Right to refuse medical treatment denied

@TLChimes (4822)
United States
May 15, 2009 1:41pm CST
Judge Rules Against Religious Withholding of Medical Treatment? story here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30763438/ This boy's doctors say he would have a 90% chance of making a full recovery from cancer WITH the treatments. The family opted instead for “alternative medicines” based on their religious beliefs. Now, I'm not sure how I feel about this. I think we have the right to live and die as we see fit. I think we have the right to become parents or not. I think we, adults, have the right to pick what we put our bodies through. The thing is that this is a boy. He isn't old enough to FULLY understand the choice he is making. I also am struck by the reason the parents are refusing. If he had little chance either way and they wanted to try something new.... *shrug* I may be more comfortable with things. I also saw that the state child protective services is involved. I get a bit itchy when they step into things because I've seen them mess up too many times. So what do you guys think of a child's right to refuse medical treatment? How about adults?
8 people like this
13 responses
• United States
15 May 09
A child has no right legally to make those types of decisions those are left to the parents to make doctors are obligated to save lives they take a hypocratic oath when they become doctors now if this child didnt have much of a chance either way i would say let them do what they want - its a family matter BUT because this child had a 90% chance of full recovery WITH modern medicine I say the doctors have every right to try to help this child even if it means calling upon CPS for help I dont understand people who deny medical care for their dying child because it goes against their religion seriously if my God or Goddess ever put me in that situation and told me that I couldnt save my child... I would become an atheist real quick I would sell my soul to the devil(if there were a devil) to save my childrens lives
5 people like this
• Canada
15 May 09
Great mind think alike, eh? Religion just plays a part in too many decisions in my opinion. I prefer Mother Earth. What is good for her is good for us and vice versa. Rational thinking.
3 people like this
• United States
15 May 09
sounds rational to me
4 people like this
@TLChimes (4822)
• United States
15 May 09
Good to know there are so many of us "wise" minds that think a like. I would move heaven and hell to help my kids. I do now. I couldn't put anything in front of their health.
3 people like this
@uath13 (8192)
• United States
15 May 09
I believe there's such a thing as taking a religion too far. This is one of those cases. Sometimes someone has to step in when the parent's aren't thinking clearly.
4 people like this
@uath13 (8192)
• United States
15 May 09
If it was only the parents that's one thing. They can chose to follow their religion & not seek health care for themselves. Health care for a child who is too young to make his own decisions , especially to follow a religion that will kill him , shouldn't be optional.
4 people like this
@mommyboo (13174)
• United States
15 May 09
This is why people who use religious reasons irritate me so much. They are in essence putting that religion up on a pedestal where it doesn't belong! Sorry but my life or my child's life or my friend's life or my mom's life is more important than religion! Opportunities for us are clearly MORE important than religion. Using religion as an excuse for being a deadbeat, not getting health care, not going to school, not doing whatever... is the laziest craziest thing ever, and to allow someone to DIE over it? Totally nuts.
3 people like this
@TLChimes (4822)
• United States
15 May 09
I agree with you both. It gives religions bad names when it is misused like this. And to use it to allow a child to die? I think not.
3 people like this
@cripfemme (7698)
• United States
16 May 09
This is always a tough issue for me. Overall I support the rights of people to refuse medical treatment if they deem it is not best for them. But children don't have full decision making rights in this society and by no means do I think they should. Their little brains are still developing yet at the same time I know what harm surgery and treatment for various kinds of things can do and do to a kid. I was harmed by a surgery that was suppose to make me walk. I still don't walk and in fact am less mobile then I was before the surgery. No one listened to my objections.They said I didn't have any choice cause I was a little kid. So its a double edge sword.
@TLChimes (4822)
• United States
16 May 09
Very sharp double edge sword..... I think it's the fact that there is a 90% chance of getting better with the treatment, that it is a child, and that there hasn't been a better change - that's what makes me ok with the ruling.
