Just thinking and had an interesting thought, all opinions welcome!

@JenInTN (27565)
United States
August 31, 2012 8:12am CST
OK..I had this Hebrew Christian Tradition class and had to write a paper on a theological book of my choice so I decided to read one that attempted to explain some of the behaviors exhibited by God in the Old Testament. Unfortunately there were alot of references, but there were no answers..it was pretty much "just because." Now there were circumstances discussed that compared some of the actions by God by saying.."Imagine how you would feel if?" Ok..this led me to wonder if it is true that we are created in his image..if maybe that is more true than what we have previously thought. I can see while reading it for class that as the Bible goes forward into the New Testament, there is less interaction with his people and a more "love" promoted relationship versus do or be punished. So my thought is...if Adam and Eve were the first people, perhaps they were like first children. God was learning too. Maybe it took him a while to accept the repercussions of the Free-will that he had given people and it wasn't easy when they didn't follow as he wanted. Just as a parent is with their children. Perhaps our imperfect emotions are not imperfect at all. Anxious to hear your thoughts.
10 people like this
23 responses
@1hopefulman (18548)
• Canada
31 Aug 12
Very thought-provoking post! Genesis 1:27 King James Version (KJV) 27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. What does that mean that God created man (man and woman) in his own image? To me, it means that we can think and feel like God. That we have the capability of manifesting all his attributes in a limited or small-scale way compared to Him. God can paint the sky with a beautiful sunset and we can make a painting or take a picture of the same beautiful sunset. We have enough to grasp in a limited way his love, justice, wisdom and power. That if we want, we can be like Him on a small-scale way. This is what it means to me that we were created in His image. So every event recorded in the Bible or everything that takes place or that we do and say: we can grasp why God did or allows such a thing to take place. And when we do that and act like God would act then we have taken a giant leap. Just curious: which book did you choose? All the best with your project!
2 people like this
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
1 Sep 12
The book was supposed to be an answer to the Old Testament called "IS God a Moral Monster?" I was a little disappointed because the author was pretty much attacking another author throughout the book because he was atheist and had apparently wrote something about the way God acted in the Old Testament. I think that all those things you mentioned are certainly things that we can take by being created "in his image" but I just wonder if the other emotions are ones we inherited too. We do have to learn to control them too and they are a challenge sometimes. In the Old Testament God could become angry very quickly. Thanks for responding!
@1hopefulman (18548)
• Canada
1 Sep 12
I don't know exactly why you say that God had a quick temper. The flood of Noah's day came 2370 years after man was expelled from the paradise. God had Noah built a huge ark that must have been the talk of the world at that time. It was huge structure the size of a football field and three stories high. It took Noah about 40 to 60 years to built it. He also had Noah preach about the coming flood. All this time mankind just became worse and worse. I think God was very patient with mankind. Sometimes people just don't listen and take warnings seriously.
1 person likes this
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
2 Sep 12
arc I meant
• United States
31 Aug 12
Wow, what a topic for discussion. You really want our brains to go into overdrive. There are a few topics I rarely discuss, one of them being religion. But, you do have a point that makes me want to discuss it. When you do think about it, we were made in God's image. But, then again we must think about the other side that led us to do evil. That is all I will say.
1 person likes this
@1hopefulman (18548)
• Canada
31 Aug 12
But do we have to do evil? Can God do evil? Has God done evil, or is it that some of us do not take the time or want to take the time to impartially judge an event fairly?
1 person likes this
• China
1 Sep 12
Never had something evil we want or should do,all of it become evil only because of our thoughts,god creat us and provided us cerebration so some of us stared to think we are the master of the world,begin losing ourselves.
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
1 Sep 12
Sorry ElusiveButterfly...I am always in overdrive. I am not one to discuss topics within certain environments but if it is a laid back environment, I will discuss it s little. Religion is one of those subjects that draw great passion out of people. I just remember that whenever I do and stay open to people and their thoughts. @hopefulman...evils is one of those things that I have questions about too. You know that the event with the apple took place quite a while before Lucifer was to have fallen. @ lotterylover...I think that perhaps situation may determine the word evil on occasion. In the Old Testament there were a lot of situations that made me a little uncomfortable.
@carmelanirel (21108)
• United States
31 Aug 12
No, G♥d is perfect and so was man, until he,(he as in mankind or humankind), bowed down to the enemy. G♥d was, is, and always will be perfect and the example of Adam and Eve disobeying is good for us parents who have done everything to train their child up, only for them to fall away from what was taught to them.
