Joy---what is it...do you have it?
@Perspectives (7131)
Canada
February 19, 2008 2:04am CST
It is rather amazing to me that many notable thinkers have focused only on the transience of joy...and how difficult it can be to find...and even harder to hold on to. With that in mind I wondered how many of you define joy...and do you have it? If not...why? What do you think you can do to have more of it in your life.
Richard Wagner said, "Joy is not in things; it is in us." His words remind us to seek out other wise mean and women who, while acknowledging the seemingly fleeting nature of joy they also celebrate its extraordinary power. That is an important thing to remember because it it exists in each of us..then its always within reach.
In my personal and professional experience I have come to see that joy and hope are never separate. I have never met a hopeful person who is depressed..or a joyful person who has lost hope. In my view hope is something other than wishes, and joy is something other than happiness. Often wishes and happiness refer to things and events. People life was different..that they had a better job or partner. Then when they get what they wish...they are happy..for awhile. Then when outer circumstances change...so does their 'joy.'
I know it is possible to be unhappy about many things and still feel joy. For me I define joy as A SUSTAINED SENSE OF WELL BEING AND INNER PEACE. It is a larger connection to what matters. Author Gary Zukov puts it this way; "Real joy, like real power happens when your personality comes to fully serve the energy of your soul." I can relate to that because the more I am able to do what I know I am meant to be doing the more joyful I feel...regardless of outer things I might still wish for.
I see that same principle at play while working with clients. Real joy comes in direct proportion to how much they are able to live their truth. Eventually we each have to answer a wonderful question...and that is what am I really here to do? The work we do can be as simple as becoming an inspiration to others where ever we are...or being an honorable friend, a loving partner, mother, daughter, husband or son. Whatever it is once we are able to discover exactly how we are meant to use our lives for the greater good...real joy cannot help but follow. This one I know for sure!
So...how about you...what does joy mean to you? Is it more outwardly directed to people and events...or is is a wellspring of knowing that comes from deep within?
Whatever it is for you...I wish you more of it...because it sure makes life sweet!
Looking forward to hearing from you as always...
Raia
7 people like this
18 responses
@jimbomuso (950)
•
19 Feb 08
I've just lost a big post just now so I'll keep it sweet. Joy is directly proportional to how much you've suffered(emotionally/physically/spiritually) allthough that does not automatically make you capable of experiancing Joy. It sounds a bit cold!! I'm forever quoting 'The Prophet' by Gibran Khahlil "the flute that plays the joyful tune was hollowed out with the sharp knives of your own grief".
3 people like this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
20 Feb 08
Oh brother...I have had my fair share of fricking fracks when I lost a big post too! Now I never hit the post comment until I copy it first. Then when it goes 'bye-bye' I can just reload and start over. A member suggested that to me and it has made my life sooooo much easier. Now I am not sure if you will be able to do that until you reach 500 posts...but when you do your aggravation quotient will go way down.
I enjoyed your comments on joy...and the quotation by Khahlil. Your insightful reply that, "Joy is directly proportional to how much you've suffered(emotionally/physically/spiritually) although that does not automatically make you capable of experiencing Joy" is true. Some who are able to transform the pain rejoice when joy is there. Others find that too challenging and choose to swim within it without finding a way to move beyond it. Whatever the approach it is their choice to make.
Thanks for your input!
Raia
1 person likes this
@roniroxas (10560)
• Philippines
19 Feb 08
i got joy down in my heart deep deep down in my heart. J-O-Y down in my heart deep deep down in my heart. its a praise song do you that song? i agree that joy is not in things it is within us. but sometimes it is in food lol.
even you have all the richeness in the world if you are not satisfied and you are still insecure then you acan not feel the right essence of joy.
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
20 Feb 08
Yes, I know the praise song you are referring to. From what you have overcome in your life I can appreciate that you of all people know that joy is not an outer thing...but an inner one.
