The White House declares a non religious based Holiday Tree  

The White House Christmas tree was delivered yesterday and Michelle Obama and the girls were there to greet it. There have been rumors flying around that the Obama's have banned religious ornaments and will refer to the tree as a "holiday tree" but this is untrue. It's a Christmas tree...whatever ornaments are put on it won't change that. Barbara Bush used different themes for the White House Christmas tree during the 8 Christmases she spent there, none of which were religious in nature, and she didn't refer to them as holiday trees either.

The words "In God We Trust" are printed on the American dollar. The whole "Christmas" holiday is based on the Christian celebration for the birth of Christ. There are other religious holidays in and around the months of November to January but none are "Christmas". My complaint is that the White House is more sensitive to these holidays than to the Christian holiday that the foundation of our country was built on - hence why In God We Trust is printed on our money.

Provide a link to this claim, wlee. You posted below that this slam on Christmas is all over the news so that shouldn't be too hard for you to do.

It was in my local paper and I have seen it on the local news - the paper quotes (no I will not tell you the paper's name as I live in a very small Maryland town and nothing is worth all these strangers knowing my location) "Guidelines for ornaments include specification for size, weight and composition and the directive that ornaments cannot reflect a religious or political theme". The information was directed to people who make ornaments for the White House tree.

Your local paper needs better reporters...and so does whatever channel you get your news from. This issue...now that you've provided me with some of the wording...concerns the NATIONAL Christmas tree that is on display on the National Mall every year...not the White House Christmas tree. These instructions came from the Forestry Service, not the White House, and was directed at Arizona school children who are going to contribute 5,000 ornaments for the tree that is coming from their state. These instructions have since been recinded. Since you don't like snopes, maybe you'll like the Christian Press better:

http://www.christianpress...

I never said anything about Snopes that was someone else - I don't ever go there so I can't give an opinion one way or the other. It was our local - admittedly small but usually accurate - newspaper and tv station.

Oh, now your small town in Maryland has a local newspaper AND television station? Don't think so. C ya.

Actually the tv station is one town over but serves our area as well as many others in the region.

Sorry, wlee, I have to agree with what the Lamb posted below...you've been trying to use an internet rumor as fact and refuse to address any of the real facts presented to you. Instead, you've responded to the presentation of any links that dispute your fantasy about the First Family with statements such as "I don't go to that site" or "I don't believe anything the Washington Times prints". I guess you also don't believe the Washington Post, the New York Times, CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, CBS, ABC, NBC and every other reputable news organization that covered the delivery of the official White House Christmas tree.

You state that you got your information from your local paper and heard about it on a local television station that is "one town away" but you're forgetting that I'm from that area. I know the broadcast setup in the MD/VA/DC Metro area. Unless the television is a small cable operation, it's an affiliate of one I listed above.

You state that you quoted exactly what you read and heard and seem to consider that to be sufficient evidence of your truthfulness, however, your continued failure to provide even one source of your "information" in the face of the massive amount of hard evidence to the contrary, shows you to be little more than a Snake Oil salesman. IF this (alleged) tv station serves your area as well as others in the region, identifying it by name does not threaten your anonymity so, unless you are totally FOS, what tv station was it?

You accused the Lamb of just writing things to incite yet you wrote this extremely innacurate and misleading discussion for that very purpose. The title you chose, indicating that the White House declared something that every other news organization in the world failed to report, is in itself inciteful. This discussion is not a simple matter of opinion as you seem to believe in your comments to the Lamb. You've stated facts that have been repeatedly disputed by reliable sources so any opinions based on your misinformation were derived from fraud. Since you're such a religious person, I'm sure you know how God feels about those who intentionally mislead others.