• United States
31 Aug 12
Oh, and as for the free-will part? He wanted a relationship with man, if He had "made" man not turn away, that would be like a relationship where one partner is controlling the other, and that is not a true loving relationship...When one freely give their love, that is something very special..
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
1 Sep 12
Thanks for the response! I just couldn't help but wonder in the beginning Testaments that he was having a tough time with the free-will thing. It almost seemed like two different Gods in the Old and New Testaments to me.
1 person likes this
• United States
2 Sep 12
Jen, I should share this video I just saw...The reason it seems like 2 G♥ds is because the Christians separated themselves away from the root, the Hebrew G♥d and made their own. Now you said in the beginning of the NT, that would be Matthew and where it talks about Jesus' family tree. Is that the part you are talking about? Because if you are asking about the changes the NT made, that wasn't G♥d, that was man...
@allknowing (54662)
• India
31 Aug 12
I go by the norm 'God of one's understanding'. That has saved me from taking part in any debates relating to religion. My understanding is that God is the Creator and expects us to bring Him in our life just as we would expect that from our children. I further want to say that God is lonely and therefore creates situations so that we bring Him in our life. I also believe that this whole process of religion is very complicated. One should live a life of morality and not be a nuisance to others. I am not sure if I have contributed to your topic in any way.
@allknowing (54662)
• India
1 Sep 12
@lottery....The question is, if God loves us all unconditionally then why does he not prevent so many bad things happening in the world. I came up with this logic that perhaps God is lonely and so he wants people to come to him for help. As I said that religion being so complicated it is best that each one interprets the way it suits them.This has worked for me. I am forever in the attitude of gratitude and so able to face situations however adverse they may be
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
1 Sep 12
You know I was introduced to a very strange concept about the possibility that God had a wife. Some people claim that a particular fertility image found in some excavations were related. Popular belief is still that he didn't but I just thought I would share that. I question some behaviors in the Old Testament. Interesting thought about the other worlds lotterylover.
@allknowing (54662)
• India
1 Sep 12
We as Catholics no longer follow the old testament. In there, there is a lot that is considered 'old fashioned'. Whatever be the debate here Jen, we we will all get back to square one as there will be so many unanswered questions at the end of it. So 'let sleeping does lie!' I am happy with my theory. I have come this far although I was brought up in an environment where everything was a sin. Now I decide what is a sin to me, because what is a sine to you may not be a sin to me and vice versa!!
1 person likes this
@savypat (20248)
• United States
31 Aug 12
An interesting discussion. I am a little confused about the question. You wnat me to answer the question as though I was The Hebrew-Christian God? What would make this very hard for me is the matter of time. Someplace in these teaching is the concept that God is all knowing, meaning he knows all that happened in the past and all that will happen in the future. Since the children he is creating have a limited time of existance, as God I would be experimenting, the duration of each child's life would be so short to me that my involvement with them would be little more than the involvement of any human with a mouse. Or even a fruit fly In other words it would be much more a science project than a emotional one. If you were looking for an emotionally involved God how could you describe this except as a monster. Anyone that would create humanity as it is, with starvation, pain and constant strugles throughout its history would be more the conception of the Devil then a Heavenly Father.
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
1 Sep 12
Valid thoughts savypat. I have very real issues with these same things too. It is hard for me to conceive some of the things that happened throughout the Old Testament and when I chose the book I did to read, I was hoping there was something in there that would shed some light on it all. No luck, but it made me think so I guess that was what it was all about. Thanks for responding!
@1hopefulman (18548)
• Canada
4 Sep 12
"Anyone that would create humanity as it is, with starvation, pain and constant strugles throughout its history would be more the conception of the Devil then a Heavenly Father." Bu God didn't create us that way. We brought this about ourselves by our disobedience to his commandments. We can grow an abundance of food and there is an abundance but we don't work together and share and care. Some people have billions of dollars and some people are starving. Who's fault is that?
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
15 Sep 12
The Kings presented in the bible with all their riches and women, well, these were rewards for their loyalty. Land and generations blessed here on earth riddle the first part of the Bible. Do you think it is because at that particular time that heaven was not an option? I wonder about that because it was so much later that it was mentioned and it was in the New Testament that Jesus went to preach in hell.
@ANTIQUELADY (36491)
• United States
31 Aug 12
HI JEN, I certainly am no expert on the bible & to me the Old Testament is really hard to understand but i think u have made a very good point in your thoughts of this. We are all God's children & he is our Father. hope u have a happy weekend. Give that sweet baby a hug from me.Our little one is going to be in her first pagent tomorrow[boo]. My son & ryan have taught her the awfullest smile to use, lol. She looks like a little monkey. T.J. is not to thrilled about pagents either.