However, I agree with you other things can still bring us joy. My home and the number of things David and I have collected over the years to represent our many passages give me joy when I look at them. However, if I had to pick between possessions or love, friendship, inner peace...I would choose those any day. But like you special foods, a warm cup of tea or coffee on a cold day...any of those things an and do add joy to our life.
There is much wisdom in what you say about riches not being able to provide happiness if there is empty spaces inside. Excellent input again..thanks for being the great friend you are. Did you receive my e-mail asking you if you wanted photos of the glasses or close ups of any more of the collectibles? Let me know it is fun sharing them with you and your children and knowing you enjoy them.
Blessings,
Raia
@roniroxas (10560)
• Philippines
20 Feb 08
yes i did receive that email... and as always i replied to you at once.... hmmm sounds like you did not get my response. i will email it again.
simple things are the one who really brings joy. after a tiring day and on the dinner table i can see my children eating and saying that the food taste good is really a joy. to see them sleeping and see that how big they have grown gives me joy. uncomparable joy. after all we've been tru it is a joy to see that we 5 are all still together
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@Aussies2007 (5336)
• Australia
19 Feb 08
You do ask very difficult questions Raia...
And I am a simple minded man. lol
The only time I usually hear the word "joy"... is when people refer to their children. Their children are their pride and joy.
When I am fortunate enough to experience a rare moment of joy... I usually burst into laughter. The joy is the result of having succeeded in achieving something.
Going along that line... I would have to say that joy is the foundation of happiness.
By the same token... if you are truly happy with your life... that would also provide you with a lot of joy... in the knowledge that you have achieved happiness.
So... achieve or succeed = joy.
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
20 Feb 08
Oh yes, the 'joy' of asking difficult questions...yes I do enjoy getting our 'thinkers' going. We don't want that gray matter to deteriorate...right?
Anyhow I agree with your comment about people and their 'joy children.' Yes, laughter is usually a joyful response...and sound...especially when it bubbles up from deep within. I love to hear people laughing...big...full and unfettered. Even if I am on a mall and people are yukking it up I find myself chuckling away because it is so infectious.
I appreciate your equation...that is good one! Thanks!
Raia
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
20 Feb 08
I can't define joy. I suppose for me joy is the same as peace... it's that moment when I'm in my deepest meditative state. I can draw upon that place at any moment if I can only remember to do so instead of reacting negatively to events, and quite often I do draw on that meditative state/place to find hope.
I have more to say on this I think, but I'm leaving for a trip for a couple of days, so I'll add when I return.
1 person likes this
@lecanis (16647)
• Murfreesboro, Tennessee
22 Feb 08
Thanks for all your kind words. :)
Joy. I think the purest form of joy I can think of is still that meditative state I mentioned before, but since many other things that bring me joy have come to mind.
There is the joy found in relationships with other people. This can be a tough one, of course, because things can and do go wrong in relationships, and therefore finding the joy can sometimes be a problem. However, the joy in the underlying love and hope that comes from those interactions (whether currently positive or negative) doesn't go away even when relationships end or turn sour, in my point of view.
Natural joy is of course something else that is very important to me. The joy of the elements is something that never leaves me, no matter what time of year or environment I'm in. I have yet to find any place where I could not find some natural beauty to marvel at, even in cities where it might be someone's potted plant or a rare patch of grass that catches my eye. The joy of interacting with and being a part of nature is something I carry with me even when I go to less natural places.
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@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
23 Feb 08
You are welcome...they are sincere and I expect you can pick up on that. You have a strong sense of people...and as you say your surroundings and in your at-one-ment with the elements and the natural world. That is something I can relate too because of my studies in Paganism, Wicca and Aboriginal Spirituality. I also gave big nods to the deep joy you feel in meditative states.
