Should Our Pastor Be Removed?

United States
November 13, 2008 2:06am CST
We had an incident at our church tonight that has been bothering me since I came home. A little History: Our church has had a history of trouble (17 pastors in 10 years) that has pretty much stemmed each time from a very bad family in the church. Our new Pastor came to our church in March of this year. Since he has been there we have seen a huge improvement in our church. The church is growing and doing better than it has in years. A couple of months of the growth and th bad family left. Tonight a deacon of the church called a meeting and presented a letter to the pastor that he had received saying that the pastor had stolen money from a church (previously), molested a child in a previous church and had an affair with a lady of another church. The pastor said there was no truth to any of it except the affair which had taken place a few years ago and his wife knew about it and he had asked for forgiveness for it from God and his wife and they had worked everything out. The pastor addressed the church saying that he had been accused of some things that were false and a mistake that was true. So what do you think should happen? I am just so bothered by this that I wanted some opinions from some total outsiders. The reason I mentioned the trouble family that left is that is where the letter came from. Tell me what your honest opinion is. If God forgives do we have the right not to?
8 people like this
27 responses
• Canada
13 Nov 08
Well in my opinion if it came from the "trouble" family then I would not believe it. If these horible things are true then why isn't the famiy of the victum writing the letter?That's who should be ngry that he is still a pastor not these ppl that do not know him and for all yo know this family could have been making things up when they wrote the letter and it just so happens that one thing was true. Just my opinion I hope you get the answers you need. Hugs, StrawberryKisses
2 people like this
• United States
13 Nov 08
Thanks for the response. I think if he was guilty of half of the things the letter said that someone somewhere would have brought charges against him. And as far as the affair I guess that is not illegal, poor judgement, but not illegal. And if he has made that right with God who are the people to say otherwise. Just a very bad situation and I'm sure I will get my answers but sometimes you're to close to the forest to see the trees! LOL
2 people like this
@kareng (9164)
• United States
13 Nov 08
So was he ever convicted of the crimes or prosecuted? It doesn't sound like it--just accused of a crime. Anyone can accuse another of doing xyz, but it doesn't make them guilty. Second thing with this is where the letter came from. The bad family--the troublemaker in the group. If this pastor has led your Church and growth has occurred since last March, it doesn't sound like he has done a bad job there. The affair--his wife has forgiven him and he has asked God's forgiveness. God tells us to forgive. Enough said. I would just sit back and relax. Don't gossip over it, that will just make matters worse in the Church and community. I would expect the pastor will address the issue to the members to put the water under the bridge. Otherwise, there will always be questions.
1 person likes this
@niqbloo (62)
• United States
13 Nov 08
Is it just me, or does it seem like there are a lot of pastors molesting children. What does that say about the Church?
2 people like this
• United States
14 Nov 08
Kind of makes you wonder though how many actually do and how many are falsely accused. What happened to protecting another's reputation? You do hear about it more and more and I think maybe some find church as their perfect cover-up. But on the other hand if you want to really get at someone what better way to stir people up than with the word "molesting" especially when it is children.
@cbreeze (1207)
• United States
13 Nov 08
The troubled family is probably bothered by the progess the church is making in their absence. So they went around digging for information to discredit your new pastor. If he were accused of molesting a child: were any charges brought against him? What was the resolution of the stolen money issue? If nothing came of these issues, then they probably were accusations by someone who was jealous of his accomplishments. As far as his infidelity to his wife, if they have worked it out, then it's also a non-issue. He should not be removed.
2 people like this
• United States
13 Nov 08
Now that was my first reaction to the molestaion charges. Was he charged or convicted? To answer that no he was not. A background check was done on him (which I'm not sure about that idea either but he agreed to it so ok) and as far as a local check (here in our area) he is clean as a whistle! (I just got that news about an hour ago) so hopefully they will leave it alone for the sake of the church now.
