Alas, home sweet home.  

lilwonders456 That is a brilliant idea. I think that her dislike of her country has eaten away at her soul so much that she is only capable of bitterness, lack of hope and spreading misery. I am really happy that my country USA)is doing what it can to protect us from the horrors she is experiencing in her home land!

way to go lilwonders and whiteheather!! i also think she should go as the song says "where the weather suits her clothes" by the way,LADYBUG MAGIC, what country do you think is better and more to your ideas? its people like you that are killing our patroitism. our country needs our support in these hard times more then ever now. WHAT COUNTRY IS BETTER??? please answer this. i bet you wont/cant.

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What about capitalism, with accountability? Just a thought.

More importantly, as I read through this, only one thing poked at me enough to stop my reading and respond promptly. I am going to read through this massive discussion, to try to understand this a bit better.(I normally avidly, avoid politics)

What do eating habits have to do with abortion? "I am very moderate on abortion, especially given my eating habits." This through a loop through my core processor, could you explain it further please?

With Appreciation.

I do not eat anything made of any animal or animal by-products. I don't like caging and mutilating animals, and I won't eat them, or any dairy, eggs, whey, casein, honey, etc. I even avoid sugar that was ground with animal bone. I do this, to give a voice to the defenseless, and to minimize the suffering.

I am over time going to do more research on cultures that embrace breatharianism.

Because I eat this way, people expect me to be anti-abortion. I am pro-prevention, and I believe that in some cases, to minimize suffering, abortion is a must.

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And, naturally, in the event of any danger to the woman or the fetus, an option to abort should be readily available. Without the onslaught of random strangers calling you awful names without knowing your circumstances.

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No, taskr. It was not a lie. It still holds true, despite you thinking you exposed a lie.

Where does one get an abortion if no clinics are easily accessible and not all ob-gyns perform abortions?

They go to a clinic regardless of what you consider "easily" accessible, or to a hospital to have it done. The fact remains that you have not shown your statement to be true because it is a LIE.

CJScott - you said, "What about capitalism, with accountability?"

I like commerce, and growth, but, I do not corporate personhood. I don't like power and their influence in politics.

Can you tell me a hypothetic scenario about capitalism with accountability so I can envision it?

"They go to a clinic regardless of what you consider "easily" accessible, or to a hospital to have it done."

Do they taskr? You're leaving out one important part....$$$$$$.

Amazingly put fahctor :)

Kudos! Well said xfahctor!

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Irish - by violated a second time, I am assuming you mean carrying the rapists baby to term?

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I don't think Ladybug realizes that banning guns would do NOTHING to stop gangs from having them.

Ladybug, I know you'll never do this, but you should talk to cops that work in gang units. Ask them about gang weapons. Talk to guards from maximum security prisons. Ask them about the guns made by prisoners there. Keep in mind, these are people with IQs averaging around 84, many of whom can barely read or write.

Despite that, these people are capable of making firearms from PENS and deadly blades from rubber combs and toothbrushes. Guns are not hard to make. Gangs already make them and trust me, a pen that's turned into a firearm may not have the accuracy of handgun, but you don't need to be very accurate when some guy just stands there wondering why you're pointing a pen at him.

http://www.weaponscombat....

Here's where a guy accidentally shot his brother with a pen gun.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/22776728/detail.html

No amount of gun control can stop someone from making that weapon and gangs are MASTERS of making such weapons. Honest citizens are NOT.

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24 weeks is actually quite a long time. That puts the woman at nearly 6 months pregnant. I would think that most women would know what route they want to take at that point in time. That's more than halfway thru the pregnancy. Have you ever seen what the procedures are for late term abortions? It's pretty gory.

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I asked James Cagney and here's what he said

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_8w4-FTWec

Ok so I won't even try to judge the girl that was raped and all the emotions she is dealing with. In a case like that, well, I don't think i have the right to judge. Maybe rather than make laws that don't take into consideration all of the circumstances surrounding the situation, more education and let the doctors at these clinics decide on a case by case basis.

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Irish has been stalking my discussions and calling me "baby-killer", telling me to ooze in blood, telling me I have a vitamin deficiency, telling me I have PMS, etc. She has been notoriously nasty to me throughout any thread we share posts on, for no real reason, just because we disagree, or, even when we agree. She, too, is prochoice, so she should call herself a "baby-killer". The most recent post she made to me was nowhere on topic, just a youtube video of someone making funny noises. She is one of the most juvenile people on mylot. I am just giving back to her what she does to me, but, I do agree she is not worth my credibility or my time in any way.

"Irish has been stalking my discussions and calling me blah blah blah..."

How is this any different than the names you call everyone else who disagrees with you? How is it a crime for her to insult you, and yet you eagerly dish out personal insults at so many other people. You even insulted MY WIFE who you know absolutely nothing about when I mentioned that an affirmative action quota at the school she taught at cost her her job. It really just looks to me like you can dish it out, but cry foul when it comes your way.

Taskr, I already called you out on this in that thread. I never insulted your wife. I said it was your contention that she was fired to fulfill an affirmative action quota, and I said she may have been less qualified than the person replacing her. You were rather presumptuous.

And, while we are being so honest, you have publicly stated that homosexuals should not be granted equal rights, the right to marry, the right to come out in the military, and homosexuality should not be promoted in a postive and age appropriate manner in schools, despite your being a librarian.

Considering she is married to you, and you are openly bigoted against members of the GLBT community, and like attracts like, I did make the argument she may have been fired if she holds the same reservations you do.

"I never insulted your wife"

Bull$hit. You called me a bigot and said that my wife is s bigot too. I'd gladly link to it now, but I reported you for saying such and your post was deleted by a moderator.