Spalladino thank you - you so make me laugh. Our tv station comes out of DE and our newspaper prints once a week. I guess you just don't know the area as well as you think. I have found out that if you support any religion other than Christianity you are fine - but the minute you stick up for God you are in trouble. Oh well I guess I will stay in trouble. Receiving a Christmas tree and telling people who donate ornaments not to make anything religious based don't occur at the same time. I have more to do with my life than spend time reading and researching everything I see and read - I don't claim to be the fact police. But I do have a right to respond to a printed article by a reputable source without being personally attacked by those who can't allow anyone else to have a thought or opinion. I have no reason to doubt what was printed in the paper and hearing it discussed repeatedly in the local hangouts. This board is about debating topics - we aren't all reporters with time on our hands to investigate all sources - we aren't news reporters putting the information our on the tv/radio, we are just people stating our opinions to things we hear, read or see. At some point in life a person has to leave their bubble and venture out into the world of - dare I say it - different opinions.

Having an opinion about a fact is one thing...unintentionally providing others with bogus information is one thing...however, refusing to look outside of your little box at the real facts when multiple examples of the truth are presented to you while you continue to spout the same bogus information, turns the unintentional into the intential. Misinformation becomes lies. Being "too busy" to check your facts is no excuse.

BTW, if you're getting television out of DE...you're not close to D.C.

Obviously you know nothing about this area as you claim. If you had truly been in Maryland you would know the entire state is close to DC - OC is the the eastern most point and is still only 3 hours from DC. The whole Eastern Shore borders DE at the north and most of the border towns get their local news out of DE stations. Just another example of someone claiming to be an expert in an area they have little to no experience with.

Ok, I'll bite one more time. I went to Atholton High School in Howard Co., the University of Maryland in College Park, worked at Prince George's Community College in Largo where we also had satellite facilities in Laurel, Greenbelt and Andrews Air Force base. I've lived in Laurel which is in both PG and Howard Co, I've lived in Columbia which is in Howard Co, I've lived in Savage which is also in Howard Co, I've lived in Waldorf, which is in Charles Co. My family is originally from Baltimore and I lived in Towson as a child. If you live north of Anne Arundel County, you get your television out of Baltimore, if you live south of there, you get your television out of D.C. Ocean City is 3 hours from D.C. and, yes, the area along the eastern shore does get their television from Delaware...because they are TOO FAR from D.C. to get it from there. The entire state is close to D.C. only IF you consider a 3 hour drive close, but most folks don't consider that to be close. IF you were close to D.C. you would be able to get the stations that broadcast out of D.C., such as WUSA, WJLA or WRC. You can't...because you're not. So, actually, I know more about the Metro area than you do. And, by the way, I've also been to Rehoboth beach many times.

Anora,

you put into words so eloquently what I could not find the words for. You should get a best response!!

I am well aware that the date was first used by the Pagans. Many of the dates we celebrate holidays were first used by the Pagans. But the holiday called "Christmas" is used to celebrate the birth of Christ. Other faiths do not celebrate "Christmas" nor do they necessarily celebrate anything this time of year. The Christians and the holiday of Christmas is the one that is not being respected. It is politically correct to be anything but Christian. The White House should respect all religions - including the Christian one. The government sure doesn't mind having In God We Trust on the money.

The Yule is traditionally celebrated from December 19th-December 25th. It marks the end of the Harvests (Lammas, Mabon, and Samhain) in which food was put up to make it through the winter months. The Yule is about celebrating the birth of the Sun King by welcoming him into the world, and thanking him for the end of the winter to come. I am simplifying this for you, but there is a great deal celebrated during this time.

I have a tree each year. My children decorate it, in fact we just started making home-made ornaments for our door decoration yesterday. We have presents. We have wonderful foods. We even have our lights up to help welcome the Sun King. I have no issues with anyone calling it a Holy Tree. When we use the term "Holiday" we are in fact referring to the day as a "Holy Day", and the 19th-25th are all Holy Days for my family.

I have looked for the newspaper article you spoke about and could not find it. All I found was a Conservative online blog style website that focused on his trip to Turkey back in April where the President declared we were not a Christian nation. The website then declared we were founded upon Christianity, which is a gross misunderstanding of the founding fathers. If you have not done so already, a link to your newspaper archive would be helpful in this discussion so we could at least have a frame of reference. Perhaps there is something I and others are missing.