1 person likes this
• Australia
13 Nov 08
What I so love about Christians is their ubiquitous habit of assuming gulit by accusation. You yourself point out that the letter came from a tainted source, yet you are so willing to believe the worst that this set of accusations is worrying you? No doubt there will now be people in your congregation who will forever from this time on believe the pastor guilty. Perhaps 17 pastors in ten years might have as much to say about the congregation as it does about the pastors. Lash
2 people like this
• United States
13 Nov 08
Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I've been known to do that! I personally don't believe the accusations. My worry comes from the fact that I am aware of the history of this church. We have seen such an improvement in the church since he has came that I am concerned that the church is going to take a step back. I gaurantee you the past 17 pastors have an opinion of this congregation! LOL Thanks for the response!
@cathya (704)
• Philippines
13 Nov 08
On my own opinion, there were many angels we can consider on this situation: 1. envy. because of the huge improvement made by your pastor to your church, most probably there were members of your church who were envious to your pastor and one brave soul is the letter sender trying to put some dirt on your pastors reputation 2. it could be due to personal revenge coming from the trouble family you mentioned, maybe the pastor tried to help the trouble family and the trouble family misunderstood the help of the pastor. try to look at the different angels from this situation, be a keen observer , listen to both sides of the story. to be honest , i can feel that your pastor is being transparent to you-members of your church because he admitted his past affair with another lady even though it happened years ago and he even let you that he settled things with his wife and asked for Gods forgiveness. and lastly about forgiveness, i guess if we believe in GOD with all our hearts and we would like to be his child we should follow his example. though it will take you long to forgive, what matter is you forgive with all you heart.
2 people like this
• United States
13 Nov 08
I am trying to look at it from all angles. Envy plays a very big role in this scenario and I think it is sad that people say they want a change of reputation but when someone comes in and starts it they really don't want change at all. What is the saying? One step forward and two back. Thanks for responding
@redkathy (3375)
• United States
14 Nov 08
I just went through a six year ordeal at our church. We have a school. It had over 400 students at one time. The Pastor's wife ran the school. Then an associate Pastor came in 2000. Then the trouble started. That man was crazy, however he exposed the unethical money dealings of the previous Pastor. He resigned. They tried to kick the crazy Pastor out but failed. So the Pastor's wife was asked to resign. About 300 students left that same week. Financially strapped we pressed on. We got a new member who was a financial wizard, or so we thought. The Pastor got crazier and finally he left. In the meantime we got a new principal who was a Pastor from another denomination, or so we thought. Finally in 2005 we called a Pastor. The financial guy left and we found out he embezzled 30,000. A little while later we found that the principal had no credentials nor did his family who also worked there. He had taken money too. Used charges for personal items the whole nine yards! I never liked the principal and told him so. He won me over after some time, by using the Bible. These are people that we deal with. They are capable of all sorts of things. Focus on God and what He says. Use the smarts He gave and certainly speak out if you know something to be true. The Pastor could be 100% honest. Yes you must forgive his mistake especially since he openly admitted it. I am sure he asked his wife to forgive him and she did right? God does and we must also. The rest of these accusations could be and probably are, the trouble making family. If I were in your congregation I would do some investigating and find the truth! "Seek and you shall find"
1 person likes this
• United States
14 Nov 08
Wow that is terrible! But as sad as it is we deal with all kinds!
@redkathy (3375)
• United States
14 Nov 08
Yep, If I would have went with my initial thoughts, and said them openly to the others, I could have helped in avoiding a lot of things. Don't sell out your Pastor over a mistake that he admits. He may have been sent by God and then what?
1 person likes this
@robinemz (211)
• Philippines
14 Nov 08
this post is sad because our church had a similar situation.. there has been two pastors removed from the church due to misbehavior. Both of which were accused of money (this was denied but some people can attest) plus the first pastor who got expelled also had a relationship with one of the church member. note that this pastor is married with 5 kids. geeeez.. i believe you need to remove him because he won't realize his mistake and might continue what he's doing while he's still there. don't be blind.
1 person likes this
• United States
14 Nov 08
It is always sad when a Church encounters problems. MAkes it hard to convince othrs that it is a good place to be because they hear of the bad always!