"you have publicly stated that homosexuals should not be granted equal rights, the right to marry, the right to come out in the military,"

More lies eh? Go on Ladybug. If I publicly made these statements provide links and quotes. You're a liar. You have lied and defamed me several times on these forums.

"you are openly bigoted against members of the GLBT community"

See, here you go with the smears again. Go on liar, give us some proof. If you don't provide any proof in 24 hours, and we both know you can't, I'm going to report your comment for slander.

Miss Magic, I asked if it was necessary, not if you felt it was justified. Justifiable, and necessary are very different, and usually the former, just makes you feel better, and does nothing to improve the situation.

After reading through all the posts, I am sorry that I signaled you out for the name calling and insults, they are abundant, I regret subjecting myself to such negativity. What was done, is done, and I will stick with it, until such a time as I feel appropriate, for the highest good of myself and all concerned.

With Appreciation.

Report me if you want for slander. I don't have all the time in the world to play mylot, and don't really care to engage in all debates and link exchanges with you. I never once said your wife was a bigot. I said she may harbour the same reservations you do.

Okay, hotshot, show me that link where I insulted her.

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Oh, and as far as slander goes, I will also be expecting my apology when you slandered me about my views on abortion. You said I think they should be plentiful, when you responded to my own thread about abortion where I openly said it should be a last resort. I am waiting for you to apologize for that.

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Taskr36 It is very obvious that your use of logic will not penetrate lbm's thinking. She lives in her own world of dementia. It think it is very obvious to all who read your comments that your are not bigoted in your opinion regarding homosexuality whereas this appears to be one more of lbm's obsessive phobias. I think she gives the appearance of having someone close to her, perhaps one of her children, who is homosexual and this could be causing her fervent support of homosexuality. This, if correct, would make her obsession more understandable.

I just read through some of lbm rantings and I came across one which makes my last comment not quite correct, she is not married and does not claim to have any children but now it becomes abundantly clear why her obsession with homosexuality...quote "because I have made a promise not to marry until it makes my love equal to the love that anyone in the GLBT community has. Hmmm very interesting!

Yes, whiteheather. I am obsessed with equality. I don't want to participate in an inequality, even if it is in my favour. I am true to what I stand by.

whiteheather and taskr, this is not bigoted? "What two consenting adults do with each other really is none of my business. So long as they are adults and they're in love, sure, why not? I think it's creepy and demented and unhealthy both physically and emotionally, but they're adults."

Taskr, do you even know any homosexual couples??? I find the comment above to be VERY offensive and I'm a heterosexual. There is nothing creepy, demented or unhealthy about loving whomever you choose to love. I don't live in a little box, taskr, and I know homosexual couples who have been together for 20+ years...even raised children who turned out just fine. Apparently your "why not?" was misplaced.

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There seem to be a few posts missing from this thread, taskr. Maybe if someone quit running to the moderators that wouldn't happen. Funny, you call people names...that's okay but if someone else posts something you don't like it's off to the admin you run!

You're behaving like a five year old.

Aussie, you know I have no problem with you. We've posted on a lot of the same threads. I also don't blame you for believing such crap because you DON'T live in America so you don't know first hand how much of this is garbage. Ladybug should know better.

Taskr - I guess its okay for those on the far right to say that we are stealing their liberties, imposing a live-in IRS rep in each home, that our country has become a communist country, that we are leaving our citizens defenseless, and that our president is a muslim usurper and mirrors Hitler. Those people should know better.

But, the realities of the situation are how I presented it, but slightly exaggerated, obviously, and I will address each post individually as I have the time. And, if I did not show this post, you would not see why the left party works so hard at fighting against the atrocities brought forth by the right party.

I will respond to you in depth when I get home - but real quick: I don't bury my head in the sand like you do. I am telling the truth, and I made it sound morose, because the very reality of it is.

Anyone who can come to grips with the personal responsibility and shame in what lead our country this way, and who wants to know the truth, would realize this is not America bashing. It is fact stating.

Don't like facts? Do what you can to change them.

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Taskr - I am going to a function right now, but I had to address you really quickly. I will be responding in depth to all my threads tomorrow after my shift, and I will explain in detail exactly what I posted to you and everyone else, and the truth to all of this that you have no problem denying. My point in writing this exact minute is to tell you this:

You and I notoriously conflict with one another. And, I have some people who love to hate me and sling whatever insults they want at me, and that is fine. I am a big girl and I can handle them. But -

If you ever again suggest that I am "America bashing" because I favour government regulation of corporations to free enterprise, then you are treating me in a discriminatory manner because of my political beliefs. You have never once told those who called our healthcare reform - "the country slipping into socialism" or people calling our president "the usurper" or people lying and saying they are "losing liberties", etc - You have never once told them they were American bashing, because they have a strong right-wing belief.

You do something like that to me again, and I will report you, which I have never done to anybody, but you do to me repeatedly. If you attempt to have this discussion deleted, you will be then exposing yourself for what a hypocritical coward you are.

Ladybug, I am sorry to say this because I really like you but seriously you do sound like you are losing it. do you really live here? Do you really believe all those things you said? So many things t hat I don't agree about our country and yet none of what you listed.

I said you are "America bashing" because you are bashing America. I thought it was pretty clear. You have said NOTHING in your op about government regulation. All you did was say how horrible this country is using lies to make your point.

"I live in a wanton and inhumane country."

That line alone constitutes America bashing as it was directed solely at America.

If someone thinks this country is slipping into socialism, that's not bashing. That's stating their opinion. Socilism isn't evil, nor does it constitute an insult. It's simply a system of government that many do not want and that this country was not designed to have. If I think someone's lying, I'll tell them that regardless of which party they're a member of.