Namaste-Anora

I was waiting for someone to mention Snopes! It's hilarious...someone posts a bit of news and they're automatically referred to snopes.com. Forget God for a moment...Snopes is now the all-knowing entity that has all of the answers to everyone's questions and worries.

Why are you crackin on me, coder? Is this news? Where's the source reference? There are several sites that dispute this claim but if you want to drink the kool-aid....

From the local newspapers. I live near DC it's all over the news. I didn't say I agreed with Barbara either, but hey Barbara doesn't live there anymore - you can't blame the Bush's forever. Is Christmas about Santa or Christ? Is Easter about the Easter Bunny or Jesus? I didn't say to leave these traditions out but it's kinda of like doing Veterans day and not mentioning anyone who has ever been in the military because you are scared to offend someone of a non military mindset. I am a Christian, I am not ashamed to celebrate the Christ in Christmas. As far as you being in trouble with God - that's between you and him - I just know that if you say you are a Christian you can't be afraid to support God.

What local newspapers, wlee? Both the Washington Post and the Times are running stories about the arrival of the official White House Christmas tree, which will be displayed in the Blue Room. The 4 or 5 local television news organizations up there, including the Fox affiliate, must have missed this shocking story because none of them have anything about it. I'm originally from that area, too, and have family in Prince George's, Howard and Charles counties. None of them have heard or read anything about this either so, again I will ask you to provide a link to your source.

I don't know where you get your opinion that a Christmas tree has to be strictly religious in nature in order to be considered a Christmas tree or for it to be acceptable for Christians to display. Do you even know the history of the tree? It's shape represents the Holy Trinity...it's an evergreen as a symbol of everlasting life. The lights...originally candles...are representative of the stars in the sky when Christ was born. Early trees were biblically symbolic of the Paradise Tree in the Garden of Eden and included colored handmade decorations and small gifts representative of those brought by the three wise men. This is also where the tradition of exchanging gifts at Christmas originated.

"I am a Christian, I am not ashamed to celebrate the Christ in Christmas. As far as you being in trouble with God - that's between you and him - I just know that if you say you are a Christian you can't be afraid to support God."

I'm not only a Christian, wlee, I'm a Catholic and I've never in my life been told by any Priest that there were requirements for a tree to be considered a Christmas tree.

I am not Catholic but I know many who are as that is a major religion in my area. The priests here do not support this decision by the White House current or past. They are vocal about it and the Catholics people are not happy with it either. Living so close to DC its a frequent topic of conversation in the area.

So Wlee.... The Catholics are okay with non-believers celebrating their holiday and calling it Christmas? Christmas is for Christians but the holiday itself is celebrated by many. I don't go to church but I celebrate this day. People that don't celebrate get the day off from work as a holiday so ...Happy Holiday is quite appropriate for everyone.

I think it's fine that you celebrate the day but may I ask just what are you celebrating? I truly don't know what "Happy Holiday" you are celebrating - if you aren't Christian and are agnostic then what symbolism does the season hold for you? And yes I really am interested because I have never understood why non Christians celebrate Christmas. I know that there is Hanukkah, Winter Solstice and Bodhi Day in December but I don't know of any other holidays or celebrations that occur during this period of time.

Well, I get Christmas eve off from work and so my family and I gather together for a good time and we do put gifts under the tree. IN the morning we get up and have breakfast together and watch the kids open gifts. I work on Christmas night and get paid double time. It is a nationally recognized holiday even for those that are not Christian and has been for as long as I can remember and I'm pretty old. Maybe you think it should be just for Christians but if that were to be the case then they would have to keep it within the church.

So what are you celebrating? What do the presents represent? What do you tell the kids the reason for celebrating is for? I understand celebrating Hanukkah, Bodhi Day and winter solstice but I can't figure out what it is you are celebrating. Again I am trying to understand - most people won't answer these types of questions so it's hard to figure out where they are coming from.

