McCain wants Joe the plumber to spread the wealth...but does it work that way?

Given half the chance at a few ritch CEOs & polititians.....

Oooh, now I get it! I know a few folks I'd like to kick.....

Guess I got excited there. My spelling went to pot.

As expenses have continued to rise; gas, food, utility bills, more people are holding off on things like routine vehicle maintenance, making major purchases, taking vacations and dining out. I live in Florida and tourism is very important to us. It's not looking very good so far this year. My truck could use new tires but we're putting that off. It's the consumers who drive the economy, not the business owners. Can't wait to read about Sam!

New tires...Heck I'll be running on mine till I'm on the rims ( probably even a little afterwords ).

Ah clarus he isn't even a plumber LOL There's a good article in the Columbus Dispatch about him. Here you go you can blog some more about him LOL http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2008/10/16/ajoe.html?sid=101

No, the real question is who is better at creating jobs, government or individuals all the best urban

But the real question is will any of that money reach us.

I don't know if that's true either. Just because someone gets a tax break or tax relief or for instance - a stimulus payment - does not mean everybody necessarily spends that. A lot of consumers are clearly worried and holding onto anything extra they get right now. Even people who usually spend freely are not doing that, even if they can.

It would be good to have it relative to your income, yes, in terms of both business and personal. Also, people who are the worst off don't necessarily deserve things for free either, that's where all the tax money that people with higher incomes is going - to support the people who have nothing but they don't give back either. For instance if they feel they deserve free education for their kids, then there should be some volunteering or something else they do in order to obtain it. Nobody should be able to get something for nothing while passing the bill onto others.

I suspect Joe was a plant and one that didn't work very well for him or the McCain camp. Kennyrose, you are so seriously uninformed it's sad. The poooor business owner who has to pay for all those buns and burgers....have you ever heard of the term Cost of Goods Sold? I'm sure you haven't because you know nothing about business and less about taxes.

Good point chameleonsdream. The auto industry is very good example of how the loss of the customer base has a very negative effect on business.

It's a shame that Obama didn't have the real facts about how much Joe makes, because his answer would have been a completely honest "I'm going to help you realize that dream of making $250,000 someday by cutting you a break today." And kennyrose, I'm so glad you brought up the whole line of dominoes that gets affected when I can't afford to buy a hamburger. If I don't get to keep more of my money, I have less to spend on your products. That's precisely what's happening to the automobile makers right now. They're not laying off workers because they're paying too much in taxes. They're laying off workers because WE don't have enough money to buy their product. As far as Joe goes, I completely agree with you philjas. I think he's just a hardworking decent guy who's trying his best to get ahead. I doubt he expected to be part of a 'media moment' when he asked Obama that question, and frankly, McCain is the one who completely misstated who he is in trying to turn him into one of his hardworking American heroes.

Joe the plumber. I was listening to KMOX radio in St. Louis this morning, it was the Charley Brennan show. I don't know if Charley is a republican or democrat, here is what was said. A plumbing representative from "Joe the plumber's" city of Toledo, said he doubted that Joe was actually a plumber. It seems they have the same law on the books that we have in our town. You have to be licensed to be a plumber. Joe neither has a license and he is not a union member there is no record on the books that shows he has a license or is in the plumber's union. I wonder if Joe is a fan of McCain and just posed as a plumber to stir things up. Or, could he be a republican plant? Ok, so Joe buys the other guy out and takes over his business. He is now looking at a debt that he has to pay off, he is going to have a lot of overhead. There are going to be a lot business expenses and he is going to have to pay his help. How in the world is going to have a net income of over $250,000? He won't be paying any additional tax under Obama's plan, who is he trying to fool?

Buy a boat??? I thought poor ole Joe was worried that he wouldn't be able to afford to pay his employees if he had to pay higher taxes...but with the savings he can afford to buy a boat? Yep, that sounds fair to me. NOT!

Okay, guys, maybe I'll be proven a total idiot for this but - having read the articles about him in both the Columbus Dispatch and the Toledo Blade, as well as heard a lot of unadulterated bullpuckey in comments to other news stories, here's my take on it. Cut the guy a break. Who is he? From what I read out of his own mouth and out of what can be verified, he is a single dad trying to raise a 13 year old son on his own. His divorce papers show that he made about $40.000 a couple of years ago. He's working his butt off with another guy in a two person company, does not hold a plumber's license because he was told that his employer's license covers him as long as his employer is on the premises with him. When he interviewed for the job, he and his employer talked about the possibility that he might someday be able to buy out the business. He didn't pay his property taxes a couple of years ago - not good, but not a lynchable crime. We've all been in over our heads. I believe that he is a genuinely concerned person who disagrees with the entire concept of a progressive income tax, and is afraid that Obama's plans - not just his tax plan, but many of them - are a step down the road to socialism and the government running your life. I don't believe he was a plant, I don't believe he's related to Keating of Keating 5 fame, and I don't believe the Republicans put him up to it. What I do believe is that in answering him, Obama used a phrase that sent alarm and AHA! Gotcha! bells ringing through the conservative media. I believe that it was caught on tape because for pity's sake, none of the candidates go to the bathroom without a camera crew tagging along these days. Someone caught that phrase, jumped out it, and spread it around. McCain turned Joe into a caricature of who he WANTS him to be - Joe isn't going to buy his business next year - he said he hopes to someday buy his employer out. It's McCain's exaggerations and his attempt to turn Joe into one of his warm folksy just-like-us heroes - it's that story that's being debunked on the net - and this guy is being put through the wringer over it. And seriously? Joe and I may disagree ideologically, but any guy making $40k a year and struggling to raise his kid on that is a hero to me, even if we don't share the same opinion. He IS registered to vote, his name is misspelled on his registration card. He doesn't have a plumber's license but it sounds more like a case of his employer stretching the law than him being a skeezy criminal. He is very probably NOT related to the Keating-5 Wurzenwhatever - he does not own a construction company and an investment company and what I'm seeing being written about him is right up there with the kind of bullpucky I usually see directed at attempts to prove that Barack Obama's birth certificate is a phony. Lay off the guy - he exercised his right to free speech and is being crucified because he got turned into a political symbol.