"You do something like that to me again, and I will report you"

Threaten me all you like. I'm just stating the facts. Bashing America is what it is.

While Ladybugmagic was making a generalisation of extreme cases, it does not mean that she was lying. Those extreme cases are mostly amongst poor Americans.

There are two Americas.
The 60% living a good life, and the 40% living in poverty.
The Republicans like to sweep the 40% under the carpet and pretend they do not exist, because the poor are an embarrassement to what America is suppose to represent. The lucky country. The free country. The wealthiest country. And the most powerful country.

Socialism is an attempt to reduce the gap between the poor and the rich. They will never succeed at doing this because it is not possible. But Socialism can ease the pain of the poor with free healthcare and a reasonnable amount of money to survive.

Capitalism and Socialism are an attitude.
Capitalists believe that everyone has an equal chance in life. People should get off their bum and go and earn a living.
Socialism recognise that not everyone is equal and that not everyone has the same opportunities. Socialism is a humanitarian party.
It is true that Socialism is more controlling, simply because they do not want the wrong people to get handouts that they do not deserve.
And when Capitalists have to pay more taxes to support the poor, they will start to rot the system in order to get their money back. Which is why, the government needs to know who is doing what.

All that said, America is the only country left in the Western World who has not experienced Socialism. And wether you like it or not, you are going to need to catch up with the rest of us. Because if you don't, and you end up with 60% being poor instead of 40%, you are going to get much bigger problems than Socialism.

Aussie, first, your numbers are way off. On average, at any one given time, about 12-15% of the people in the U.S. are below poverty level, not 40%. And there is a big difference is in how "poor" is defined. Out of the 12-15% living in "poverty" here, 40% own homes, 75% of those living in "poverty" here have a car, nearly 97% o them have a tv...half have at least 2, 25% have cell phones.
While we do have some very destitutely poor people, homeless issues, etc, even our "poor" are not all that poor by world standards...this is thanks to capitolism and the fact that we never fell for the mediocracy that sociaism brings.

Yeah, 12-15% is about right. 40% is a joke and not even remotely close to reality. In fact, our poverty rate is IDENTICAL to the poverty rate of Australia. As for what the "poor" have in this country, it's pretty crazy. I suggest you take a look at what the census shows Aussie. The numbers are even more ridiculous than the estimates given by Xfahctor and as this census is a bit outdated, I can assure you the "impoverished" here are even better off now than they were during the last census.

http://articles.moneycent...

I am not talking about "below poverty line"
I am talking poverty, period.
Having a house and a car, does not make you rich, unless it is paid and you have no debts.
Many people are living in misery in order to make that monthly mortgage repayment, and many simply lose their house and the money they invested in it.

You don't compare poverty by world standard.
You compare poverty by the cost of living in your own country.
If you don't earn enough money to meet the cost of living, you are poor, period.
Having a television hardly classify you as rich, unless it is a digital 6 foot wide screen TV.

Socialism is not communism.
Australia had its share of socialism, and we are one of the very few countries in the world who was not affected by the financial crisis because of our strong economy, as opposed to a capitalist inflated economy who crumble in the first breeze.

This is not the first time that America brings the whole world economy down the gurgler. Every recession I experienced in Australia during the last 40 years was brought on by America having a sneeze. Capitalists push prices up artificially to make a quick buck, and when they sell, everybody else lose their money. And that is all done under the banner of "Freedom to become rich at the expense of the little guys trying their hardest to raise above poverty"

There is nothing mediocre about Socialism.
Under the right government, it is a fairer system.
But I can fully understand why capitalists would object at having restrictions in their wheeling and dealings. Capitalists live for money, and they never have enough.

In "Wall Street", Michael Douglas says it all. "Greed is good".
That's America.

Have difficulty making payments on things you own or even having to give some things up...and living in poverty are two different things. I am dirt poor, I wont sy whaty I make a month but I can assure you it is well below most of the people in this country, in short, I am dirt poor. However, I still do ok despite struggling to keep up....but you know what? I would rather struggle like this on my own, then be better off financialy by being dependant on a government to make things "fair" for me.

"Under the right government, it is a fairer system."
and under the wrong government, it kills and/or enslaves millions. I'll take my chances wih capitolism thank you.

That is your choice xfahctor, and you are entitled to your choice.
Everybody has a choice, and I respect that.

I am not here to convert anyone to Socialism.
By the same token, we live in a democracy and Obama was elected fair and square by the majority. The fair thing is to let him do the job he was elected to do, even if you did not vote for him.

When you knock Obama, you knock the majority who voted for him.
And if the majority voted for him, it is because they did not like what the Republicans were proposing, which was much of the same. Lets not forget that the financial crisis happened under Bush, not Obama. He is the guy who need to pick up the pieces.

"we live in a democracy and Obama was elected fair and square by the majority."
You (australia) live in a democracy.......We (the U.S.) live in a democratic based constitutional republic. Besides, how did Obama even get in this discusion? I wasn't knocking "Obabma" (though I have plenty of reasons to do so, so feel free to start a thread on that if you wish), I was knocking ladybug's very distorted and grossly exagerated (by her own admitting) presentation of life here in the U.S.

Yes, but her discussion is a spin off her other discussions.

She started this discussion to provoke a reaction because of all the knocking in her other discussions.

I still don't see what that has to do with Obama.

EVERYTHING has to do with Obama! Haven't you learned anything in your time on mylot X?

The funny thing though, what if we went and blamed Obama for all the things, exaggerated and imagined, that ladybug complained about?