We are celebrating friends and family. The kids have the week off from school. We all gather together and have a good time. It's been done my whole life and theirs. They'd probably have more questions if we did not celebrate.

So what do the children think the presents are for? Do they think you are celebrating Christmas or do you just say this is the time of year we give each other presents for no reason? Does Santa visit them? I ask about Santa because he came from Saint Nicolas who was a real person who dropped gold in a families socks or stockings to save them and the legend started from there. So even Santa owes his origins to religion. Thanks for bearing with my questions. I appreciate your taking the time to answer.

There are many non-Christian people that celebrate Christmas. Some are forced to. Their business shuts down for the holiday. We are forcing others to recognize our holiday so why not just make it a "holiday".

Non - Christians cannot celebrate "Christmas". Christmas is not about Santa it's about Christ. Now they can celebrate other non Christian holidays that occur around this time - but none of these traditions use a Christmas Tree that I am aware of. You don't see the Christians going around demanding that other religions include them in their holidays or alter their traditions in case we are offended by them. Everyone can have their own holidays and traditions - but Christmas is a Christian holiday and we shouldn't have to alter it for fear of offending someone Our money has "In God We Trust" no one if offended to take it. When I put up decorations at work I make them winter decorations that will last through out the winter and make no reference to any religions - I don't put up a Christmas tree there - just snowflakes and snowmen with no mention of any kind of holiday - just the winter season. If the White House can't support Christians then don't support any religions or holidays and take it all down and put up a Snowman.

Sid-

Well said. It's true, many here in the US are forced to take off Christian holidays or such. I know that my husband has been forced to work his own Holy Days but then is given off a Christian holiday many times.

Namaste-Anora

Thanks for understanding Anora. We don't close down businesses and whatnot for Honaka now do we? As for the person who commented that non-Christians can't celebrate Christmas.....they do. For some Christmas is all about Santa and parties etc. and nothing to do with religion. For Christians....it is still and always will be Christmas but for all others it is just a holiday....hence the holiday tree....to be fair for all.

Being in a field that works 365 and 24/7 we are never off. I do know that we all work together so that you can have off during the time you celebrate your religious traditions when at all possible. But I don't know when Christmas was made a federal holiday or by who. Maybe someone will look it up for us and post it. My complaint is that the Obamas claim to be Christians but won't come out in public and support the holidays and ideals that pertain to Christianity. This is just another example. If they really aren't Christian then say so. We have got to quit being the United States of the offended and be able to publically support what we believe in.

We-

This is the short answer.(This is not a referral link)
http://wiki.answers.com/Q...

Namaste-Anora

I'm not a huge fan of Obama. Likewise...not a hater either. I didn't look at this as if he is not Christian but just saying he is. Rather I look at it as if he is just being fair to all that celebrate the holiday....even those that don't believe in Christ. It's just a name...a word.

I get where you are coming from sid but Christmas is a big holiday to the Christians. It is unfair to us to try and change the meaning of the holiday to something different or more neutral. It would be like telling a Muslim they couldn't have Ramadan anymore - it had to be called something else so as not to offend.

Only you can change the meaning of it...it's what is in your heart. You can even still call it Christmas. By changing the name, it is actually more respectful. Now it isn't being called Christmas by all those who celebrate it for the gifts and all but with no religious meaning.sorry but, I don't see your comparison to other holidays. Those holidays are not celebrated by others of different faiths.