We created a sanctuary in the attic and I find immense joy in being there. The other examples you cites are wonderful ones...and I appreciate that you cam back to add more. I am sure your son gives you great joy as well...how are you and he feeling these days? Things have been busy with David and I and often all I have time for is responses here. However, I do think of you...and soul path you are on.
Wishing you and yours many light filled blessings Lecanis...
Raia
1 person likes this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
21 Feb 08
Hello Lecanis...how good to hear from you again. I will look forward to hearing more of your views on this topic whenever you care to add them.
From your initial response I completely understand what you mean about the deep sense of joy, stillness and inner peace that comes through meditative states. Once I made mediation a part of my lifestyle I was able to incorporate more hope...freedom and joy into my life. It continues to support me and has allowed me to disengage from the many mental mind traps that used to eclipse my 'bliss.' A Buddhist teacher gave presented an invaluable teaching that I endeavor to live by. He said that all our suffering comes from our attachments...and in my case that proved to be true. Once I let the past go...and quit projecting and attaching myself to outcomes...there was; and is waaaaaay more room to embrace joyfulness as a way of life.
I will look forward to sharing more with you when you get back. Have a safe, enjoyable trip.
Warm regards to you and yours,
Raia
1 person likes this
@catjane (1036)
• United States
19 Feb 08
Pretty deep subject, yet thought provoking. I think you are right in saying you can feel unhappy and joy at the same time. No one feels happy all the time, but their soul can be filled with joy permanently. It's what helps us get over the bad times. Thinking positively, I think, helps us to feel the joy in us. We were probably born with that feeling and what we do with it depends on our outlook on life and our experiences.
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@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
20 Feb 08
Hello Catjane...are you a cat person too? My hubby and I have five cats and one big dog. Anyway, it would seem that this topic and a few others I have recently posted have had member's 'thinkers' going. I love philosophical discussions and appreciate those we are willing to share them with me.
Your views are well presented and I agree with all of them. I certainly subscribe to keeping attention on the positives in life rather than the negatives. There is a lot to the suggestion that what we focus on expands...so it is better to accentuate what is working to create more of that!
I think you are also right about being born with an innate joy. If you look at children, puppies, kittens...there is a joyful inner freedom that often becomes eclipsed by events and the messages imprinted by others. I know we can reclaim it...but for some there is a lot to work through before reaching that point.
Interesting input...thanks for your contribution.
Raia
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
19 Feb 08
Hi Perspectives, I believe joy has to be within us and cannot depend on position or possessions. It seems to appear most when we literally throw ourselves into some project that will be of benefit to others. The more excited and enthusiastic we become about something, the more joy we experience. It's there within us all the time just waiting to be awakened. Blessings.
2 people like this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
20 Feb 08
I agree with all that you have said. I know that the more love I give out...the more comes back in the most delightful and unexpected ways. I have seen it here and been the recipient of it and it humbles me. People have such an amazing attitude of gratitude here..and are so willing to express it. I value that because it was a lesson my mother taught me early in life...to be grateful for and say so!
I agree with you about the joy...whatever we give attention to does grow...and focusing on joy attracts more of the same.
Yes, it is within us...and each awakening is another blessing.
Thanks for you always thoughtful responses. Are you feeling better now...no relapses? I hope not...take as good care of yourself as you do others.
Raia
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
20 Feb 08
Hello and thanks for dropping by and adding your views to the discussion...much appreciated.
Yes, joy is something that comes from within...and happiness is not something money can buy...or anyone can give us. We need to be open enough to receive it...and appreciate it...for sure.
Raia
@Lakota12 (42600)
• United States
19 Feb 08
JOy to me is watching the sun rise and set. watching nature thats so peacefull. also watching my grand daughter grow and getting her own personality.
als o helpin gwhom ever I can get over hat ever that is bothering them . Helping people brings great JOy to me.
hugs
1 person likes this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
20 Feb 08
You have offered some wonderful examples of joy...and yes, it is usually the simple pleasure that bring it into our awareness. I know what a giving person you are...and your ability to focus on the needs of others rather than dwelling on your own problems is just one of the countless things I love, respect and admire about you.