Tickle down economics is economics as should be, not as it really is: that is the reason that you cant understand it.

It's too bad that we can't make more things as they should be - that would be the answer to all of the problems we are experiencing now. Everybody understands how things SHOULD be but it would take an act of GOD (not of congress) to make those things happen.

Oh I am just a teenager, I just got plenty of sense when it comes to business -- I do help my family stay afloat, so it wouldn't do if I didn't! Besides, economics I consider to be a fun subject (because it's so complex, mostly.) so I read alot about it...even though it's kinda depressing today lmao. Anyway, thanks! Exactly, Mommyboo. Even if SOME businesses do, do just that -- passing along the benefit/relief to their costumers, it's spotty at best. Not even fifty/fifty chance as far as how many of them would do that, anyway. As for gas stations, well they have it tough most of them. They can't control how the products they sell are priced when they buy it and therefore only have marginal control over the end price that you and I buy it at. SOME of them are greedy, plenty of them don't want to sell it for super expensive due to compassion or at least in knowing that they could lose business and therefore profit (not that this offers them much of a choice in the end anyway, they can't not sell it for what they sell it at or else they shut down). It's tough. And oil's going down mostly because demand is shrinking because everyone's freaking out because of the economy (and justly so). The big oil guys are kinda arguing and a bit scared themselves. ...I'm going on now, though. It's not a cookie cutter world, there's blanket circumstances and then there's unique circumstances which crop up. Understanding the blanket circumstances is generally a good idea, but without bothering to dig a little deeper things can always be missed. And as McCain himself has said, he doesn't know as much about economics as maybe he should know.

I second that. Many 'greedy' employers indeed do and will hoard money and NOT pass those savings to the consumers at all. With a plan to give businesses tax breaks, there has to be a stipulation that they also give CUSTOMERS price breaks or it will not do anything toward helping out any average citizen. Prices of everything except gas are climbing, and I am sure this is happening because businesses do not want to take a cut in profits. I believe they HAVE to take a cut in profits or eventually risk going under. I don't know about you but I'd rather take a small cut in profits myself than have to fold, I don't understand why others wouldn't agree.

Are you sure you're as young as you say you are? You're one smart cookie, Paranoia.

Are you kidding? That's exactly the plan they wanted. His crew has sold out to the big oil companies ( which you should have known when he brought in a VP from a state that has done nothing but ). Give big oil a bigger break & maybe they'll help line his pockets some more.

I'll betcha the McCain camp knows it, too, but they had to come up with a different plan even if it was a boneheaded one.

Well, this IS the camp that came up with the idea of buying failing mortgages from the banks at FULL FACE VALUE with taxpayer money, THEN renegotiating the mortgages at current market value of the home - so the banks don't lose any money. Using the house I live in as an example (not my house, not my mortgage - I rent), it sold to the current owner for $365,000 two years ago. It was just re-appraised at $156,000. Under the McCain plan, the bank gets off scot-free and the taxpayers get stuck with a $209,000 loss. And for the record, the bank turned down an offer of $150,000 on it (based on some work that the house needs) because it was too much of a loss for them to take. Yep, we'd actually lose more than the house is worth - and couldn't sell this at a profit until the house's value more than doubled again.

Yeah, that says a lot about the current economy; it is more profitable to barter for what you need.

Bartering for what you need is better all around, I'd rather trade something I can do for someone for what I need, that keeps the value equal. In this time, we need that, everything else is so backwards and skewed and upsidedown. You can't even get a burger and fries for five bucks any more and milk costs more than gas lol.

Shhhh, Zeph...you'll scare the scare tactics away! LOL!

I love how the folks who support McCain accuse those of us who could use a tax break lazy socialists wanting handouts yet they cry & moan about poor Joe the plumber because McCain told them to. What about Joe & Jane Average Citizen, struggling in this economy to make ends meet? God forbid they should care about their neighbors!

I believe this is different from tax incentives to bring in new business. Obama wants to increase taxes for the wealthy 5% and leave the rest of us alone. McCain wants to give tax breaks to the rich and continue to hope that trickle down economics will work even though it hasn't in the past. McCain says that business owners won't be able to hire more employees under Obama's plan because they will be paying more taxes but it seems to me that businesses, new or otherwise, don't hire more employees than they need. Logically speaking, if the middle class get the tax breaks like Obama's plan indicates, we'll increase our spending, keeping more businesses open and more people employed.