Well non Christians decided Christmas was a great holiday because they liked the trees and presents, but they had a fundamental difference in the religious reason for the holiday. So they decided that it must be altered and made neutral so that everyone can participate. But everyone already has holidays that are specific to their beliefs. What if the Christians started demanding that those holidays be altered to be neutral so that we could celebrate them too without having to support the religious meaning behind it. I don't see the appeal of celebrating a religious holiday if you don't believe in the religion. Then to demand that the purposes for the holiday existing be changed and neutralized is just silly. I'm not Jewish so I don't celebrate Hanukkah but I don't interfere with the Jews rights to celebrate it. I don't demand that the name be changed or that a Menorah can't be in a public building or office. It seems to be only be the Christian based religious holidays that are affected by these demands.

well, good luck on your mission of getting the holiday to be a neutral Christian holiday.

I don't want it to be a neutral holiday - I want it to be the Christian holiday it is intended to be. It is everyone else who wants to "celebrate" the season and neutralize it into something it's not. I want to preserve everyone's holidays - Hanukkah, Bohdi Day, whatever they celebrate and not mixed them all together in one general non religious event.

Like I said....Good luck on your mission of changing tradition that has held for well...as long as I can remember.

Why is it a problem that it is a Christian holiday? Why is it that everyone can have their holidays but when it comes to Christmas we have to neutralize it? That's what I don't understand. Why is it not politically correct to support a religion you believe in? If the Obamas are the Christians they say they are then why can't they have a Christmas tree? Why do they have to change their belief or risk being branded as politically incorrect? If they claimed to be Atheist and did not celebrate Christmas I would not have a problem with them not having decorations. I would in fact have a lot more respect for them because they would be being true to what they believed in.

"If the Obamas are the Christians they say they are then why can't they have a Christmas tree? Why do they have to change their belief or risk being branded as politically incorrect?"

The facts dispute your claim. The story can be found about half way down the page on the first link...which is from one of your local newspapers.

http://www.washingtontime...

http://www.christmastree.org/whitehouse.cfm

I think the facts support my claim - The Obamas refused to pray on national prayer day, they did not even attend church. Obama himself has all references to anything religious removed anytime he is on tv or in a public speaking setting. He is clearly and obviously avoiding associating himself with what he claims are his religious beliefs. This is just another example.

Let me see if I have this straight. You say that you read this story in your local, small town newspaper and you believe it. I provide you with two news items referring to the White House Christmas tree...one from your Washington Times...a major newspaper...and the other from Christmastree.org and you continue to believe this fantasy because of the unrelated items you just posted? I guess you won't believe what I posted above from the Christian Press either then because you obviously want to believe what you want to believe.

Actually I don't go to any of those sources. Our little local paper is usually very accurate. I don't believe anything the Washington Times prints, I don't follow the Christian network and have never visited Christmastree.org. But I can still have and voice an opinion. My opinion is that we need to stop trying to neutralize Christianity, it has a much as right to exist and celebrate it's traditions as do other religions. Christmas is a christian celebration - it is not a neutral holiday. Unfortunately it has become a crime - as so well demonstrated here in this discussion - to be Christian. I don't understand why it is okay to support every religion known to mankind but when it comes to Christianity we have to neutralize it. My other opinion is that the Obamas claim to be Christians yet they shunned associations with the religion at multiple opportunities. If they are Christian they should support it - if they aren't they should support whatever religion they are and be honest about what they do or don't believe rather than go around trying to hide and neutralize all references to Christianity.

Nobody is trying to neutralize Christianity. They are just including other religions is all. You can still call it Christmas and you can still hold on to your beliefs.

IF he were Jewish I would expect him to celebrate and decorate for all Jewish holidays in a manner that support his religion. If he were atheist I would expect that there were no religious celebrations and/or decorations of any type at the White House. It's all about being who you say you are. It wasn't the tree at the pearly gates thea it was the fact that he was neutralizing the holiday that is clearly meant to celebrate the birth of Christ - he is trying to combine everyone's holiday celebration into one big neutral deal and that demeans everyone's religion. We can be tolerant of every religion but when Christians stick up for what we believe in suddenly we are the ones being intolerant.