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
1 Sep 12
Oh..how fun! I will give her a hug from you for sure. It will be a reason to give her some extra loving. Thanks for responding Jo
1 person likes this
@ANTIQUELADY (36491)
• United States
1 Sep 12
She didn't use 'that smile' but won first runner up.
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
2 Sep 12
Congrats
1 person likes this
• United States
2 Sep 12
You came to the conclusion I did. Like a first time parent , G-d thought all He had to do was say No , Don't do that and Adam and Ever would obey. Wrong! And He got angry and it took until Jesus came down and got about half the ideal audience for Him to be over it.
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
2 Sep 12
The early God did exhibit alot of anger. I have issues with the Old Testament for sure Sarah. Thanks for responding!
1 person likes this
• United States
3 Sep 12
That is my G-d! He has a bad temper, just like me! He keeps grudges, just like me! We have things in common!
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
15 Sep 12
1 person likes this
@samar54 (2456)
• Egypt
31 Aug 12
Yes, God created us in his image and said Muhammad, peace be upon him in the Hadith : "God created Adam in His own image, sixty cubits tall"
@1hopefulman (18548)
• Canada
3 Sep 12
As far as I can remember a cubit is from the elbow to the fingertip which is about 17 inches and so that might make this person over eighty feet tall. Who was so tall?
1 person likes this
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
15 Sep 12
That is pretty tall. Wasn't there some scrolls found that showed the original size of him was a mistake by the scribes? No..that was the Goliath right?
@samar54 (2456)
• Egypt
15 Sep 12
Do you know that after the doomsday all people will by this tall ?
@buenavida (7513)
• Sweden
4 Sep 12
Hi, Jen.. Interesting discussion. We human beings often think of things from our own limited perspective, so we need to read and study the thougts of God in his written word, to be able to see things at least partly from His point of view. Long before the evil angels were cast out of heaven as the Revelation describes, their leader who was called Satan, was visiting the earth. He decieved Eve and Adam and tried to get Job on his side. But Job showed that he would not let anything stop him from serving God. The different ways God has dealt with mankind has followed His plan to teach us and show that Satan was wrong when he thought he could get all to his side. The strict laws of Israel showed that we cannot do things perfectly and that we will need God's plan to save us from sin and imperfection. God later continued teaching us through his son, Jesus. But the plan to teach us and save those of mankind who are willing to listen and obey God, was ready from the beginning. We get a clue in Genesis 3:15 and it all becomes clearer when we read all the books in the Bible.. God appears his plan to us if we are humble enough listen and learn.
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
15 Sep 12
Thank you beunvida! I think we actually discussed Job a bit in the past. If there is a power so high that creates every moment and thought...your right..we may never understand the entirety of purpose or reason. I suppose the fact that I analyize everything is one of my weaknesses where this is concerned. I did ponder over the possibility that perhaps God was at the stage of learning...we learn too. I guess it is the thought more that we are made in his image that provoked me to think...hmmm...perhaps we are more than we realize. God obviously shares some of the same emotions that we do...or maybe the descriptions of emotion was given by man that wrote for the Bible. It is interesting to think about. Thanks for the input!
1 person likes this
@buenavida (7513)
• Sweden
18 Sep 12
It is a good thing to analyze things, as that makes us continue studying and searching and talking with others and we can learn a lot. If we continue reading the Bible, we find that God has emotions. Here are a couple of examples. "... the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God."John 16:27 (New International Version) [i]"In all their distress he too was distressed, and the angel of his presence saved them.[a] In his love and mercy he redeemed them; he lifted them up and carried them all the days of old."[/i]Isaiah 63:9 (New International Version) We can see that God has emotions, and love is the most prominent. There is so much to learn, and we will also love and appreciate our Creator more and more and become more like him, when we learn to know Him.
@andy77e (5170)
• United States
1 Sep 12
Seems unlikely given the fact that the angels, which existed long before humans, had basically the same situation. Lucifer himself, was in one of the highest positions in Heaven, the Angel of light that stood over the very thrown of G-d. Yet G-d didn't want robots with the Angels either, and thus gave them freedom of choice as well, and as we now know, 1/3 of all Angels followed Lucifer into rebellion against G-d. I would expect that G-d knew that giving Humans the same freedom He gave the Angels, would have the same result, namely that some would reject him. So why would G-d do this knowing some would reject him? Well, I would guess because he doesn't need robots. Robots are not real love. There's a South Korean Iphone App "Honey It's Me!". A phone app girl friend, tells you how much she loves you, and all kind of wacky stuff. Question: How much real love is there in the robot girlfriend? What if you could make a real human boyfriend or girlfriend that told you how much they loved you all the time. Not because they wanted to, but because you programmed them to. Would that be real love? Of course not. G-d could have made human robots, programmed to worship constantly, automatically. But that's not love, that's a robot. Instead He wanted real love. But unfortunately the only way to have real love, is to have a choice, and choice means some will choose to reject.