X - I didn't admit to grossly exaggerating anything. I admitted to a slight exaggeration, hypothecising if the conservative party had their entire ways, but everything I listed is happening now. I made it sound somber, because the reality of it is that it is somber. As Aussies said, this is a spin off of my other discussions. I am not one of those people who get mad if discussions flow into different topics, but a lot of mylotters get miffed, so I thought I would lay it out all in one. But, somehow that upsets people too, so I am just going to do what is comfortable for me.

I happen to think Aussies said most of what I believe, and I can only echo it. If you would like to talk about Obama, X, feel free. I won't piss and moan and tell you to start a new thread. If, out of nowhere, you said something like, "I like ponies", then I would.

You said, "democratic based constitutional republic". You do realize our constitution is outdated by about 200 years, right? You also realize if not for the abuse of the 14th amendment, it would not have avalanched the corporations being granted the same rights as a citizen into this monopolizing tyranny we are under. You may say democratic based constitutional republic. I say catastrophically capitalistic causing a worldwide detriment.

The only thing that saddens me is that there are more people that think the way I do, but are too timid to speak up. That said, I am going to be more vocal about these things.

Every time someone posts something about a company's big acquisition, I am happy to post the previous forest that was cut down to make room for their accomadations. Everytime the dow closes higher, I am so willing to post how many illegals worked in that company, or how many thirteen year old's sewed their sweaters in horrible conditions.

And then, I will be greeted with, "You are going off topic." Forget that - it is on topic, from now on, I will make it clear, that every action has an equal and opposite reaction, and because the reaction is the reactin to the original action, it will still be on topic.

Silly me, I though thought it was more productive to stay on point.

Discussing Obama in this thread is on point, because he is trying against all odds to steer us in the right direction.

" because he is trying against all odds to steer us in the right direction"
And this is what you honestly believe? OOOOOOH k....then lets have it, please tell me what it is he is doing to adress every single issue you listed here.

"Silly me, I though thought it was more productive to stay on point."

That's only productive when you have a point, specifically one that you can support with facts. Ladybug and apparently Aussie now, lack these.

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The whole point of the exercise was that people on mylot have been accusing Obama of introducing Socialism because of his healthcare policy.

I don't feel that it is my role to justify what ladybugmagic did say.
It might be exagerated, but that don't mean that it do not exist.

America is a land of hypocrisis, thanks to the church.
You are probably the most Christian country in the world.
You guys cannot say two words without thanking GOD.

What's get me, is that you don't do what you preach.
Because thanks to your gun laws,
You are also the most violent country in the Western World.
With the highest crime rate and the highest death rate through violence.

You have an issue with a woman having an abortion.
But you would not think twice about shooting dead someone stealing your car.
So don't tell me about a foetus having the right to live, while a thief does not have the right to live.

A life is a life, no matter who you are. You are not the judge deciding who has the right to live and who has not. But that is what America is doing.

"You have an issue with a woman having an abortion.
But you would not think twice about shooting dead someone stealing your car"
Now thats a hell of a leap don't you think? I would shoot someone when my life depended on it...not for stealing my car. I can only speak for myself of course, but I suspect i wont be the last one to call you out on this one aussies.

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"5. Gang initiations have included leaving your headlights off intentionally, and then shooting the person who flashes you to put them on. That gun was obtained legally at one point, and due to poor tracking and improper gun control, that gun fell into the hands of a gang member."
Ladybug.....this is an urban myth. If you can show me a single police repor showing that this happened...I'llconcede....but to my knowlege, it is just an urban legend. Icidentaly, this has nothing to do with my issues with the rest of this thread, just a pet peave of mine over urban myths.

"Re: Religion - Our currency reads "In god we trust", we swear on a bible in the courts, our kids have been taught to say "under god" in the pledge of allegience ... all leading to a supreme religion, though we advertise ourselves as having a separation of church and state, and as the melting pot, and as the place to come to escape religious persecution."
Having to see someone elses religion, hear someone else pray, or witness the religious symbols of someone's faith is hardly religious persecution. DO you have people kicking in your door ordering you to pray? Are people from the government dragging you to church?

Our country and the top income earning corporations lure people across the border, because minimum wage here is a king's ransom there."
Corperations don't set the minimum wage here....the federal government sets a minimum and many states set it above the federal level. But I guaranty you would be one of the first people screaming for heads if the federal government ever tried to reduce minimum wage.

"5. Gang initiations have included leaving your headlights off intentionally, and then shooting the person who flashes you to put them on."

Lol. Do you also believe that KFC is using genetically engineered chicken like mutations for their food? Oh, and FYI, the crown prince of Nigeria is not going to share his fortune with you.

http://www.snopes.com/crime/gangs/lightsout.asp
http://www.snopes.com/crime/gangs/pullover.asp

Very good taskr - I brought up a scenario that we are all familiar with that helps convey the point, in terms of the randomness in which gang initiations choose their target.

They may not do the headlight response thing, but in some gangs, they are required to shoot and kill a random victim. Do you need me to provide links to those?

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Taskr -

Are you a woman? If not, I don't think you should have any say in what a girl or woman do with their bodies. That being said, while abortion is legal up to 24 weeks, and some states only have one clinic, how easy would it be for a teenager to get somewhere three or four hundred miles away to said clinic?

It is legal, but not easily enforceable. Thereby making it legal in name only.

And when they seek out their abortion (given whatever circumstances they endured), they are greeted by an angry mob.

Printing the word “god” on our currency or forcing it into our pledge of allegiance is prohibiting the exercise of religion, for those who don’t believe in the judeo-christian god.

If we put “satan” or “allah” on our currency and in our pledge, how many conservatives and christians will be opposing that?