Thanks for showing your attitude of gratitude and appreciation for the simple abundance in your life!
Hugs and much love,
Raia
@zeloguy (4911)
• United States
25 Feb 08
Joy can be many things...
It can be the name of a person.
http://www.zelo.com/firstnames/findresults.asp?name=joy
It can be a synonym for happiness.
Intense and especially ecstatic or exultant happiness.*
* http://www.thefreedictionary.com/joy
What I think is missing in these definitions is a sense of accomplishment either by the person who has achieved joy in his/her life or for another for which they feel joy... something happened and the positive outlook on life achieved joy for the person.
Thanks and great post
Zelo
1 person likes this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
26 Feb 08
Hello again...glad you like the topic. Yes, chatting about joy is something I enjoy because there are many out there who do not have a lot of it.
I appreciate what you said that joy can come from what has been achieved in life and for the simple abundance in life that we all experience every day if we allow ourselves to experience it.
Even when I had some daunting upheavals in life to work through I am thankful that my mother raised me with an attitude of gratitude. That lesson opened my eyes early in life that there are so many things that can create joy...even when we feel sad. A hug and caring word from a friend or benevolent stranger...a pet that snuggle up and gives their unconditional love. A gorgeous sunrise or sunset...all joyful things that make life sweeter.
Good chatting as always Zeloguy!
Raia
1 person likes this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
27 Feb 08
Thank you..I appreciate your kudos...and your views..thanks for offering them!
Raia
@worldwise1 (14885)
• United States
20 Feb 08
I really believe, perspectives, that joy transcends happiness. As you so eloquently put it, happiness is fleeting. Joy speaks more to the total person. You just know when you are in the presence of someone who is a joyful person. They might be said to be optimists. I have struggled for many years to achieve that level of joy that will lift me out of depression and keep me there. You honestly cannot be joyful when you are depressed. It is getting better as I age(so I've found), because I have managed to cast off the shackles of expectations that others wish for me. Learning to be yourself -to be at peace with yourself -is the road to the ultimate joyful life.
1 person likes this
@skinnychick (6905)
• United States
20 Feb 08
Oh Raia...Joy. I have only recently as you know found true joy- IN ME. I used to find joy in posessions. My joy depended on other people and how they felt about me. 2 wrongs that actually ended up making a right once I realized what was going on..that's nice for a change. I don't like to depend on others anyway. :)
For me, joy is knowing the truth about myself. Knowing my limitations and embracing my triumphs. Happiness can come from people and things for fleeting moments. Joy stays with me and guides me from one dream to the next. One level of self actualization to the next. Joy creates inner peace which comforts me when I need to be comforted. Joy is not anything that can be taken away from me because finally I have learned where joy exists and where it will stay...in me.
I could probably say more but I think some things are better left unsaid sometimes. :) Have a great day Raia and this is another wonderful positive discussion.
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@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
21 Feb 08
Hello again...my joy-filled friend. I love what you presented here...and I so 'get' where you are coming from because of some of our parallel experiences in getting to this point in life. I think we have come full circle in our awareness and realize that no one can feel fulfilled and happy unless they are living 'authentically' within themselves. In my view authenticity comes from being able to acknowledge and satisfy the needs of both our inner and outer 'selves.' From there it is much easier to and walk our talk and have beliefs that are congruent with our actions.
From what we have shared during our various chats I would say that your input here is a clear representation that you are living life on your own terms...and loving every moment of it. No wonder you are feeling blissful these days. The exciting thing about learning valuable life lessons and transforming old patterns is that we rarely have to repeat the old ones again. So congratulations on your many changes. You have earned it all and I truly hope there is no ceiling to how good it can be for you.
Thank you for your positive feedback about this discussion...always good to know how they are being perceived.
Best regards,
Raia
@ranji2008 (53)
• India
20 Feb 08
Hi Raia,
You r right as far as I understood. I would like to add that I am joyful when I have a sense of freedom .It does not matter whether I am in office or at home or alone or with dear ones.I should feel free and breathe easily.
ranji
1 person likes this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
21 Feb 08
Hi and thanks for dropping by again my new friend. You have added another dimension to joy...and I agree with you! A sense of freedom is a VERY joyful feeling. It is pretty hard to feel blissfully happy when people or circumstances are making us feel stressed out and 'boxed' in. Very good point...thanks for sharing it.'
Raia
@dragon54u (31636)
• United States
20 Feb 08
To me, joy is a sudden feeling of complete wonder and happiness. I awoke this morning to snow and, as usual, went outside to get the paper. I had to stop before picking it up off the porch because the beauty of the falling snow nearly brought me to tears. This is joy. Transient and fleeting, but so powerful that it can brighten the day.
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@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
21 Feb 08
I agree with Kalav...your comments are poetically beautiful and eloquently put. Living in Canada we get a lot of snow here...but there is something within the stillness of winter that makes the vibrancy of Spring, Summer and Fall more meaningful.
The contrast of the changing seasons is something I value...even when we are in the middle of the deep freeze we've had. I feel joyful because we are snug, safe and warm and can work from home...a place I love to be.
So yes, joyfulness is something that shows up in the most unexpected ways...just like the beauty of your falling snow. I have included a recent picture of falling snow in Southwestern Manitoba.
Thanks for your lovely comment..and yours too Kalav!
Raia
@Yords1505 (4)
• Philippines
20 Feb 08
Joy... with that question dear Raia, I happened to remember my childhood song.. that play..."Ive got Joy down in my heart, deep deep, down in my heart"... I agree with you that it is a Sustained well being and inner peace. I 'll go with my definition congruently with yours.. It's felt satisfaction on the least things that you have achieved.. . Every Day i feel joy.. every morning that i wake up is a joyful feeling... when i see people smile at me is a joyful feeling... when i touch others lives is a joyful moment for me.. when i made simple things yet have moved someone is a joyful moment for to ponder.. I am the most joyful person if i wake one day at the side of our God.
1 person likes this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
21 Feb 08
Well hello...and welcome to Mylot...and what a wonderful addition you are to this great community after reading your response. Thank you so much!
I really like what you wrote and I can feel the genuine enthusiasm and joyfulness you have exuding through your words. The examples you cite are show that we could all have more joy in our lives if we open ourselves to experiencing it.
Great input and much appreciated! Keep those great ideas coming...
Raia
@Polly1 (12645)
• United States
19 Feb 08
You sure do like to make us think. JOY!! Some of my most joyous moments are being a grandmother. When my little guy comes up to me, smiles, gives me a hug and kiss and says gramma I love you, thats joy. When the teenagers come over to hang out with gramma, thats joy. When you get to watch some of your grandchildren born, thats joy. I believe we have to have sorrow in our lives to be able to know what real joy is. We have to have opposites to compare to. Joy does make life so much sweeter.
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
20 Feb 08
Wow...it must be..so many of you have commented about how I'm getting your 'thinkers' going these days. Maybe I better come up with something on the lighter side for the next discussion or two! (chuckles)
The thing is you all do it so well though...it is hard for me NOT to keep coming up with more. I love to hear the way you...THINK. My brain is starting to get a little tired...getting redundant here..time to sign off soon.
Anyway...I appreciate your examples of simple, joyful events that touch our hearts and minds every day when we are open to experiencing them. What you describe as the love and care from your 'kids'...and I am sure your animals companions bring a sense of joyfulness for sure.
The fact that you have lived through the loss of your beloved and the sorrow of it...and have the wisdom to appreciate the contrasts is admirable. Yes, Polly you are so right about the contrasts...life would be pretty gray without them.