@robinemz (211)
• Philippines
14 Nov 08
you're right. even new members get frustrated and for some even their faith gets affected:(
1 person likes this
@sudalunts (5526)
• United States
28 Nov 08
I think that since the pastor fested up to the allegations and admitted the one and has already asked God's forgiveness and his wife has forgiven it, that stage of his life should be closed. Now, if someone has information that the Pastor molested a child, why is he not in jail. If there is any question about that allegation, it can easily be proven or disproven by calling the department of corrections or so legal department. Since the pastor is doing good things for the, and in order for the congregation to feel comfortable with him the other two allegations can easily be investigated. You know sometimes even Pastors lie, so check it out, just to be sure. I hope the allegations are false, and that your church can move forward and continue to grow. God bless,
1 person likes this
• United States
29 Nov 08
Thanks for responding. Turns out the allegations were in fact false. So I am glad to saythat the church is moving forward. So sad that pople will do things like this to people all for selfish reasons. I'm just glad it didn't work for the enemy this time!
@oldboy46 (2132)
• Australia
17 Nov 08
Look at the big picture as I am trying to do because there are some serious allegations here. Just because this family have caused trouble in the past it does not necessarily mean that they are wrong in their accusations. In fact one of the allegations, the Pastor has admitted to but that is something that he has to work out with his wife and God as well as the other woman involved. The Deacon who read the letter out should investigate further and ask those who made the allegations when and where these claimed incidents happened. If they cannot or are unwilling to provide that information then perhaps the Deacon should be taking to the Deaons at the Churches where the Pastor has been in the past. Unfortunately history is against the Pastor in this instance because in the past nearly every Church has, at some time or other, "hushed up" incidences that have happened. Unless your Church can say they have investigated the allegations and found them to be untrue, the doubt will be there for some people. That could affect people continuing to go to your Church as well as how your Pastor is perceived in the community. These allegations have to be investigated for the sake of the Pastor, his family as well as the Church because until they are, nobody can be sure. I am sure if it was explained to the Pastor in this light, he will understand it is for the sake of the Church and his standing in the community rather than a belief that he has committed these crimes. It is an awful situation for everyone involved and although it might just be spite on the part of the people who wrote the letter, the Pastor does need to be cleared through an investigation. That way nobody can say it has been "swept under the carpet" and your Church has condoned these alledged illegal activities.
1 person likes this
• United States
17 Nov 08
When he came to the church there was a local Background check done as there is with any Pastor that comes in because they are local people and it was fine. Now at this point in the game there was an investigation done by contacting the previous church he had pastored. They were called and asked to meet with the Deacons of our church and they agreed. During this meeting it was discovered that there was not only no money missing from this previous church but at one point when this man was pastoring this other church the church itself had come upon some financial hardship and this pastor went and personally mortgaged his own home and put this church back on it's feet. The family that sent the letter to the church is now claiming that all the stuff they said was told to them by another person and they can't contact those people (hmmmm how convienient). Now the Pastor has gone out on his own and with his own money obtained a more in depth Background check just to reassure those that may still have doubt and it will be 30 days or so before it is back. So it is all working out ok but it is amazing how evil some people can be. Thanks for responding!
@Ravenladyj (22937)
• United States
14 Nov 08
I have to say that the church needs to look into it more rather than goin on the words of the bad family OR the pastor himself..they need to investigate it PARTICULARLY the child molestation bit IMO....Once that is done and the church is confident there is nothign to worry about then things go on..If however there is truth to it then the church should act accordingly...As far as the affair goes...Really its nobodys damn biz...It was between him, his wife adn god....end of story..
1 person likes this
• United States
14 Nov 08
As of now the stealing of money was investigated by simply contacting the other church. There was no truth to that accusation. The molestation accusation is being investigated and as far as we know right now there was no charges filed so it's looking like it is going to work out well. I think they are invstigating it pretty thouroughly both for the church to be assured and to clear him at this point. But it will take a little time for a further investigation.