1 person likes this
@Pose123 (21635)
• Canada
15 May 09
Hi TLChimes, This is a question that has been debated for a long time but I don't think that any child should die because of the parents religious beliefs. On the other hand I think that each case should be considered on it's own merits. What are the chances that the alternative medicine will work just as well or better? I know some adults who refuse cancer treatments because of the harmful side affects, and often they live longer than someone who takes the treatment. If it was something simple like refusing a blood transfusion, than I think it should be done over the objections of the parents. If parents have another plan that has been known to work before, then I think it's a different matter. Christian Scientists have for years refused medical treatment, but will go to a hospital to have bones set and will also take medication for extreme pain. Their method of healing has been proven to be very successful in years past although I don't hear much about them today. The Roman Catholic Shrines have also had a big success rate but other than those two, there is little evidence of religious healing. I'd say find out more about those alternative medicines before deciding whether you agree with the judge or not. Blessings.
3 people like this
@TLChimes (4822)
• United States
16 May 09
Dearest Pose, You make a very good point. Like I said I'm a bit shaky on this one because it's a child instead of an adult. I am normally all for peoples right to treat illness as they see fit.... but as with everything their is a line - a balance.
2 people like this
• Canada
15 May 09
Well, if it was a tossup as to which treatment might work, then, fine, let the parents flip the coin. But with a 90% recovery rate with that treatment, why would anyone in their right mind chose otherwise? Sure, I see the reasoning for Child Services to be involved. To take the parent's 'right to choose' away and make a sensible decision for what is in the best interest of the child. Not so the parents can follow some fanatical religious choice.
3 people like this
• United States
15 May 09
Its sad that the parents dont have the child's best interests at heart! They are the kids parents for Gods sake!
4 people like this
@TLChimes (4822)
• United States
15 May 09
As a mom, I would use EVERYTHING to see my kid healthy... I know I would because I do. I try every trick I know. I don't know how anyone could hurt, allow someone to hurt, or NOT get the treatment a child needs.
3 people like this
15 May 09
Hi TLChimes, once again we hear of these religious nuts, what right have they got to decide on their child's life, they can't risk their child's life for goodness sake, I really cannot understand some people and I think it will be great if the child were taken into custody so he can get treatment. They have the right with their own lives but not when its comes to a child whe does not know his own mind but just go along with his parents because they say so. Tamara
@TLChimes (4822)
• United States
15 May 09
Children first! That's what I feel, that's what I think, above all else. I couldn't do what these folks tried to do. I think adults should be able to do as they wish but kids....
3 people like this
@Stiletto (4579)
16 May 09
If an adult wants to refuse medical treatment, whether it's for religious reasons or otherwise, that's up to them. As far as a child is concerned then I think it very much depends on the age of the child, their intellectual ability and their medical circumstances. There was a case here in the UK fairly recently of a 14 year old girl with a terminal heart condition who refused further treatment because, after numerous operations and treatments, she didn't want to suffer any longer. She just wanted to live what was left of her life in peace and to die with some dignity. She was making an informed choice about how she wanted to live and die which is fair enough. In the case of this particular child I think it's right that CPS are involved. The parents sound nutty, the child is 13 years old and can't read - I'm finding it hard to accept he's making a carefully considered and well-informed decision. I think the judge is absolutely right when he ruled that "the state’s interest in protecting the child overrides the constitutional right to freedom of religious expression and a parent’s right to direct a child’s upbringing". Adults can take risks with their own lives, they don't have the right to take risks with their children's lives.
2 people like this
• Canada
17 May 09
To me, the fact that he still cannot read at 13, says that he has been neglected all his life somehow. At that age, I was in spelling bees, and was able to spell Grade 13 words. What have they been doing with him if not teaching him to read for crying out loud?
2 people like this
@TLChimes (4822)
• United States
17 May 09
I think the parents sound a bit off. Not because they are using religion as the reason but because he can't read, because they would but their child in danger. I understand why the 14 year old picked to live what was left of her life... but this boy has a 90% chance of DYING without the treatment so for me.... they could maybe do their treatments as well as the doctors.
1 person likes this
@TLChimes (4822)
• United States
18 May 09
Even children with disabilities can be taught to read. My 5 yr old ASD child is writing her name, reading some simple, familiar words. She ages at a 3 year olds level so that says a lot. Imagine at 13?
• United States
17 May 09
When I heard this on the news I was dumbfounded that the parents wouldn't want to help their child. We have the power to think. That is what makes us human. As humans we develop treatments to cure disease. God gave us the ability to think. He created us in his image. If we have the ability to create something to cure we should use that cure. This child has a right to live. I believe that the court did the right thing where this child is concerned. I think about people like Lance Armstrong who fought the odds and pulled through. This was a miracle. Miracles do happen. I believe that medical treatments are miracles that will work with the help of our faith in God.
1 person likes this
• United States
17 May 09
I know many Jehovah's Witnesses that use herbal cures. Why would they use them if they didn't think it would "cure" them?
1 person likes this
@sulynsi (2671)
• Canada
19 May 09
"I was dumbfounded that the parents wouldn't want to help their child" Can this really be asserted? Did these parents refuse all treatment to their son? Wasn't he at the hospital? I haven't seen any evidence to suggest they are uncaring. Could you please clarify the comment about JWs and herbs. I don't see the relevance to this case. Thanks
1 person likes this
@TLChimes (4822)
• United States
17 May 09
Great take on the religious part of this! I love it! See, that's how I feel. That's why Doctors are there. It's what they are put on Earth from. And there is such a thing as taking some religions too far. I think this is a great example of it.
2 people like this
@katprice (806)
• United States
15 May 09
Many people believe that its actually the chemo that kills, not the cancer. There are many alternative methods of treating (and curing) cancer that do not involve conventional western medicine. People should be able to choose and not be forced into a "treatment" program that typically does not help.
3 people like this
@TLChimes (4822)
• United States
15 May 09
When it's a child I worry more then about an adults right. I think every adult should be able to choose.... not sure how I feel about the child.
3 people like this
@twoey68 (13627)
• United States
19 May 09
While I respect ppl's views on their religion when it comes to a child who hasn't chosen that religion then it becomes an issue of parents forcing their beliefs on their kids. The fact that these parents would rather see their child die then let him have treatment tells me alot about them. Mainly that they are selfish and their god is unforgiving. I think in cases like this someone needs to step in for the child and do what's right by them. [b]~~AT PEACE WITHIN~~ **STAND STRONG IN YOUR BELIEFS**[/b]
1 person likes this
@TLChimes (4822)
• United States
19 May 09
Well said. It's nice to see you.
@CatsandDogs (13963)
• United States
16 May 09
If it's an adult, I'd be ok with it but this is a child. A child has no say in what the parents allow to happen. Now medically speaking, that child should be given every chance at survival. As you know, cancer is no joke. It can be very painful if left untreated and gosh, what a way to die! Alternative treatments don't always work so why not give the child every chance at surviving? Parents can be stupid in their way of thinking and aren't always good parents that's why the social services have to step in. Not that they're right all the time for they're not but a child has no say in what's to be done where as an adult does.
1 person likes this
@TLChimes (4822)
• United States
17 May 09
Yeppers! There is no balance in this. I don't see why the parents don't try THEIR method with the more conventional treatments. That would make the most sense to me. But hey, I what do I know?
1 person likes this
@celticeagle (159936)
• Boise, Idaho
19 May 09
Religious fanatics are never a good thing. I think everyone has a right to their own philosophy and to follow their own guidelines in the type of medical help they chose. No one has the right to dictate what a person can or can't do in this area. People need to be aware and proactive when it comes to their medical care. It is their own responsibility. Yes, I agree. When CPS gets in the mix it can get hairy.
1 person likes this
@TLChimes (4822)
• United States
19 May 09
Yeah... this is a real tough case for me. I know what I would do but then... that's just me.
• India
29 May 09
Hello my friend TLChimes Ji, Well, I think parent should be allowed the way they wish to be treated their son. I do not think any one else, other than boy's parent are involved. Could court give in writing for any un-toward consequences resulting after treatment. Could anyone say taht boy will survive and if they can not, let parents decide the way thet wish. May god bless You and have a great time.