Wlee, you clearly write in your introduction that 'god asks them why he wasn't good enough to be on their holiday tree'. I stand by my view that that is a ridiculous statement. I didn't realise that gods had dictated tree terms as instructions to their followers.
As I say as an atheist I really have no opinion on holiday baubles but once again I would say that its time that leaders practiced more frugality as an example to others and this sort of nonsense is just a sheer waste of budget.

Because Christmas is a religious holiday God deserves to be allowed to be in the holiday. The article stated that no ornaments could be on the tree that had any religious affiliation. Christmas is all about the birth of Jesus - so why would Jesus not be allowed on the tree? He is the reason for the holiday - there is no other reason. So yes I think that God would want to know why he wasn't allowed to be on a tree celebrating the holiday that is honor of the birth of his son. What possible explanation could there be for a person of supposed Christian faith to deny the inclusion of religious ornaments? It would be like telling the Jews they couldn't display Menorahs during Hanukkah.

I really wasn't aware that Christianity had a god that demanded a tree with Jesus on it. Funny I never came across that one before. I thought it was supposed to be more about turning the other cheek, having tolerance and helping those less off, rather than sticking up trees and baubles. It must be a late decree I missed somewhere. It really is strange what interpretations religious followers give to the tenets they follow. Still if your god frowns down on people who don't stick Jesus on a tree well, what can I say.
I still say when your economy is in a mess the president should set an example of frugality, they could spend their free time making decorations out of old toilet roll holders and show that to the country at large as a way to cope with rising debt. Then the whole world could follow the example too as there is way too much of this wasting of tax payers money on inconsequential ceremony and trees.
Better for the environment too if the president led by example in not having trees cut down.

The whole thing started because artisans make and donate the decorations to the tree - the taxpayers are not paying for them. But apparently they were told not to send any ornaments with a religious them or they would be rejected. The tree is also donated by individual citizens or a citizen group. It was the rejection of any religious based ornaments for a religious based holiday that sparked my personal ire.

I agree musicman but Obama does not act or support Christian values. But he may make it to whatever form of heaven his real religion believes in. I just wish he would quit hiding his true beliefs - tell us what they are - then stand behind them.

I don't "spout lies". I am responding to something I read in my local newspaper and heard on the tv station that serves our area. I have a right to post and respond to things I hear and read. You have a right to as well. But please refrain from calling me or others a liar or our statements crap. If you disagree then clearly state that and why your opinions are welcomed your personal attacks are not.

But what you are saying IS a lie. If you are going to lie, that makes you a damn liar whether you like it or not. I have yet to see you post a single link from ANY news agency backing your statement.

To sum this up:

1. Obama never said this.

2. Therefore it is a lie.

3. You are trying to help propagate this lie.

4. That makes you a person that speaks not the truth.

5. Those type people are known as "liars".

You sir are an jackass who wouldn't know the truth if it jumped up and slapped you in the face. May God have mercy on your soul because you are certainly in need of it.

"Christians" like you give God a bad name.

People like you give humans a bad name. Now if we are done hurling insults at each other this was a good discussion with lots of view various view points until people who have nothing to contribute join in and begin derailing it with attacks and insults.

Funny...looks like almost everyone here was telling you that you are full of crap.

And you have yet to post anything backing your unsubstantiated claims.

Like I said, I don't like Obama...but I am a very good supporter of TRUTH...as you should be, if you are what you claim to be...

I quoted exactly what I read and responded to what I heard. You can't get anymore truthful than that. Some of the people here did not agree with my reaction to this information. I respect other people's opinions - even when they are not in line with my way of thinking. You have had nothing to add and just write things to incite and see what others will say. Enjoy your Holiday Tree and may God have mercy on your poor misguided soul.

There is no freakin' "Holiday Tree"; there never was any mention made of it, and you STILL have shown no sources for your outrageous lie. Of course, there ARE some emails circulating on the 'net about it, which ignorant fools take to be Gospel truth...but they are lies.

And no, I am not "inciting" anything...I am calling a lie a lie. Pure and simple.

I'll still pray for you.

You should pray for yourself...I can pray for me.