, turn other buildings into makeshift places to hospitalize those with swine flu. At least you'd be able to keep those people separate from other hospitalized people - I'm tired right now and I can't think of the word. Isolation?

Anyway, I completely disagree with this and I don't think other people - general public - would be pleased about it either, especially if they live in Florida and are living with a chronic terminal disease.

wow in florida many people got cancer, what the first aid and movement of the state hospital? they must manage and care every patient as fast as possible=)

I want to suggest that precaution is better than cure, so protect yourself to get infected from swine flu. Always wear the mask when you go out. Ans there is one homeopathic medicine called 'influnzium' you can take this medicine, this is one of the best medicines which you can take precautionary, ofcourse you hav to take advice of your docter.

I certainly hope and pray it never reaches this obviously worse case scenario. I'm telling myself it probably wont and that they just need to be prepared for the worst while hoping for the best. Unfortunately, as horrifying as this seems, there are tines in the health profession when very tough decisions must be made. From what 've heard about the H1N1 flu it's something that particularly hits children and pregnant women as well as the elderly and those with conditions that affect their immune systems. Hopefully everyone, especially those in the risk groups, will do their own part to prevent themselves from being one of those emergency flu patients making it so there's no room for the ones with the "poor prognoses" They should be getting the vaccine as soon as it becomes available if their own doctor who they trust advises it and they should avoid being in crowded situations especially in places where there are other sick people. They should fanatical about washing their hands VERY frequently and coughing or sneezing into their sleeves and no on their hands or on someone else.

I say nobody should panic just yet and we should realize that these hospitals are no doubt working on finding the best way to deal with a pandemic without disrupting the care of others in need of treatment.

Annie

Doctors have always felt that they are akin to God and they like these new powers they are being given I am sure. Has no one woken up to the fact that once they get these guidlines in place that it will pertain to everyone and every illness? People with poor prognosis' have come back strong and lived long healthy lives following illness while people who appear to be getting better drop dead with neither rhyme nor reason to it. And as for the swine flu, don't they feel this whole thing is a little premature? Less people have died of this stupid swine flu than die in the course of the year from the regular flu. Why are they all blowing this so out of proportion. They want to get these mandates in place before socialized medicine takes hold. Florida has such a poor population of retirees and just dirt poor folks. What these laws are aiming at I think is saying let the poor or undeinsured drop dead so they don't cost us more money. I don't think that is fair. I think everyone is entitled to healthcare and a hospital bed when they are fighting for their lives regardless of how much money they may or may not have. Doesn't this whole thing fly in the face of the Hippocratic oats mandate? First do no harm?

Oh my goodness .... deebomb, this sorta reminds me of the old adage; "What's the difference between God and a Doctor...GOD doesn't think he's a DOCTOR! Boy, is this hallowed ground that I am afraid to walk on! This is sooooo controversial, I cannot even wrap my thoughts around it....and so many, many "what if's" keep creeping in the back door of my mind! Like WHOM is charged with the decision? WOW..you have me just reeling....IT IS SUCH A TRIAGE decision! I will have to go away and ponder this for even longer./cheers!

Well we all may not like it....but they are looking at a worse case scarino.
What happens if more people need ventilators than the hospital acutally has. Say you have 100 people that need ventilators due to different illnesses. But you only have 80. Well 80 patients that have the best chance at suviving their illness gets them....while the others do without and die.
If they gave the ventilator to a person THEY knew was going to die no matter what and did not give it to someone who it could have saved...well then you have two dead people instead of just one.
I know that is a cold and calulated way of looking at it....but when things are in short supply hard decisions need to be made.
Lets just hope that the swine flu does not get to the "worse case" scarino.
Hospitals do have budgets. THey don't have endless amounts of money. They can only afford to buy so much equiptment and medicines. So they do they best they can with what they have.

Want my advice...try like heck to NOT get sick this winter. My dad and sister work in the medical field and they said they are both seeing a ton flu cases really early this year. They are already seeing what would be normal when the flu season is in full swing...and we are just at the beginning of it now. It is going to be a BAD regular flu season. Then add swine flu on top of it. This could turn into a "worse case" scarino. Can can hope it doesn't. But it very easily could.