Thanks for your input and on-going support. In the last couple of days I haven't had time to pop over and visit you on your site...but I will. The flow of exchanges has been pretty constant here all day...and you know my goal...a response for every response!
Cheers...sleep well...I'll be heading to bed soon too. It is 1:30 AM here and I miss my Sweetie. Been up in my office all day...keying away and loving every minute and every exchange.
Talk tomorrow..BYE!
Raia
@arkaf61 (10881)
• Canada
19 Feb 08
You are making a lot of sense as usual my friend. I also believe in joy being me rather than something I look for as a result of something.
I have to confess though, that as joyful as I am I have been my down times, where depression seems to take hold. Not for long mind you but it has been there sometimes.
I think that when we are joy it comes out to the others as well. It's something that comes from within outwards rather than the other way around.
And as you say, it does make life sweeter :)
1 person likes this
@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
20 Feb 08
Thank you...I appreciate your positive feedback. These last few discussions have created a lot of joy for me. Hearing about how others feel about Ubuntu, the welcoming and caring support towards Louise...and indirectly me...and now sharing ideas about joy...yep a real win-win all the way around.
In regard to your down times...goodness with all the challenges you have been facing and the GRRRRRR factors with your MIL...and financial stresses...I'd be feeling down at times too. You come across as an an INNATELY positive, problem-solving, resourceful, compassionate person. When life feels a bit sour it isn't always possible to make lemonade. I believe in optimism...but lets be real...sometimes we all need to gripe and feel down in order to be able to pick ourselves back up.
You appear to have great bounce-back resiliency..and an attitude of gratitude..so in my books you already have the joy thing going for you. None of us have it all the time so you are not alone on this one.
I enjoy our chats a lot...thanks for all your interest and support here my great Cyber-pal!
Raia
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@terilee79720 (3621)
• United States
19 Feb 08
Great writing. I hope a lot of people read this and realize how much joy they might have.
Joy,,,is (for us) a conscious choice. We can choose to be enveloped in joy or choose to deny its existence in our lives.
We can even find joy in other events in our lives, if so choose.
Joy and being joyful can be considered a state of mind. It's not necessarily an emotion as many people will see it, rather a part of who you are.
Associated with being 'happy' .....
Thanks for your discussion of Joy....
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@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
20 Feb 08
My goodness...writers love to hear positive feedback about what they offer...and I sure appreciate yours. Thank you! I am glad you like the discussion..it is an upbeat topic...as was the one on Ubuntu. It gives me joy to chat with members about topics like this because their comments provide thermals that give my spirit wings to fly too. So it is a very win-win arrangement.
I like your views on it...and value the comment; "We can choose to be enveloped in joy or choose to deny its existence in our lives. We can even find joy in other events in our lives, if so choose. Joy and being joyful can be considered a state of mind." There is great wisdom in that. I am a huge believer in accepting responsibility for the choices we make...and exercising them. Yes, joyfulness...and an attitude of gratitude is something we can choose. As you have said...it is more about who we are than a fleeting emotion.
Excellent addition...thanks so much for offering it.
Raia
@Gesusdid (1676)
• United States
19 Feb 08
umm Joy to me would be happiness , that equally success so i think i havent reach that point hust yet , i would like to in the following months, Joy overall i think is a great feeling i felt that feeling sometimes but not in a while ..it needs to come back
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@Perspectives (7131)
• Canada
20 Feb 08
Hello and welcome to Mylot. Thanks for adding your views and personal experiences to the discussion. I sincerely hope that the 'great feeling of joy' that you have not felt in awhile returns to you soon.
Sometimes all we need to do to invite it back is to celebrate simple pleasures. Enjoyment with family and friends, eating favorite foods, a good nights sleep, beautiful weather, a hug from a friend. It is there...but when we're not in a place to see and feel it...the experience can be missed.
Wishing you more joyful moments...really soon!
Raia
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