@sid556 (30999)
• United States
14 Nov 08
I would definitely take into account where this info came from before judging the man. I would also want answers. Obviously one thing this man was accused of was true. An affair, while wrong can be forgiven and especially if he has worked it out with his wife. The fact that he admits to it does make him appear to be honest but I still would want more answers. Could it be that he got caught and the affair was more easily proven? The other two things you mentioned...if true, you surely do not want him running your church. I would keep an open mind on this one while demanding answers and an investigation into the other allegations. Surely, if he has been accused of these things in the past and the accusers have enough proof to make such accusations then there should be a paper trail somewhere. I think all the church members should band together and demand answers and at the same time...innocent until proven guilty. If you don't do this, there will always be doubt & wonder in your mind.
1 person likes this
• United States
14 Nov 08
I agree because if they don't investigate it the first thing that goes wrong this will be brought back up again. If they can disprove it then it would be shut up about.
@baileyq (68)
• Philippines
14 Nov 08
It doesn't matter where the letter came from, in my opinion. What matters is whether there is any truth behind it. If the letter came from the "bad family", it certainly raises more doubts. But, may I ask, why are they called the "bad family"? Do you know them personally? Enough to know whether the term is justified or not? What about the pastor? Does anyone know him enough to judge him? What about the churchgoers? Are they free of sin? When a pastor leads the church, he is assigned to lead the people, that is true. But he is not assigned to be God, nor to take his place. In my opinion, it doesn't matter who is reading the Bible, it's the BIBLE that matters, the words in it that should guide us, and some of these words are about justice and punishment, which is God's to give (or so it says in the Bible) and also sin and forgiveness of those sins. He is human, after all, and like all of us, once repentant, deserves forgiveness. So, who wants to cast the first stone? Anyone?
• United States
14 Nov 08
The "bad family" have been the ones that have been responsible for running every pastor they have had out. Either by demading so much of them that they get tired of it and left or by srutinizing them until they get worn down and threw their hands up. Basically it was always a power struggle with this family. They were fine until something didn't go their way and then look out the nit picking started. As far as the pastor, he has a reputation for being a no-nonsense kind of fella. He' s a pretty straight shooter as we call it! LOL If he sees something going on he confronts it head on and clears the situation up. When he came there he walked right into a bad situation of a Baptistery being put in that had been put on hold due to lack of funds, so he just point blank asked how much money was in the building fund and started some fundraisers and things and got the funds together and had it installed. Now this family was mad because he sort of got credit for a project that they had started (told you it was a power thing with them)so they threw a fit and left the church. Now these are the people that have made these accusations so go figure I guess!
@DWSMOMMY (55)
• United States
14 Nov 08
WE had a similar incident at our private Christian school. Our principal, who was a man was accused of using his power to try to get students and faculty to sleep with him. He said he didn't do it but in the end he had. The pastor might need to go, I mean there are molestation allegations and those are serious. They might need to investigate further just to be safe.
1 person likes this
• United States
14 Nov 08
I hope they hurry the investigation along so it doesn't have time to stir more trouble in the congregation. I don't know about him leaving because to a certain point, if he leaves now, it may seem to some as "running" so I think if he is innocent of these accusations he should at least see the investigation through to clear his name.
• United States
14 Nov 08
I tend to think it came from the bad family. If he was really accused of molesting a child, then there should be a record of it with the police. If the letter didn't say who accused him or which church it was so your church leaders could check it out, then I would consider it to be malicious and anonymous, and I don't think such severe accusations should be accepted anonymously.
1 person likes this
• United States
14 Nov 08
I think there would be some kind of charges against him (legally) if it were true.
@barehugs (8985)
• Canada
14 Nov 08
Lets face it! As a member of a Church that has had 17 pastors in 10 years You should have been looking for another Church long ago. Why stick with a losing organization that has so many deep rooted problems? As for the New Pastor, of course he's hiding something(you can count on that.) Why would he choose a such a Church, if he was upright and aboveboard? He's looking to hide his past disgressions in a Church where such problems happen every day.