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
1 Sep 12
Those are good points about free-will. No one wants the love of someone that has been forced to love them. Thanks for the input.
1 person likes this
@1hopefulman (18548)
• Canada
4 Sep 12
@ andy77e... I share your understanding of free will. Programmed worship or love would be a sham. It's like I write a poem and read it to you but you are programmed to say how wonderful I am for writing such a wonderful poem, of what value is your complement? And yes, free will does allow for some to reject God and not appreciate what He is and what He has done.
1 person likes this
@ajk111 (2527)
31 Aug 12
I am bemused and confused by the bible. The old testament, as you say, is hard and vengeful, the new is happy and positive. If it was today the old Testament would have been written by cormac McCarthy and the new would of been written by CS Lewis. I do not think i am made in gods likeness as i am a man and everyone with any sence knows god is a premenstral woman and as the saying goes.....God help us all!
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
1 Sep 12
So don't mess with him right? Now that I can relate to. I am both bemused and confused too. I try to analyse too much I guess.
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
1 Sep 12
analyze...oops
@bestboy19 (5482)
• United States
31 Aug 12
If I am allowed to ask, what was the book you chose to read? "Just because" and "how would you feel" aren't very good explanations for why God did what He did. We are created in God's image. God is a spirit being and so are we.
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
1 Sep 12
Sure...it was supposed to be an answer to the Old Testament actions of God and it was called "Is God a Moral Monster?" I felt like it was more of a personal attack on a certain atheist that apparently wrote a book and offended this author. It wasn't what I expected.
@bestboy19 (5482)
• United States
1 Sep 12
Thank you.
@celticeagle (112984)
• Boise, Idaho
31 Aug 12
I really don't care for the topics of religion or politics. I think that Adam and Eve are complete contriditions of what he was trying to accomplish. I think all these stories are mere fables and have not a bit of truth in them at all. Look at Lilith. What a question mark. She is the vampire's blood soked Goddess. The Bible isn't even complete. SOme books were not allowed in. So how can we really believe in any part of it? I am an agnostic and have ALOT of questions. Adam and Eve is the least of them. But, if it were true, and I preface this to say I DON'T THINK SO! But if it were I think the story of Adam and Eve has alot more to say than just the first children but more like women's wisdom over man and knowing right from wrong. Repercussions or teaching the first man how it was to be. And maybe this God of yours knew more than you seem to give him credit for. Just maybe he had a much deeper roll for them to play.
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
1 Sep 12
I am usually cautious about religion and politics too because of the passion that it stirs in people. I do try to offer some chances to learn from each other in a laid back way when I can though. I like discussing things in a laid back manner but not when there is aggression. Interesting that you said that about the story of Adam and Eve. There were actually a couple of the biblical stories that were found to greatly resemble some Old Testament stories that predated the bible by quite some time. The story of Noah was found predating the bible and it was exact except for the names. Your also right about the missing books and verses. I don't think the bible is an accurate depiction either..I think it is more of a moral of the story kind of book. Scribes wrote it and they wrote it over and over. The thing is if man wrote it, it won't be perfect. We are not perfect. Thanks for responding.
1 person likes this
@celticeagle (112984)
• Boise, Idaho
6 Sep 12
And yet so many people rule their lives by it. Sort of scarey I'd say.
@stringer321 (2654)
• Kiryat Ata, Israel
31 Aug 12
We try to explain why GOD did this or that and many times , the answer is that we just can't understand him , we don't know much like he does. GOD's ways are a total mystery. Sometimes , we do try to see things from a human point of view , trying to figure out what would we do if we saw a certain situation. GOD is not a human but maybe we still have some things in common because GOD created Adam in his own image. That is a good reason for us to try to understand and explain GOD's reaction to things. We try to understand what he considers , what he feels , just like a human being does in his life when facing a situation. About GOD that less and less interacts with the people , you are right , the more progress in reading the bible , one can see less and less interaction of GOD with his people. So , maybe , it did take him time to see that human free will is impossible to control totally. If people learn to love and care for each other , respect each other and help each other , no punishes will be necessary. I think you got good points here about how much GOD is like a human being. Please , define what is an imperfect emotion or define what is a perfect emotion. Our emotions cause many problems in our life and in the bible , emotions caused people to do bad things that GOD didn't allow them to do. Yes , we are created in GOD's image , but , not totally. Our emotions are not exactly like GOD's "emotions". (emotion is not just a feeling , it is something that causes us to do things).
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
1 Sep 12
Some of the emotions that I am referring to are emotions like anger and jealousy. There were things that were allowed by God in the Old Testament that I have some issues with understanding. Emotions seemed to drive him to do those things too...like you said. He wanted people to make the choice to be with him so I was thinking that maybe it just took him a little time to step back and allow that. I saw that most in the New Testament. Thanks for responding.
• Kiryat Ata, Israel
1 Sep 12
Many times , when we do something as a result of an emotion , we can make a mistake or cause a disaster. If we consider the outcome of our actions before we do them , the whole world would be a better place. No killings , no thefts , no sins ... but the feelings own us many times. We have feelings and we have to pay attention to but also control them , not to let them control us. My pleasure to respond.
@mythociate (13759)
• Oklahoma City, Oklahoma
3 Sep 12
God never changes. The changes you see are in man's understanding of God. Think about it: when you were young, 'big' meant 'boss of you'; now 'big' means something more like 'powerful, but only boss-of-you if you and "big" serve one another.'
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
15 Sep 12
Your right...perceptions and personal understandings can have a great impact on how we view things. Thank you for responding.
@Pose123 (21671)
• Canada
2 Sep 12
Hi JenInTN, I find this discussion interesting and different from most discussions in religion. If it's true that we are God, as some people now believe, it certainly makes sense that our first experiences in the physical plane would be like a learning experience. I think that many people today have a difficult time in believing in some kind of superior being living somewhere above the clouds and that is why there are so many atheists in the world.Our ideas have changed a lot from old testament times when people thought that God told them to commit genocide. Maybe God is experiencing the things that we are experiencing, not that God is changing but our ideas of reality are changing. Blessings.
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
2 Sep 12
I think your right Pose. It has become a very different world. Those were the times when God, according to the bible, had a very strong presence. Not that he does not for people that follow him now, but it is in other ways than him speaking to them and giving them specific orders like it portrays in the Bible. Thanks for your input!
@aerous (13475)
• Philippines
1 Sep 12
The verse that you read which says "We are created by his image" is not literal and this is symbolical. It symbolize how people be live with God image. Meaning to be like God, in action, heart and mind. Doing good in particular... But people failed to follow into that image which God,want us to be. People are live being hard headed and still committed sin. This is the reason why God, make a covenant to his people. But people still not follow what the covenant all about. Then God, decide to give warning to those people who are always committed sin and make way end the world by floods. After the floods God, make again a covenant to his people. But still people being hard headed and now make a promise that end this world with fire. This still not happen but the time soon come I think because all the prophecy that written in the bible is already fulfilled...
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
2 Sep 12
Hi aerous! Thanks for the input. I guess the thing that got me thinking was that all of God's emotions were much like ours. The fact that he had chosen people in the beginning was a thing I thought about too.
1 Sep 12
It is this sort of question that makes is so blinding obvious that there is not actually a "god" and all references to such a being are just men saying either what they believe or what they want others to believe for their own ends. For instance when Moses ordered his men to slaughter all their prisoners, men, women and children only keeping alive any virgins for their own use of course he said that is what god wanted. It is all a big con job
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
1 Sep 12
That is one way people look at it too. There have been a lot of people use what is written for their own ends. It is a shame that something that can bring comfort and peace to people has been used to hurt people. It has created a great deal of confusions. I think that whichever religion or belief brings comfort to one is no more right or wrong than any other. Thanks for responding.
@jillhill (37354)
• United States
31 Aug 12
Wow I have never thought of it that way! I think everyone grows...and maybe He did too..after all we are created in His image so this might be true!
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
1 Sep 12
Hi Jill...I thought it was an interesting thought too. It almost seems like two different Gods in the Old and New Testament. Thanks for the input!
@bounce58 (17550)
• Canada
31 Aug 12
I've been raised to believe the 'just-because' reasoning. So it would be hard for me, and yet interesting if this 'just-learning-too' idea were true. It would require much rationalization on my part. Although I would agree that the New Testament does move on to a lesser interaction, so there maybe something there. Tsk...tsk...tsk...
@JenInTN (27565)
• United States
1 Sep 12
tsk tsk tsk I am one that has issues with the "just because" stuff. I analyze everything and it is hard to be like that sometimes. Thanks for the response.