I am not responding in full yet, because I am making my way through all the comments, first. But, viability is ruled at 24 weeks.

Terminating a fetus that is not viable is not the same as murdering a defenseless child.

Facts.

:P

Number 1: "evolved" is very much the wrong word if women have gotten to the point they can no longer care for a child at 15, and use to be able to. I'm actually not quite sure about this point anymore, after talking with my mom tonight. So I'm a bit more open to other sides of this one. And for the record, I'm going to turn 18 in about a month, for years I have looked forward to the pleasent parts of being an adult, the freedom in taking my own responsibilities and wielding them wisely. But more and more I'm noticing the age restriction of "21" on more than just drinking. That's not fair.

Number 2: ... proper gun control? In states that have restringent gun control, there are still teens are running around with dangerous weapons. I (think I) read your alternative, but I still think the main problem with murders involving guns is the guns obtained under the table. The time stamp feature, with trackers on ammunition would be a flawed plan, because it would likely be an addition to the weapon to time stamp and count. And people would know how to remove said addition. Also, with bullets, the bullet get's hot enough to melt most sorts of markers off. If you marked it into the metal, it would greatly reduce the efficiency of the manufacturing process and the aerodynamic capabilities of it. (Not just speed, It would possibly mess with the aim, which could make them more dangerous) whilst giving very little more safety in figuring out what bullets came from where than bullets currently do. these changes would help in only a small fraction of cases.

22% of young males (I'm assuming under 18) have carried a gun illegally at some point in their lives. That's one out of every 5. I don't think your background checks help there. I'm not saying they shouldn't exist... I'm just saying your problem is probably occurring elsewhere. Source from Wikipedia, http://en.wikipedia.org/w... Under the "access to firearms" article.

For the record :P I know a guy who makes stunningly beautiful -working- guns. (he showed us pictures, those things are works of art.)

Number 4: Our country was not "founded" on slavery. It used slavery as an economic means as did most other western countries at the time. Thus I think the comparison is apples to oranges. Our country was DIRECTLY founded on christian principles, Demonstrated through the faith and actions of many of the acknowledged "fathers of our country" and in many written works they created directly pertaining to the governing of, the independence of, and even some of their policies, including military policies. Thats an apple compared to the orange of Economic foundations on slavery.

Number 5: :P Just kinda like your defeatest answer about teaching teens about abstinance, right? I think this relates to your gun control answer (number 2)

Number 6: I think it puts hurtful requirements on many thousands of people. I think there is a better way to help the thousands a year who were going to die without the care. And I think the longer we keep debating it, the less time we spend finding the better answer that everyone can be happy about.

Number 7: That made me smile :P lol was a very funny response.

Number 8: If absolutely everyone on Earth is thrilled about it, why are you saying people are complaining about it? :P I know what you mean though. Still, are they hurting anyone by disagreeing with this nukes thing? If they are truly acting unwisely, then let their own actions betray them, unless they are hurting others.

Number 9: ... Without my relationship with God, I am not me. It molds how I view the world. The bible says homosexuality is wrong. Do you seriously expect me to vote for something pro homosexual? My relationship with God IS me. It defines me. I cannot throw aside my beliefs and convictions to vote, because you would be left with a hollow shell. Thus, I will vote for who I believe best represents me and my beliefs because that is what the right to vote for a representative is for.

Number 10: Under the section "Why Abortions are performed" (use CTRL + F and type in that Title to bring you to that section.) And I honestly hope they weren't using it as an alternative to Condoms and Birth control :P I get your point there, And a lot of those same girls aren't informed properly to make a choice they won't regret. Which is why I think it's best to instead of arguing till one is blue, Steadfastly state your opinion, and then help fund one of those pregnancy help centers to help the women make a truly educated choice and truly understand the possible repercussions, the process, the alternatives, etc.

Number 11: Thank you, but I have to wonder, if one is not impressionable, then what is the point of discussing anything? If you are not open to hearing, and learning from someone else's opinion, then what is the point of even hearing them speak?

Besides, I want to be a child as long as possible, I'm very much happy being just a tinge Naive.

And no I never got a chance to watch that one, I don't think they have it on Netflix... which is where I watch most of my documentaries, Except a few VHS ones we have laying around :P

A 15 year old could take care of a child but only with an awful lot of government or strong family support. Back in the day when 15 year olds got married and had babies, that was pretty much the life for a woman. Women were not allowed to vote nor were they expected to work or make important decisions. They were expected to stay home and raise babies and take care of the husband and home. Many that went all the way thru high school still had getting married and having babies as their number #1 goal in life. Now women have so many more options. We have fought for our rights and come far from those days. Evolved is really the correct word.

I disagree Sid.

Evolved IS the wrong word when one of our main capabilities is something we are no longer capable of. Seeking an education, the ability to vote, and the ability to seek out and/or obtain a good job shouldn't be something that can interfere with an ability to rear children at age 15. As a whole, woman don't seem capable of it anymore. That is a backtracking.

Back when it was common for women to marry at age 15, women did not usually complete highschool. They did not leave the house to work as a rule. It would be extremely difficult for a 15 yr to get a job that could support a child and herself and still pay for an apartment, pay for a sitter and still fit in time for her education. As I said, it is possible with a lot of help from parents or government. She would still not be independent on her own. I raised 4 on my own and I know how hard it is. A 15 yr old can't even drive yet. Sorry, I stand by my response. I think women have evolved to KNOW that getting married and having babies at age 15 is not the best thing for them or their children. Lets also not forget the life expectancy was much younger than it is now. I don't know how you can say women have not evolved over the years but I was around when women's rights were being fought for. I know for a fact we have evolved alot. You are going back before my mothers time to a time when 15 year olds got married and had babies. Women stayed married no matter what and put up with a lot of abuse and yes...still took care of their kids. They aged early and there was no birth control. Women are strong enough to stand up for their rights now and smart enough not to submit themselves to such a life. yep...we've evolved.

May I suggest, Grown, rather then evolved? To me Evolved, means to have changed in genetic structure, and I do not think that is so.

I do believe they have changed, learned, and grew to become more then what they were allowed to be.

Just a suggestion.

Gah, I forgot, Which President is on the 20$ bill anyways? Andrew Jackson?

Yes, Andrew Jackson is on the $20 bill.

:) and I am not even American.

I have noticed you called me far left before, and I don't think that I am, compared to the people I associate with. I am fairly moderate.

But, yes, all that I listed is undeniably the fault of the conservatives.

"have noticed you called me far left before, and I don't think that I am, compared to the people I associate with. I am fairly moderate"

Right. All the fault of the conservatives.

I'm just curious here: Where would you find more gang members, more violence, more shooting, more pregger teens, etc - in cities with conservative leanings or in cities that have believed as you have and elected progressive liberals for decades?

Where are there more poor people fighting to survive?

And for most of the stuff you listed, you're completely carried away.

Whatever happened to personal responsibility?

It's one of the most-used cliches of all time, but guns don't come alive and kill - people do. How about holding the individual accountable for a change?

Little girls aren't out there getting raped at an alarming rate. Most pregnancies occur because of a lack of personal responsibility. And let's not even get into the nonexistent parenting in a lot of these cases.

Kids know to use condoms, ffs. They know full well that storks don't deliver babies.

You completely remove personal responsibility from the equation and blame the right for all the country's problems. You want government to be the nanny, protecting people from themselves.

That's fine with me. But that's also what makes you far left.

That, and being a 911 truther. It's no different from the Obama birthers being on the far right. No different than those fringe folk claiming he's a secret Muslim looking to sneak in his terrorist pals.

You have more in common with those you claim to despise than you know.

The fact you want an uberprogressive government to exponentially expand and take away liberties and enforce much stricter regulations to correct these problems is a very far left stance.

Moderates don't shill for the annihilation of religion, private industry, all conservative values, border security, guns. Moderates don't lump everything together, exaggerate it grossly, and then pin it on one side only.

You're certainly free to believe and say whatever you'd like. But judging your body of work, I doubt anyone agrees with you about your being a moderate.

I'm not sure I've ever seen one moderate stance from you.

You claim to live in America. I won't say you don't, even though I have my suspicions. Yet you don't see that some of the worst places to live in America--full up with what you're talking about--have long abandoned the right and are going with only progressive policy?

Conservatives make a great whipping post, but what do they have to do with a state like Cali and its problems? (Please don't give the Arnold/Republican line. Everyone in America knows the band of merry liberals makes the policy.)

You're selling a lawnmower that won't start.

You said "I just happen to live in a country where most "impoverished" people have a home, refrigerator, stove, washer, dryer, color TV, a stereo, microwave, computer, dishwasher, and a car. Capitalism sure does suck for those poor impoverished people." Wow we must be neighbors.
The USA I live in is doing it's best to try and protect us from from these kind of exaggerated lies made to discredit what we still have to be proud of as US citizens. Of course these people are just following Obama's lead as he apologises to the world for our wicked country.

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"Gays are losing marriage rights"
Really? So, are you saying that it was perfectly legal in every state 10 years ago and all but a handfull have now removed laws that allow it? Seems to me you have it backwards....shoud read "gays are slowly gaining more and more marriage rights state by state."

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X - So, when Jersey defeated marriage equality, and people cheered and applauded, that was chill, right?

You have no problem that we are even voting on someone else's rights? The champion of "right to bear arms" doesn't defend the rights to be who you are and build your life they way you want?

My solution: don't vote on marriage equality. Legalize it federally, and be done with it. Who is complicating the simplicity of that? Oh, the conservatives are.

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Taskr - I am catching up to all the comments, and then I will tackle you on this one. I can find several. I don't just assume - before I even began at mylot, I was heavily involved in the no on 8 campaign.

X - Your entire post just sucked the humanity right out of you.

"Your entire post just sucked the humanity right out of you"
Really?
"I haven't voted anyone's "rights" away...how do you know what I vote for or lobby my state represenatives for? Just for the record (and as I stated before) I could care less who someone marries, it isn't any of my business, who am I to judge? "
yeh...that is pretty heartless and discriminitory isn't it.

Exactly how does this show you care about people:

If this is such a big issue for you and you cannot see any hope of effecting change in your own state on it...then for cripe sakes...move and quit whining about it.

Also, did I ever vote on your marriage? Forget the constitution, and answer that simple question. Was your marriage ever put up to vote? Don't answer me with some rhetoric about "my state does this and yours does that." Answer this cut and dry question.

Did anyone ever vote on your marriage?

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Thank you, sid, for the insight on that. It helps to tell people there are strong differences, and that a civil union is more like adopting a separate but almost equal policy.

Taskr - Here is Obama addressing the GLBT community at the Human Rights Campaign. I will be very honest with you about one thing, taskr. I was really disappointed when I found out you hadn't watched the Bowe Bergdahl video I had posted in that thread. You corresponded with me, and afterwards, told me you really didn't watch it. And, it saddened me, because your answers were just blind answers to me, and I thought we were actually moving past our differences there, and both saw something we agreed on, but by your not even watching it, it was hurtful and it stung that you would just respond without watching the information I am bringing.

I read everything you post, because, even though I disagree with you on 99.99% of everything, we are still corresponding with one another, and we are both people at different sides of the computer screen.

You discard most of what I post, but I am going to ask you watch this, and really let some of it soak in. I am not trying to pick a fight on this one. I genuinely want you to watch this in full.

I know Obama is selecting his words carefully, but he is doing his best to create equality for all our citizens.

Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leQarSfzT6A

Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhkrrjbPQtE

Part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdjJRBpKIHM

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X - Dr. King said, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

Your responses included, "it isn't my state and it isn't my business. Personaly I could care less who gets married to who."

"What "rights"? I see nothing in the constitution about the "right to marriage"

and

"If this is such a big issue for you and you cannot see any hope of effecting change in your own state on it...then for cripe sakes...move and quit whining about it."

You clutch that constitution that is over two centuries old, without allowing for any evolutionary progress, and everything you said was completely devoid of humanity.

Sometimes the world is rough. Sometimes you have a sh*t day and want to go home to a loved one. Sometimes you want to go and enjoy the finer comforts life has to offer, that are not specified by the constitution, but I think should be implied by "the pursuit to happiness". Like, a bag of potato chips, ice cream, a hobby, music, enjoying your life with your spouse, the invention of Johnny Depp, etc.

Everyone is entitled to experience the love and commitment and contractual agreements that come with a lawful marriage. Why create a separate and unequal distinction, when none is needed?

You think when it was up for vote in Jersey I shrugged it off? You think that I do nothing when all the other states are mistreating a whole group of people just because someone somehow constitutionally instilled intolerance and fear into the idiots and jerks voting away equal rights? You think I don't reach into my pocket book, or reach out to people about the topic? I do, but you think I shouldn't, because a piece of paper is more important to you than morality.

I couldn't ever be like that, X. I think you are smart, and I think you are passionate, and I think you put a lot of faith into the constitution. So much so, that you don't recognize how many people are deliberatly finding loopholes in it in order to achieve pretty horrid things.

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"You want one overreaching religion that controls everything and everyone according to your will."

Trying to turn that on me fails ladybug. I've made it abundantly clear that I want the government to stay out of my private life and allow me to make decisions for myself. I don't need them telling me what to eat, drink, or FORCING me to purchase health insurance under threat of fines and imprisonment. These are all things that you support. I've also made it more than clear that I prefer states to have appropriate sovereignty allowing different laws and levels of taxation so people can CHOOSE what state is the best fit for them and work to improve the state that they call home. It's far easier to improve things on a small scale first.

"The "state" vs "federal" law is a cop-out. What if Mississippi still voted on keeping slavery in place?"

Irrelevant. The US constitution forbids slavery. If I remember correctly Mississippi didn't officially ban it in the state until the early 90's because the constitution alone was sufficient. Of course if we ignored the constitution the way YOU want us too, then yeah, they could have still had slaves up till then.

"As for the salt"

Ladybug, it was a ban on the presence of ANY salt in restaurants. Regardless, do you think salt used when preparing food is the same as adding it at the table? Maybe you never cook, I'm not sure, but there is a HUGE difference. Try pouring salt on your pasta AFTER it's cooked and see if it tastes the same. Besides, we need salt to live. Sure, most people have too much, but if you have too little your health will suffer as well. If one restaurant uses too much salt, eat somewhere else or cook your own food. If you hate McDonald's ads, don't watch them. Feel free to protest the company and discourage others from eating their food.

You keep wanting the government involved in all these things because you don't want to think for yourself or don't want others to think for themselves.

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This link shows what they want to teach in schools. I will be awaiting your apology.

http://www.glsen.org/cgi-...

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She's got you there taskr. It's taken me a while to get caught up on all of the comments in this discussion but, since it is still fresh in my mind (because I just read that thread) I saw nothing in your comment that ladybug is referring to about INCESTUOUS relationships. Your comment was directed at homosexuals in general and I found you comment so offensive that I commented under it. I feel sorryf or your homosexual *friends*.

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OMg...is this still going? ROFL...wow
"he could marry a dog for all I care" (inferring this is similar to beastiality)"
Since he borrowed the phrase from me, I'll clarify....it means we dont give a flying fark who you marry. It has nothing to do with beastality...cripe, get over yourself aready..now your just looking for fights.

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Taskr -

Yes, I even said that it wasn't equal to abortion. It actually precedes abortion. If doctors and pharmacists refuse to even give information about emergency contraception due to religious/political beliefs, it makes it that much harder to get an abortion, if contraception is denied.

And, the morning after pill is not a pill that induces abortion. That pill has been banned in the united states, so religion should not have any role in this matter.

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Perhaps the negative responses come from the people who actually live here realizing that there's little truth in what's being said by the discussion starter.

Just a thought.

The negative responses are coming from a mix of people who dislike me for other comments in unrelated threads and are complete psychos, and the rest are coming from people too afraid to admit that everything I said is true.

"from people too afraid to admit that everything I said is true. "
ROFLMAO! Now THAT is narcisistic...and you were worried about ME getting a big head?

..."people who dislike me for other comments in unrelated threads and are complete psychos" I have heard that one of the first signs of insanity is when an insane person thinks that everyone else is insane (or psychos) and they are the only one who is normal/sane! IMO the very nature of this discussion and every long, long detailed comment from the originator (ladybugmagic) are the raving of a person with serious mental problems fixating on the USA. Anyone who has donated so much time bashing this country in such exaggerated detail need to get medical health perhaps Obama Health Care will treat is a a preexisting condition.

One of the psychos just responded.

Thank you matersfish. I am trying not to take any side in this, I can't form an opinion on a country I have never even visited. However, does a discussion always have to be about a single truth? Or about truth all together. When we are discussing opinions I don't think there is a real right and wrong. The way this discussion is written it looks like a statement, and that's daring and people might be offended by that. The only thing that bothers me is that Mylot should be about discussing and not about the argues that we find in this discussion. There is no point in posting topics or responses if all we do is fight over them; hence the complete point of mylot is gone.

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Cyberfluf, I don't disagree with that in the least.

I can only say that, for myself and other proud Americans who responded to ladybug's posts in a snappy, defensive fashion, the negative, blame-someone-else mentality and the gross exaggeration of events stifles real debate before it begins.

The post was an accusation - not a discussion-starting opinion. It was a flame-fest, with one implication: My (ladybug) country is horrible, I hate it, and it's all the fault of people who don't think like I do.

There are some points in there that are well worth debating in a civil manner, but when someone reads the phrasing, odds are they're not going to attempt to redirect the conversation to ubercivility. They're probably going to react in kind.

A lot of folks living in America hear this type of hateful rhetoric thrown at them on a daily basis. They're blamed for these same things listed and much more. There's no real evidence at all to prove it true - mostly just loose conspiracy drivel. So I personally don't blame folks for fighting back in this thread, although I do take your point.

Oh bestboy19 you and ladybugmagic must live in the same country.
I am so happy to tell you I live in the USA where we the people do out best to protect ourselves from every having to live in such a dreadful place as you do!

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"Those gang members participating in random shootings are more often than not adorned with tattoos of jesus christ or mother mary."

Keep making crap up Ladybug. Why is the truth such an enemy to you? Have you ever SEEN an actual gang member, and no, popular TV shows and movies don't count.

"You do realize, in some states, their drinking water is flammable?"

Not in entire states, only in very specific locations and it has only been found in well water, NOT municipal water supplies. The reports I've read have shown that the water tested had methane, which is not toxic or dangerous in drinking water. Remember, we eat and drink flammable food and liquid all the time.

"abortive procedures are often times inaccessible, thereby making it legal in name only"

Yeah, just keep spreading that lie. Nobody's buying it.

"three college kids posing as the press got there quicker than any of our country’s emergency response did."

Prove it.

"You say we’re a loving and charitable country. It's a shame you don't know our country."

Show me ONE COUNTRY that has been more charitable to Africa, Haiti, Palestinians (who still want us dead) or any of the disaster struck countries out there.

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I am going to take you up on each challenge, taskr - I would like until this weekend, because I am making my way through everyone's responses, and have other threads I started and haven't even hit yet. My fans are waiting.

But I will prove you wrong.

And, we may have to come to an agreement that we are both right in some situations.

....."My fans are waiting. " Too funny! Other patients in the asylum who play lbm's crazy game (The Fantasy World of a Poisonous Bug).

America is a wonderful place to live in. But I must first clarify and say that the bad people make America look bad.. People that just want to cause so much trouble makes the world less appealing.

I appreciate your post and your honesty. It's tough, when the majority are opposing this stance, but, in most cases, they prefer denial than to allow the reality of this to really sink in. I think it is hitting, in that my ranking in the politics thread has plummeted so low.

The negative ratings I got, I will take as a negative rating against the scenarios which I have outlined. My opposition obviously doesn't like the scenarios I outlined, and, rather than agreeing with me outright, they accuse me of either lying or America-bashing, and silently agree with me by voting me negative, projecting their anger, because it is easier to remain self-righteous than to admit anything is wrong.

I'd be horrified if I lived in a country that embodies all of the things I listed in the scenario. And, I do live in that country. So do the rest of these posters, but, only I am the one admitting it.

Our country really is horrible I guess. That's why people risk dying of dehydration trekking through the desert to get out. Many people even float through treacherous waters on makeshift rafts with their small children in the hopes of escaping our evil shores for a better life. Oh... wait... my bad. They go through all that to get IN to our country. Hmmm... just doesn't seem right does it?

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I will be proving you wrong, taskr. I will gather links and post them this weekend.

Okay, I guess, I am far more of a capitolist, then I ever imagined.

First, Liberals and progressives are trying their best to ban lobbyists - this is a BAD Lobbyists, and lobbyist groups, are there to inform the government of their funders position. That is all they do, they inform, debate and encourage. Does this mean the group with the most money wins. Usually. Not always, though, and when push comes to shove, people that act in violation of the rights of others always get it in the end.

Second, I have read a lot about Gun Control. Read a lot like the campaigns that got A. Hitler elected into office in the 1930's, just saying. Research, I could be wrong I frequently am.

Innovation comes from necessity, necessity comes from poverty. If people aren't happy being poor they will do something about, America, and Canada are the best two places on the planet for that. For that matter, if anyone is interested, I can help you earn an extra paycheck every week, working 7-10 hours a week, inside of 2 years, you could quit whatever job isn't paying your bills for you, and all you have to two, is make friends, and help others succeed at making friends.

Capitalism, brought the USA into existence, it worked quite well then. It has been all the reform since, that is slowly wrecking the place. I won't touch the religious or minority thing much. That is something to do with people, not the government, no amount of government control or regulation or law, will stop people that are racist from being racist. Proper education, and ingraining an attitude of tolerance will, best learned in the Church that.

One way or another, you are all trying to force your opinions down the throats of others, backing it up with information gathered specifically for the purpose of shutting down the other party. So, providing a link to a video or news article will not work, because if a conservative wants a story, they pay someone to make it a conservative friendly story, or a liberal hate like story. Same with the Liberals, or Greens, or NDPs, or the Bloc. (The last few are Canadian political parties)

Follow the money, with the money, you can publicize any "information" you want, in any light to want, anywhere you want.

With appreciation.