1 person likes this
• United States
14 Nov 08
Actually when he came there he wasn't quite so happy about it. He came because he said God lead him there and you could just tell that he wasn't really that thrilled about it but he made the best of it and has done very well. As for me leaving ...well.. I am kind of in the same situation he was in. I know God has me there for a reason (although I sometimes wonder why! LOL) but nevertheless if I went by my own feelings I probably would. Thanks for responding
@kaui_808 (191)
• United States
13 Nov 08
Well you obviously already know the answer to your last question. We have no right to not forgive anyone, and yes I mean anyone. God has no measure for sin, a sin is a sin and weighs the same. This is not to say they all do the same destruction, that is a response for another discussion. Before you take any advice from anyone your church should first pray and fast. Seek God in all you do right, and this is no different. He will direct you in the right way, and if your church is truly praying and seeking God He will give you a unified answer. As for my opinion, your church should not only forgive your pastor but support him by investigating this letter and the truth. You owe it to everyone involved. He will be vindicated and those with doubt will be shown truth and those who appose God's appointed will be brought out for all to know. The previous church that is in question should be more than happy to supply answers. Be open about what the church is doing and keep your pastor in the loop. If innocent he will endure. If guilty, well you'll know. God tells us we will know them by their fruit. Look at his fruit and you will know But more importantly remember God is always on His throne. Nothing will shake Him from it and no one will take His place. Honor God in all you do! God Bless my prayers will be with you.
• United States
14 Nov 08
True. I know God will supply all of our needs. This was just such a blo after all the improvements but then again satan has the best of timing doesn't he? Prayer will bring the right decisions we can already se som results from that. Thanks for responding!
• United States
13 Nov 08
well, i'd say the bad family is spreading lies. or they are right. there's no way to really say. I think someone needs to find the previous churches and ask them. if yoiu can get enough proof of his mistakes then he needs to go . but if yoiu cant find anything on him other than the affair then the bad family is just spreading lies out of jealousy and spite.
1 person likes this
• United States
14 Nov 08
I think the deacons and elders of the church will probably be checking with other churches if they haven't already. Thanks for the response
@laglen (19779)
• United States
13 Nov 08
I would suggest an investigation just for the safety of the kids. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
• United States
13 Nov 08
The latest report is that there was one done locally and it is fine. I guess they are still working on a more extensive one but he is from this area so nothing is expected to show up.
@catdla1 (6005)
• United States
13 Nov 08
Congratulations on finding a good Pastor to lead your church. It sure sounds like he's done a marvelous job, with growth within the church. It certainly sounds like he is a beacon within the community, drawing new people to your parish (and hopefully a few who had stopped participating). My question has to be this: Why would you want to put more credence in the inuendo spread by a 'very bad family', over what you actually see in your Pastor? Yes, he had an affair in the past, for which his wife has forgiven him, and hopefully God too. We're all human, we all make mistakes. Are our lives shaped only by the mistakes that we've made? Are past mistakes more important to the people of your parish, than the goodness you see before you? If you really believe that there is a perfect, unflawed person alive who happens to be a Pastor and is willing to lead your church, then you are probably looking at another 17 Pastors in the next 10 years. God gave us a commandment not to bear false witness against neighbors. Are you not doing that by accepting rumor spread by this 'bad family'? Also, judge not lest you be judged. Personally, I'd praise the Lord for sending a Pasor worthy of your parish. Is the parish worthy of him?
1 person likes this
• United States
13 Nov 08
I don't put any credence in it at all. My worry and concerns is for the church itself. I hate to see it take a step backwards. mistakes. Are our lives shaped only by the mistakes that we've made? Are past mistakes more important to the people of your parish, than the goodness you see before you?I truly hope not! Have a great day!
@lisa0502 (1726)
• Canada
13 Nov 08
First of all I feel that if this man has asked God to forgive him and his wife has forgiven him it is not the place of anyone else to hold it against him. Secondly if the troubled family sent the note then maybe it is not true. If this Pastor has made a difference for the good in the church then he should continue. Can the decon talk to the other churches and find out if this man really was accused of these things? I think that God will deal with any of these mans wrong doings. The only thing I would really advise is that if you have children just watch over them and be careful. Just because you are careful does not mean that you believe what has been said, you just have to protect your family. But no I would not believe it unless there was proof and I would hope that the decon would take care of the pastor if it were true.
1 person likes this
• United States
13 Nov 08
Agreed Being careful is just smart parenting. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure!